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Pattern January 2017 Discussion

Storm5 link said:
[quote author=Webberweather53 link=topic=60.msg3442#msg3442 date=1482755113]
[quote author=GaWx link=topic=60.msg3441#msg3441 date=1482743276]
Well, well, well, the 0Z EPS is colder than the 12Z EPS in the SE US and also is colder than normal for many in the SE for 1/6-9. That's a nice baby step.

Yeah, I'm personally getting tired of seeing the EPS produce a semi-permanent trough over the Rockies and SE US ridge which fails to materialize. The GEFS has been doing this as well to an extent although it's been considerably better wrt recognizing when the SER breaks down and the trough over the west comes east.
[/quote]
that was big shift in the EPS. As you have been mentioning , the 10-12 day eps seems to have been on repeat with the trough over the rockies and holding onto the the SER. The question for me becomes , how stable will the pattern be IF it pays out as advertised.  The EPO looks like it's going to at least hang on for a few weeks. The -NAO seems kinda transient which we have become numb to at this point .

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[/quote]

I personally wonder what's up with the EPS because this isn't the first time this year it's held a trough too long (w/ too much amplitude) in the Rockies & western US, granted I sorta thought it was legitimate given the ENSO/QBO background)... Yea the -EPO will be a mainstay for at least a few weeks, and as far as I'm concerned there are a few ways this could evolve going into the middle portions of the month. If the North Atlantic blocking is transient, then we'll have a stretch of seasonably cool/variable wx with perhaps a decent threat for wintry wx somewhere down the line, and the Northeastern pacific & Alaskan block, (as is usually the case) will retrograde westward towards the Bering Sea & far eastern Siberia and lead to an appreciable -WPO, and the SE US will progressively intensify. (the observed retrogression of the Northestern Pacific block occurs because the anomalous rossby waves in the North pacific tends to have a very large latitudinal width, and therefore the difference in Coriolis forcing across the wave allows for its own self-perpetuating, westward advection that's a function of the differential in f (coriolis parameter) to overwhelm the mean westerly flow. Therefore it retrogrades westward despite the fact that the mean flow is westerly (this same physical concept also can apply to other rossby waves that retrograde westward, I just used the North Pacific as an example because this behavior occurs so often and has been observed so frequently of late)). Oth, if this north Atlantic block is stronger than modeled and is able to bridge over the top with the Alaskan block, then most of the US and Canada will get stupid cold as a massive PV lobe gets trapped over North America and we'll probably have some fun this month. Yea there's some uncertainty, but it's getting progressively harder for us to at least not get temporarily sideswiped by this PV lobe. Pardon for the technicalities in explaining the canonical (typical) retrogression of the North pacific block, there's no easy way to explain that lol...
 
whatalife link said:
Things look like they may be heating up...


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That's me! My highs the next 3 days: 71,65,65!
 
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Welcome over here! I give you a warm welcome! Your input and knowledge, will be very much appreciated!
 
I would guess the EPS dropping a trough into the west and an eastern ridge has to do with a mishandling of Pacific waves.

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I'm gonna be rooting for those blocks to bridge. Hopefully they'll hook up like saiames twins for about 6 weeks, not to much to ask for.
Maybe the mjo will get into the 8 area as well. Beleive 8 is the money spot for us, correct.
 
Webberweather53 link said:
[quote author=Storm5 link=topic=60.msg3446#msg3446 date=1482758686]
[quote author=Webberweather53 link=topic=60.msg3442#msg3442 date=1482755113]
[quote author=GaWx link=topic=60.msg3441#msg3441 date=1482743276]
Well, well, well, the 0Z EPS is colder than the 12Z EPS in the SE US and also is colder than normal for many in the SE for 1/6-9. That's a nice baby step.

Yeah, I'm personally getting tired of seeing the EPS produce a semi-permanent trough over the Rockies and SE US ridge which fails to materialize. The GEFS has been doing this as well to an extent although it's been considerably better wrt recognizing when the SER breaks down and the trough over the west comes east.
[/quote]
that was big shift in the EPS. As you have been mentioning , the 10-12 day eps seems to have been on repeat with the trough over the rockies and holding onto the the SER. The question for me becomes , how stable will the pattern be IF it pays out as advertised.  The EPO looks like it's going to at least hang on for a few weeks. The -NAO seems kinda transient which we have become numb to at this point .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
[/quote]

