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Misc All Things Religious

Iceagewhereartthou said:
Some excellent questions. I put in a few thoughts above. There are also some great videos on some of these questions by much wiser theologians than me. Try some Ravi Zacharias, Vince Vitale, Frank Turek q&a on Youtube.
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I listen to Ravi Zacharias every week. "Let my people think" is a wonderful program. This guy is probably the most educated man I have ever heard when it comes to the argument of atheism vs. Christianity.
 
Poimen said:
I understand how you feel and there are plenty who view Revelation as you. But please understand that I have studied the book in depth, both academically and as a pastor/teacher. Through my education and continual learning, I have become settled on what I said above, though I was much like you once upon a time.

Revelation is classic Jewish apocalyptic literature, which uses symbols to convey the message of hope and final victory while describing the ongoing battle between the forces of good/evil. The symbolism in the book had to have been understandable to John's original audience. The entire book is written first and foremost to them:

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. " Rev. 1:1-3.

When John wrote Revelation, he sent it to the seven churches, where it would be read aloud to each congregation. This was standard practice when an apostle sent correspondence to churches. It is clear from the prologue that John intended the entire book/letter to be read and understood by the churches. We cannot, we must not, begin to interpret any part of the book until we first wrestle with what it meant to the original audience. Failure to do this is a failure of fundamental biblical hermeneutics.

I could go on at length, but I will stop here.
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I am fully aware of what you are saying. I agree with you on one part, Revelation is classic Jewish apocalyptic literature. However, we disagree on the time-frame for the events that are described in the Book. Please tell me when did the the 21 judgments occur? When was the anti-Christ here. "Mark of the Beast"? Don't give me that old argument about Nero being the anti-Christ. It doesn't fit with the whole "right-hand" and "forehead" mark that had to be received in order to buy and sell. When did the 1000 year reign of Christ occur? I don't remember a thousand year period of no Satan. I will not convince you, but just listen to Dr Jimmy DeYoung lay out the time-table for the book of the Revelation. It might just open up your eyes to a few things.
 
LithiaWx said:
If god is real why would he allow pandemics? Hurricanes?
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A few years back my cousins fiancee died suddenly 2 days before xmas. At the wake a woman told my cousin not to forget that everything god does he does because he loves her. So while god ignored their prayers for him to get over his severe cold were ignored and he later died in his sleep it was all because he loved my cousin. Such bologne.

My anger was hard to contain.
 
Poimen said:
Here’s one note about death that is often overlooked from a Christian perspective: Death is, in my view, a gracious gift from God. Adam and Eve had access to the “tree of life”, but their access was cutoff after the fall. On one hand that was a consequence of their rebellion. But on the other hand it was a gracious gift in that they would not have to suffer in this fallen world forever. Furthermore, God’s Grace is seen in that he provides access to the tree of life once more through faith in Christ (Rev.2:7).
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I can’t really agree with that either. Sure we can have no fear of death because of Christ and I don’t fear death but I don’t know about you, I’d much rather go the way of Enoch or Elijah than have to face the feeling of my mortal body faltering. I have a feeling Adam and Eve and every one else would rather go that route as well. Death is a punishment. Death is the final enemy a Christian will face, but as Paul states that enemy will be swallowed up in victory.
 
Shaggy said:
A few years back my cousins fiancee died suddenly 2 days before xmas. At the wake a woman told my cousin not to forget that everything god does he does because he loves her. So while god ignored their prayers for him to get over his severe cold were ignored and he later died in his sleep it was all because he loved my cousin. Such bologne.

My anger was hard to contain.
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Actually she was right.

My father died when I was eight months old in a word accident, leaving my mother a widow having only been married around a year and myself no father. She could have hated God for his death and so on. Later she remarried and the man who became my father is one of the reasons I am the man I am today. Knowing things about my birth father, his family and my own faults, I can imagine the person I would be if my father didn’t die and raised me.

So in effect, the gain for my life and her life was far greater, Although as the time it was tragic.
 
Arcc said:
I can’t really agree with that either. Sure we can have no fear of death because of Christ and I don’t fear death but I don’t know about you, I’d much rather go the way of Enoch or Elijah than have to face the feeling of my mortal body faltering. I have a feeling Adam and Eve and every one else would rather go that route as well. Death is a punishment. Death is the final enemy a Christian will face, but as Paul states that enemy will be swallowed up in victory.
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I don't deny that it is part of God's judgment. However, keep in mind that God's judgment is always joined with his grace. This is best illustrated in the cross, where God's judgment is poured out upon Christ, but at the same time his grace is poured out as well--offering eternal life for all who believe in Christ's atoning sacrifice and resurrection.

We all would like to live without facing death--but we must because that is the consequence of the fall. But praise be to God that death releases us from the curse of this fallen world. I would much rather die than to face eternity in toil and sweat on this broken planet. So in that sense, death is a part of God's grace.
 
Poimen said:
I don't deny that it is part of God's judgment. However, keep in mind that God's judgment is always joined with his grace. This is best illustrated in the cross, where God's judgment is poured out upon Christ, but at the same time his grace is poured out as well--offering eternal life for all who believe in Christ's atoning sacrifice and resurrection.

