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Misc All Things Religious

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pcbjr said:
Turn the other cheek, my friend ... ;)
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I would love to, but this is serious business. At it's core, KJV onlysim is a distortion of the gospel--It's Jesus plus something else for salvation.
 
Poimen said:
I would love to, but this is serious business. At it's core, KJV onlysim is a distortion of the gospel--It's Jesus plus something else for salvation.
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I will not debate theology ... but Jesus did have and leave us something else for salvation in addition to Him ... a free will and 2 primary commandments
 
Cad Wedge NC said:
Getting mighty defensive about those other interpretations aren't we? My grandfather was a Southern Baptist pastor for many years. The KJV was the only Bible we knew growing up. We understood it just fine even as children. Why do we think that it doesn't work now? Just a question....
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If I am defensive about anything it is about the purity of the gospel. KJV onlysim is a gross distortion of the gospel. It's the same kind of problem that Paul talks about in Galatians 1:8-9 KJV:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

I have no problem with the KJV or people who use the KJV. I think the KJV is a wonderful translation. The problem is when people assert that the KJV is the only true version of God's Word.
 
pcbjr said:
I will not debate theology ... but Jesus did have and leave us something else for salvation in addition to Him ... a free will and 3 primary commandments
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Sorry, but salvation is a matter of faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone. And if I may add, whether he was consciously doing it or not, his original remark to me, "It's not KJV"... insinuates that I am not a true Christian, because I have distorted God's Word.

This isn't my first rodeo with this stuff or people like him. I will defend the Gospel with my life. It is that important.
 
Poimen said:
Sorry, but salvation is a matter of faith alone in Christ alone by grace alone. And if I may add, whether he was consciously doing it or not, his original remark to me, "It's not KJV"... insinuates that I am not a true Christian, because I have distorted God's Word.

This isn't my first rodeo with this stuff or people like him. I will defend the Gospel with my life. It is that important.
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That is a lot of words to put in someone’s mouth for a sentence.
 
Poimen said:
Again, this is not my first experience with this topic.
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Maybe not, but it isn’t the same person you have discussed with either. I use the KJV myself, but I have no issue with some of the other versions and those that read them. Now some versions are watered down garbage. In fact several of my favorite radio preachers use different versions. You and I could use a different version and come to different conclusions on certain scriptures yet agree on the person of Christ and his plan for salvation.
 
Arcc said:
Maybe not, but it isn’t the same person you have discussed with either. I use the KJV myself, but I have no issue with some of the other versions and those that read them. Now some versions are watered down garbage. In fact several of my favorite radio preachers use different versions. You and I could use a different version and come to different conclusions on certain scriptures yet agree on the person of Christ and his plan for salvation.
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Like I said before, I love the KJV. The KJ is a wonderful translation. But there are many other wonderful translations out there--and yes there are some that are not so good.

The problem is when the KJV Only people insist that it is the only true version of God's Word. You would be shocked to see some of the KJV Only literature that has been mailed to me--always anonymously by the way--over the years, only because I don't preach from the KJ.
 
Poimen said:
Like I said before, I love the KJV. The KJ is a wonderful translation. But there are many other wonderful translations out there--and yes there are some that are not so good.

The problem is when the KJV Only people insist that it is the only true version of God's Word. You would be shocked to see some of the KJV Only literature that has been mailed to me--always anonymously by the way--over the years, only because I don't preach from the KJ.
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I’m sure that is the case, I’ve heard it myself somewhat. However you can believe the KJV is the best and proper translation yet still count brothers and sisters in Christ from those who don’t.
 
I use KJV, mostly because its what Im used to. Just prefer. But I scan ,quote and use em all when thumbing around ,prepping for teaching etc.
No desire to get into this debate, as I deem it really a waste of time. I see both points of view. The NIV translation leaves out 16 (I beleive verses) . All New Testament and has them in its footnotes.
And the point Poimen is probably trying to make is safeguarding against legalism. Which represents a pharisee/scribe vibe.
The Gospel is a clear cut gift from God full of grace and mercy.
We would all be better served in this thread pointing out the message of Gods word [Creation,Gospel,Prophecy,life application etc].
In fairness to Cadwedge he is being cautious probably because of this statement.
"It is difficult to trust the NIV in all instances because of certain prejudices on the part of the translators. It should be compared to the KJV and several other translations to assure accuracy. It is, as you note, much easier to read in many cases and even helps clarify the Old English language. In the final analysis, a person can use almost any translation of the Bible and, if enough attention is paid, find the truth."
Hope that helps both my brothers.
 
Guys I would just urge all of you to keep the true reason for the Bible in mind; to teach us about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and what a Godly life is about. The sacrifice of Jesus is what has cleansed our sin and reunites us with God. I think if one starts to insist one translation is necessary (over another) as part of salvation the door is opened for some very serious issues with legalism and multiple other theological risks of the missing the boat. I don't think God is going to ask us which translation we ascribed to, how old we thought the Earth was, or if we were baptized with full emersion or not to decide if we will spend eternity with him. Don't lose the forest for the trees.
 