I personally wonder what's up with the EPS because this isn't the first time this year it's held a trough too long (w/ too much amplitude) in the Rockies & western US, granted I sorta thought it was legitimate given the ENSO/QBO background)... Yea the -EPO will be a mainstay for at least a few weeks, and as far as I'm concerned there are a few ways this could evolve going into the middle portions of the month. If the North Atlantic blocking is transient, then we'll have a stretch of seasonably cool/variable wx with perhaps a decent threat for wintry wx somewhere down the line, and the Northeastern pacific & Alaskan block, (as is usually the case) will retrograde westward towards the Bering Sea & far eastern Siberia and lead to an appreciable -WPO, and the SE US will progressively intensify. (the observed retrogression of the Northestern Pacific block occurs because the anomalous rossby waves in the North pacific tends to have a very large latitudinal width, and therefore the difference in Coriolis forcing across the wave allows for its own self-perpetuating, westward advection that's a function of the differential in f (coriolis parameter) to overwhelm the mean westerly flow. Therefore it retrogrades westward despite the fact that the mean flow is westerly (this same physical concept also can apply to other rossby waves that retrograde westward, I just used the North Pacific as an example because this behavior occurs so often and has been observed so frequently of late)). Oth, if this north Atlantic block is stronger than modeled and is able to bridge over the top with the Alaskan block, then most of the US and Canada will get stupid cold as a massive PV lobe gets trapped over North America and we'll probably have some fun this month. Yea there's some uncertainty, but it's getting progressively harder for us to at least not get temporarily sideswiped by this PV lobe. Pardon for the technicalities in explaining the canonical (typical) retrogression of the North pacific block, there's no easy way to explain that lol...
[/quote]
no need to apologize.  the technical  explanations are appreciated

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Tarheel1 link said:
[quote author=Jon link=topic=60.msg3449#msg3449 date=1482763124]
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Welcome over here! I give you a warm welcome! Your input and knowledge, will be very much appreciated!
[/quote]
Thanks!


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NCSNOW link said:
I'm gonna be rooting for those blocks to bridge. Hopefully they'll hook up like saiames twins for about 6 weeks, not to much to ask for.
Maybe the mjo will get into the 8 area as well. Beleive 8 is the money spot for us, correct.

Based on an analysis I did a couple of years ago of day by day Atlanta (used as a rep for the SE) January temperatures 1975 onward along with each day's MJO, the absolute coldest place on average was inside the circle within phase 8's slice of the pie. Second coldest was inside the circle within phase 7's slice. Next coldest on average were inside the circle within phases 1, 2, and 3 followed by inside phase 6. Overall, inside the left half of the circle has been favorable for cold and quite a bit colder than inside the right half of the circle. The warmest place by far overall has been outside the circle on the right side. When the MJO was outside the circle, the coldest place on average was barely outside the circle in phase 8.

Note that when it turned very cold during much of the first 8 days of January of 2014, the MJO had moved to phases 7 and 8 within the circle. Atlanta got down to 6F, its coldest in many years. That is an analog I've been following because it has a similar Dec to this month and was also a neutral negative ENSO with a Dec having a strong SE ridge, cold Midwest, and strong +AO. It turned on a dime in early January.

For SE cold lovers, the most recent progged MJO is toward the favorable left side of the circle by several models, including the best (EPS). Of course, that is far from a guarantee for cold. However, from an MJO perspective, alone, that is the best place to be.
 
Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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well hot damn it's Jon. Welcome !!!

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Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Welcome over!    P.S. Please do not hate me cause I'm Sexy
 
The 6Z GFS is a major IP/ZR 1/7-8 for much of the main CAD areas of NC/SC/GA fwiw. For ATL-AHN verbatim, it doesn't quite show that per Meteostar, but the parameters suggest it would probably be a major ZR there as modeled with the pretty good wedging when considering the 850 temperatures.

Also, welcome Jon!
 
GaWx link said:
The 6Z GFS is a major IP/ZR 1/7-8 for much of the main CAD areas of NC/SC/GA fwiw. For ATL-AHN verbatim, it doesn't quite show that per Meteostar, but the parameters suggest it would probably be a major ZR there as modeled with the pretty good wedging when considering the 850 temperatures.
And the cold press, for once this year, may be underestimated! Wishcasting , maybe, but we will see and hopefully some snowpack left in the plains and upper Midwest to help with transport of the cold!
 
GaWx link said:
The 6Z GFS is a major IP/ZR 1/7-8 for much of the main CAD areas of NC/SC/GA fwiw. For ATL-AHN verbatim, it doesn't quite show that per Meteostar, but the parameters suggest it would probably be a major ZR there as modeled with the pretty good wedging when considering the 850 temperatures.

