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September Sizzling Summer Segway

Almost tropical-like showers out this morning. Was watching one move off to the north
 
Dewpoint Dan said:
Rates do overcome all. But i do believe that the snow melts quicker after the snow has fallen if ground temps are warm.
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I think you’re right especially if it’s a marginal type setup with temperatures right around or couple degrees above freezing. What absolutely cracks me up is when I hear a local met giving a snow forecast in the winter and saying something like “it will take a while for the snow to stick because of the recent mild temperatures” even though they might be forecasting temps to be in the 20s... even though we’ve all seen it time and time again that higher rates will stick no matter the ground temp
 
EmersonGA said:
Can what is happening in Denver finally put an end to the ground temps arguement? Rates overcome all.
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No, you can see what effect the ground temps had on the snowfall in Denver already. The streets are already dry and even mulch surfaces are only wet the morning after the snow ended overnight. Needless to say, there would’ve been more accumulation and much greater impacts if it wasn’t 100 degrees there a couple days ago. We in the Raleigh area got a taste of what warm ground temps can do this past February. It doesn’t prevent accumulation, but it can definitely slow it down and make it so it melts much more quickly afterwards.
 
superjames1992 said:
No, you can see what effect the ground temps had on the snowfall in Denver already. The streets are already dry and even mulch surfaces are only wet the morning after the snow ended overnight. Needless to say, there would’ve been more accumulation and much greater impacts if it wasn’t 100 degrees there a couple days ago. We in the Raleigh area got a taste of what warm ground temps can do this past February. It doesn’t prevent accumulation, but it can definitely slow it down and make it so it melts much more quickly afterwards.
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Yeah, good post. I'm not sure why this is a debate every year. Ground temps can absolutely matter. Lots of things matter: Magnitude of the ground temps, air temp while and after snowfall, amount of snowfall, rate of snowfall, nighttime vs. daytime, sun angle...all of it matters to varying degrees. And one variable can offset or enhance the impact of other variables....not to mention the context of what one talking about WHEN discussing how much it matters. Are you saying snowfall can or can't accumulate with a warm ground? Are we talking amounts of accumulation? Are we talking duration of the snowfall on the ground? All of that matters to the conversation.
 
superjames1992 said:
No, you can see what effect the ground temps had on the snowfall in Denver already. The streets are already dry and even mulch surfaces are only wet the morning after the snow ended overnight. Needless to say, there would’ve been more accumulation and much greater impacts if it wasn’t 100 degrees there a couple days ago. We in the Raleigh area got a taste of what warm ground temps can do this past February. It doesn’t prevent accumulation, but it can definitely slow it down and make it so it melts much more quickly afterwards.
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I don't disagree that it has an effect. My argument is that snow can still accumulate even in summer. When I got a foot in December 17 I could have easily had 18"+ if the ground was not wet and warm.
 
12z GFS delayed. Have I ever mentioned the GFS Para is my favorite model? I mean it’s an older run but good grief it’s glorious.


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ATLwxfan said:
12z GFS delayed. Have I ever mentioned the GFS Para is my favorite model? I mean it’s an older run but good grief it’s glorious.


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*step away from the window**
You can’t have that just yet lol.


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superjames1992 said:
No, you can see what effect the ground temps had on the snowfall in Denver already. The streets are already dry and even mulch surfaces are only wet the morning after the snow ended overnight. Needless to say, there would’ve been more accumulation and much greater impacts if it wasn’t 100 degrees there a couple days ago. We in the Raleigh area got a taste of what warm ground temps can do this past February. It doesn’t prevent accumulation, but it can definitely slow it down and make it so it melts much more quickly afterwards.
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I agree with this. While its obviously true you can get some accumulation with warm ground temps, I don't think there's any doubt it can greatly limit accumulation. If rates are high enough, they can ovecome melting rates and cool the ground down, but it will melt as that's happening and can greatly reduce the total accumulation. For me, March 09 is all the evidence I need. Hours of thundersnow yeilded just 4.5 inches with a warm ground and air temp of 34. It's not just an either/or answer.
 
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