NCSNOW said:
I use KJV, mostly because its what Im used to. Just prefer. But I scan ,quote and use em all when thumbing around ,prepping for teaching etc.
No desire to get into this debate, as I deem it really a waste of time. I see both points of view. The NIV translation leaves out 16 (I beleive verses) . All New Testament and has them in its footnotes.
And the point Poimen is probably trying to make is safeguarding against legalism. Which represents a pharisee/scribe vibe.
The Gospel is a clear cut gift from God full of grace and mercy.
We would all be better served in this thread pointing out the message of Gods word [Creation,Gospel,Prophecy,life application etc].
In fairness to Cadwedge he is being cautious probably because of this statement.
"It is difficult to trust the NIV in all instances because of certain prejudices on the part of the translators. It should be compared to the KJV and several other translations to assure accuracy. It is, as you note, much easier to read in many cases and even helps clarify the Old English language. In the final analysis, a person can use almost any translation of the Bible and, if enough attention is paid, find the truth."
Hope that helps both my brothers.
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I know you said you didn't want to get into the debate, and I want to honor that. I just want to make a couple points related to your post (not directed at you).

KJV advocates make this claim against all modern translations. It's the KJ vs. the rest. And yes, there are verses in the KJ that you will not find in the modern translations. And so what we hear from the KJV only crowd is "they are taking away from God's Word." In actuality, it may very well be that the KJV has added to God's Word. The issue (and this is just one issue in the entire debate) is that the modern translations are based on a different set of manuscripts. Since the KJ was firs translated (400 years ago, mind you), archaeologists have uncovered thousands of additional Greek manuscripts of the NT, which were written much closer to the NT period--i.e. 2nd and 3rd century. The manuscripts used by the KJ translators date to about 900-1000 A.D. In almost every instance of these so called "missing verses," it is very likely that Scribes who copied the manuscripts used by the KJ, attempted to harmonize certain passages by adding a word or a sentence (this was a common practice by Scribes who would usually make a note in the copy when they did this). Anyone who is fair minded and is willing to examine the evidence will admit this. Even with these differences, there is absolutely no critical theological doctrine that is affected.

Every translation from the manuscript to the modern language is susceptible to certain prejudices that creep into the translation. Every translation committee has to make choices on how best to render certain passages and at times the line between translation and interpretation becomes blurred. This was even the case for the KJ committee. They even recognized this and admitted as such in the preface to the original 1611 translation. They even wrote that all other English translations that came before the KJ qualified as "God's Word." They also included notes in the margins of the 1611, where translation difficulties were apparent. They made no claim whatsoever to being supernaturally inspired by God to write the only infallible English translation.

Recognizing the manuscript difficulties that I outlined above, some KJ only advocates go so far as to say that God inspired the actual English translation of the KJ. That claim is absolutely absurd and hardly worth repudiating. But it is what it is. We believe that God's Word is innerant/infallible in the original autographs--that is, the apostles who wrote the original letters/documents were inspired. We don't have those original autographs--but we have so many manuscripts that we know with relative certainty what was written in those original copies.
 
Good post Poimen. You are correct,didnt want go into the detail you laid out. Again its a fruitless topic. Just trying to show the points of view from both sides, as I agree im not a kjv only.
Want to get definite then maybe we should be a Greek,/Hebrew only lol. Hope that helps and appreciate you typing up the response.
 
Heres a quick devotion I was reading at desk during break. Goes well with iceagewhereartthou post above.

The Saddest Goose
Adam R. Holz
Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken. Ecclesiastes 4:12

Ecclesiastes 4:9–12

2 Samuel 16–18; Luke 17:20–37

Why is there a football in the parking lot? I wondered. But as I got closer, I realized the greyish lump wasn’t a football: it was a goose—the saddest Canada goose I’d ever seen.
Geese often congregate on the lawn near my workplace in the spring and fall. But today there was only one, its neck arced back and its head tucked beneath a wing. Where are your buddies? I thought. Poor thing was all alone. It looked so lonely, I wanted to give it a hug. (Note: don’t try this.)
I’ve rarely seen a goose completely alone like my lonesome feathered friend. Geese are notably communal, flying in a V-formation to deflect the wind. They’re made to be together.
As human beings, we were created for community too (see Genesis 2:18). And in Ecclesiastes 4:10, Solomon describes how vulnerable we are when we’re alone: “Pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up.” There’s strength in numbers, he added, for “though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken” (v. 12).
This is just as true for us spiritually as it is physically. God never intended for us to “fly” alone, vulnerably isolated. We need relationships with each other for encouragement, refreshment, and growth (see also 1 Corinthians 12:21).
Together, we can stand firm when life’s headwinds gust our way. Together.
What kinds of circumstances tempt you to go it alone? Who do you know who could use a word of encouragement from you?
 
I see you are an "Our Daily Bread" reader as well. I like to read and study it each day during my lunch hour whether in my office or now working from home. I find it well done with good insights supported by the daily scripture.
 
Came across some good info in a study for myself. As a lay person , SS teacher. So critical that I make sure to be in line with Gods word and will, not mine when teaching, witnessing,or just engaging in water cooler talk.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Matthew 7:15-16
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...
Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Hebrews 13:5-6
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
2 Peter 2:1-2
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 John 1:9-11
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
1 Timothy 3:1-16
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? ...
Hebrews 13:5
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Jude 1:4
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
 
NCSNOW said:
Came across some good info in a study for myself. As a lay person , SS teacher. So critical that I make sure to be in line with Gods word and will, not mine when teaching, witnessing,or just engaging in water cooler talk.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Matthew 7:15-16
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...
Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Hebrews 13:5-6
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
2 Peter 2:1-2
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 John 1:9-11
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
1 Timothy 3:1-16
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? ...
Hebrews 13:5
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Jude 1:4
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
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AMEN TO THAT!
I also am convicted by James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
 
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