We all would like to live without facing death--but we must because that is the consequence of the fall. But praise be to God that death releases us from the curse of this fallen world. I would much rather die than to face eternity in toil and sweat on this broken planet. So in that sense, death is a part of God's grace.
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I agree with that, but I don’t see it as a gift. The fact that death is a paper tiger knowing it’s power has been broken through Christ though is the blessing. If God sees fit to give me a gift and take me without death through his return, I’d much rather take that road.
 
There is only ONE way to heaven.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes unto the father except through me. John 14:6

Gods word is very clear on that.

GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION. 1st Corinthians 14:33

Doesnt matter what NCSNOW thinks, says. Or for that matter theologians, pastors , etc. What the Bible says, is All that matters. Its Gods holy word. We cant and shouldnt be changing it, misrepresenting it to fit our lifestyle. What we need to do is change our lifestyle to fit it.
Man is warned not to add or take anything from Gods word. Gods word is the final authority. It is the absolute. Has and will always continue to stand the test of time.
 
Today is marked on the calendar as Earth Day!
"Let Everything Praise The Lord"
Psalms chapter 104 says:

You fixed the earth on its foundation,

so it can never be shaken.

6The deeps covered it like a garment;

above the mountains stood the waters.

7At your rebuke they took flight;

at the sound of your thunder they fled.c

8They rushed up the mountains, down the valleys

to the place you had fixed for them.

9You set a limit they cannot pass;

never again will they cover the earth.d

III
10You made springs flow in wadies

that wind among the mountains.

11They give drink to every beast of the field;e

here wild asses quench their thirst.

12Beside them the birds of heaven nest;

among the branches they sing.

13You water the mountains from your chambers;

from the fruit of your labor the earth abounds.

14You make the grass grow for the cattle

and plants for people’s work

to bring forth food from the earth,

15wine to gladden their hearts,

oil to make their faces shine,

and bread to sustain the human heart.

16*The trees of the LORD drink their fill,

the cedars of Lebanon, which you planted.

17There the birds build their nests;

the stork in the junipers, its home.f

18The high mountains are for wild goats;

the rocky cliffs, a refuge for badgers.

IV
19You made the moon to mark the seasons,g

the sun that knows the hour of its setting.

20You bring darkness and night falls,

then all the animals of the forest wander about.

21Young lions roar for prey;

they seek their food from God.h

22When the sun rises, they steal away

and settle down in their dens.

23People go out to their work,

to their labor till evening falls.

V
24How varied are your works, LORD!

In wisdom you have made them all;

the earth is full of your creatures.i

25There is the sea, great and wide!

It teems with countless beings,

living things both large and small.j

26There ships ply their course

and Leviathan,* whom you formed to play with.k

VI
27All of these look to you

to give them food in due time.l

28When you give it to them, they gather;

when you open your hand, they are well filled.

29*When you hide your face, they panic.

Take away their breath, they perish

and return to the dust.m

30Send forth your spirit, they are created

and you renew the face of the earth
 
But I have yet to encounter KJV only person who stays in the debate to the end. So you’d be the first. But I’d be happy to take you on.
 
Poimen said:
But I have yet to encounter KJV only person who stays in the debate to the end. So you’d be the first. But I’d be happy to take you on.
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If you remember, our original debate was the time-table for the Book of the Revelation, not whether or not current events (such as the Corona virus) were mentioned in that book. By the way, I believe any other translation takes something away from the true meaning of God's Word.
 
Cad Wedge NC said:
If you remember, our original debate was the time-table for the Book of the Revelation, not whether or not current events (such as the Corona virus) were mentioned in that book. By the way, I believe any other translation takes something away from the true meaning of God's Word.
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Two things: this wasn’t posted as part of our debate.

You responded to my post with “It’s not KJV.” I’ve been around enough people like you to know what that means.

If you think the KJV is the only true version of God’s Word I have zero respect for you because you have absolutely no clue what you’re even talking about. KJV onlyism is one of the nastiest heresies on this side of the cross and it represent a gross misunderstanding of how the Scriptures have been handed down to us.

You introduced this topic. Not me. But if you think you can go toe to toe with me then bring it. But I have no sympathy for your ilk and you will lose, or repent. Your choice.
 
Poimen said:
Two things: this wasn’t posted as part of our debate.

You responded to my post with “It’s not KJV.” I’ve been around enough people like you to know what that means.

If you think the KJV is the only true version of God’s Word I have zero respect for you because you have absolutely no clue what you’re even talking about. KJV onlyism is one of the nastiest heresies on this side of the cross and it represent a gross misunderstanding of how the Scriptures have been handed down to us.

You introduced this topic. Not me. But if you think you can go toe to toe with me then bring it. But I have no sympathy for your ilk and you will lose, or repent. Your choice.
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Turn the other cheek, my friend ... ;)
 
Poimen said:
Two things: this wasn’t posted as part of our debate.

You responded to my post with “It’s not KJV.” I’ve been around enough people like you to know what that means.

If you think the KJV is the only true version of God’s Word I have zero respect for you because you have absolutely no clue what you’re even talking about. KJV onlyism is one of the nastiest heresies on this side of the cross and it represent a gross misunderstanding of how the Scriptures have been handed down to us.

You introduced this topic. Not me. But if you think you can go toe to toe with me then bring it. But I have no sympathy for your ilk and you will lose, or repent. Your choice.
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Getting mighty defensive about those other interpretations aren't we? My grandfather was a Southern Baptist pastor for many years. The KJV was the only Bible we knew growing up. We understood it just fine even as children. Why do we think that it doesn't work now? Just a question....
 
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