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Tropical Major Hurricane Irma (Part 1)

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In so many ways, watching these models and reading comments (which is a very delightful thing to do, and I thank you all), reminds me of picking a jury - you just don't know what you have until 6 are in the box, and then and only then can you watch facial expressions as the evidence comes in and get a good read on where it's all going ... right now, we're still in voir dire stage ...
 
In so many ways, watching these models and reading comments (which is a very delightful thing to do, and I thank you all), reminds me of picking a jury - you just don't know what you have until 6 are in the box, and then and only then can you watch facial expressions as the evidence comes in and get a good read on where it's all going ...
I was selected to sit on a jury for a rape case. It was an amazing experiece

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But they are putting the eggs in a basket of a few southern ensemble members . I dont get how a few members gives weight to the euro ops idea when 60 percent of the ensembles are NW of the OP

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The GFS has a notorious poleward bias in this part of the Atlantic and even though it's been analyzing the intensity correctly (@ least more so than the Euro) it's been verifying way too north even in the short term. NCEP's utilization of "vortex bogusing" to allow the GFS model to properly initialize Irma's intensity is advantageous in that it gets somewhat close to the intensity (as close as it can w/ its resolution), however they insert a "fake" idealistic, vortex into the model that can differ appreciably from reality so caution should be urged here. It also should be noted that the HWRF (which also tends to have a large poleward bias with east Atlantic TCs) is actually on the southwestern most portion of the NWP guidance envelope... Regardless, once we get recon data assimilated into the models and as this grows in size once it closes in on the Lesser Antilles, the global models will have an easier time resolving it & thus forecast confidence will increase. (the increase in size will receive contributions from the increasing upper level moisture content, lowering background MSLP, and potential for more eyewall replacement cycles that usually result in a broadening of the TC's wind and pressure field). The NHC is also using experience with these situations in that the intensity of the subtropical ridge is often underestimated (as we saw during Hurricane Ike (of course improvements have been made since) & how the storm has verified so far against the guidance, which for the most part has been well south & stronger than advertised...
 
So glad to hear that - it should be - it's the foundation of our society in so many ways ... ;)
Now - on to weather ... :cool:

What's the best way to get out of it. As an independent contractor I would take a huge hit in income should I be selected in the future.


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The GFS has a notorious poleward bias in this part of the Atlantic and even though it's been analyzing the intensity correctly (@ least more so than the Euro) it's been verifying way too north even in the short term. NCEP's utilization of "vortex bogusing" to allow the GFS model to properly initialize Irma's intensity is advantageous in that it gets somewhat close to the intensity (as close as it can w/ its resolution), however they insert a "fake" idealistic, vortex into the model that can differ appreciably from reality so caution should be urged here. It also should be noted that the HWRF (which also tends to have a large poleward bias with east Atlantic TCs) is actually on the southwestern most portion of the NWP guidance envelope... Regardless, once we get recon data assimilated into the models and as this grows in size once it closes in on the Lesser Antilles, the global models will have an easier time resolving it & thus forecast confidence will increase. (the increase in size will receive contributions from the increasing upper level moisture content, lowering background MSLP, and potential for more eyewall replacement cycles that usually result in a broadening of the TC's wind and pressure field). The NHC is also using experience with these situations in that the intensity of the subtropical ridge is often underestimated (as we saw during Hurricane Ike (of course improvements have been made since) & how the storm has verified so far against the guidance, which for the most part has been well south & stronger than advertised...
I remember a while back you talkimg about the atlantic risge and models often under forecasting the strength. If thats the case a euro solution is for sure possible. Good point about them using past history ans expsrience .

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The GFS has a notorious poleward bias in this part of the Atlantic and even though it's been analyzing the intensity correctly (@ least more so than the Euro) it's been verifying way too north even in the short term. NCEP's utilization of "vortex bogusing" to allow the GFS model to properly initialize Irma's intensity is advantageous in that it gets somewhat close to the intensity (as close as it can w/ its resolution), however they insert a "fake" idealistic, vortex into the model that can differ appreciably from reality so caution should be urged here. It also should be noted that the HWRF (which also tends to have a large poleward bias with east Atlantic TCs) is actually on the southwestern most portion of the NWP guidance envelope... Regardless, once we get recon data assimilated into the models and as this grows in size once it closes in on the Lesser Antilles, the global models will have an easier time resolving it & thus forecast confidence will increase. (the increase in size will receive contributions from the increasing upper level moisture content, lowering background MSLP, and potential for more eyewall replacement cycles that usually result in a broadening of the TC's wind and pressure field). The NHC is also using experience with these situations in that the intensity of the subtropical ridge is often underestimated (as we saw during Hurricane Ike (of course improvements have been made since) & how the storm has verified so far against the guidance, which for the most part has been well south & stronger than advertised...
Man you beat me to it but you said it far more eloquently and intelligently than I ever could

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But they are putting the eggs in a basket of a few southern ensemble members . I dont get how a few members gives weight to the euro ops idea when 60 percent of the ensembles are NW of the OP

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I don't see an issue through d5 you have the cmc and it's ensembles along with the euro and eps versus the gfs suit. I'll take the former any day. Regardless of where the storm is at d5 the forecast challenge and divergence occurs post d5 and how the continental pattern sets up. You really start to get into s myriad of possibilities once this is in or just north of the islands and you could take and pull a book of analogs and have support for them all.

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The euro is just usually a superior model so I really can't blame them

I still remember when it was alone having Joaquin stay out to sea while the gfs and its models slammed the us for days...

What's weird here is it being the doomier model that's unusual

I wouldn't be surprised if it goes ots either honestly but it's just the gfs usually doesn't win these
 
Eric explained it much more detailed than I would have. I agree with the NHC/Euro idea because the ridge is likely stronger than what the GFS thinks at this range.. to sum it up.
 
When I said we were in trouble earlier today I wasn't just trying to be cute. obviously the odds almost always favor an out to sea track given the current position. However once you account for the wsw then west track you get into a much more favorable area for a US strike. On top of that you have a trough lifting out of the eastern us and not beating down the atlantic ridge. This would at minimum favor something butt clinching close to the eastern sea board and Bahamas. In an extreme scenario you get the trough fracture and absorbing of the gulf disturbance like the Euro which would further pump heights off the EC and allow the system to have a potential double Florida landfall or even a south of Fl into the central gulf.

I personally think the pattern off of the EC is too stout to write this off as an out to sea solution l. Sure, it could hook NE and go harmlessly into the atlantic but I think attention needs to be paid when at d11 or so


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The euro's downfall here is how it's not initializing the vortex properly (way too weak). Intensity errors feedback onto the track and mid latitude steering flow because as i mentioned earlier as a storm strengthens, it's rossby penetration depth becomes deeper, with the cyclonic circulation extending deeper in the column and the level of non divergence (where the circulation goes from cyclonic to anticyclonic) and thus it's steered by a deeper layer of the atmosphere. A stronger storm produces more heating that is more apt to push TUTTs out of the way and pump the heights particularly in the wake of the storm because the TUTTs that feed on barocolinicity lose the gradients in temperature that reinforce their concomitant upper level winds (& wind shear that's imparted on TCs). Of course a stronger storm also exhibits more beta drift that also influences the track increasingly northwestward to an extent.
 
I don't think this is OTS... A hair west and it looks like bombs away NE. There you go Storm, the ideal path :confused:.
gfs_z500a_atl_33.png
 
What's the best way to get out of it. As an independent contractor I would take a huge hit in income should I be selected in the future.


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Just say you hate people! When they ask you the first question! :)
 
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