Also, welcome Jon!
  I'm happy to see a gom low out in Goofyland too!  Those have been missing in our range of near misses in recent years.  I used to see gom lows and 33 all the time in days gone by.  Nothing beats the disappointment of 2 inches of very cold rain, lol.  Mother natures mean, mean torture machine has not been so evident this decade as in past decades....especially when Macon gets all that rain translated into snow.  The one time it actually turns to snow it's where I ain't!!  A gom low and 33 is the ultimate cruel vagary of winter weather in Ga, only topped by someone further south getting the cheese, lol!!  Or, absolute worst of all, all that rain freezing on contact. T
 
Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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If it's not in the teens and showing a storm less than 12 hours out it's like some of them don't even think it's worth watching, or they will just say the same old thing about it being 10 days away and the models will change. Not sure why they even bother following things on these boards with that attitude..


Point is the models have been honking about the 1/7 to 1/9 time period for a while. Definitely needs watching since they are showing the opportunity for a winter storm, and opportunities are all we can ask for around here.
 
Gfs still not getting anything inside ten days. Lots of energy in the west around day 10
 
Yep it's actually keeping highs in place and keeping lows in the gulf
 
The 8th event, looks a little warmer, but more South, right where we want it now! And only 1 storm,unless you count the Rainer on the 10th! Nitpicking at this range, but it is what it is
 
Storm5 link said:
damn 12z gfs is going nuts with blocking

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for sure

gfs_z500a_namer_41.png
 
Re: January 2017 Discussion

12z gefs
d0244cca2aa843759dd62c9e4d6071cc.jpg



coast to coast cold . the bathtub is sloshing !
79de056a28c484a1cd26fa34376ec275.jpg

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Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Nice to see you here Jon!
 
Re: January 2017 Discussion

Storm5 link said:
12z gefs
d0244cca2aa843759dd62c9e4d6071cc.jpg



coast to coast cold . the bathtub is sloshing !
79de056a28c484a1cd26fa34376ec275.jpg

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God, if that could only be right!!!!! I'll get in the bathtub too!
 
Nice to see the GFS attempting to bridge the ridge over the far N Atlantic going into early January, in concert with the NE Pacific blocking, the US and much of south-central Canada would be absolutely frigid as a huge PV gets stuck on our side of the world... Of course like many here, although we have favorable antecedent tropical forcing signals for a -NAO (w/ tropical pacific forcing preceding -NAO surge ~ 1-2 weeks in advance), I don't quite yet trust it given how fickle this pattern is and unfavorable ENSO/QBO/Solar & AMO/THC bgd in addition to interannual-interdecadal persistence. Of course, with the Northeastern Pacific blocking alone, even with a transitory -NAO, we would still get at least a few transient arctic/continental polar air masses with an opportunity or two for an overrunning event. Considering that the current ENSO/QBO base state is usually about as unfavorable as it gets wrt the probability of BN temperatures in the SE US in mid-late winter, I'll take what I can get.
 
Not far off from a wintry mix for New Years Day across western NC and into the foothills. Verbatim, goes to all rain but worth watching temps and precip timing over the next few days. Maybe some Piedmont counties too.
 
Jon link said:
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Is this Mr. Wall or an imposter?
 
Certainly can't remember too many times where I've seen every major model suite go for the rare coast-to-coast cold look during the 10-15...
 
12z Canadian with cold pouring into the USA at the run's end.  Would continue South and East likely:

gem_T2m_namer_41.png
 
Shawn link said:
12z Canadian with cold pouring into the USA at the run's end.  Would continue South and East likely:

gem_T2m_namer_41.png
yep the cmc jumped in with two feet . it's been waffling back and back forth trying to decide what to do . that run it decided

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I took a look at the 0z Euro and it has a newly formed LP at the tail end of the frontal boundary at hr. 192 but there is no cold air. The latest GFS has an app runner with cold air coming down from the NW and the rain ending as SHSN/flurries across the southern apps. To come up with my predictions, I like to use a blend of the GFS and the Euro. There will be a storm at some point in early Jan. Will it be a rain to a snow event, will it just be all rain or will there just be light SNSH/flurries as the LP pushes off to the NE? It's too early in time to determine that. But, I like what I'm seeing for early Jan.         
 
Shawn link said:
[quote author=Jon link=topic=60.msg3449#msg3449 date=1482763124]
Back to back storms on the 00z and 6z. Fantasy range but it should make some believers in the pattern. This is all it's going to take to generate 100 posts on the other board, smh. I may start posting here more!

Agree Webber, my thoughts were the same hat the EPS would correct.


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Is this Mr. Wall or an imposter?
[/quote]
Dr. Wall**** just kidding. Tis I Shawn!

Thanks for all the warm welcome folks.


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The Euro keeps the cold air well away from AL, GA, NC, SC, and TN right through day 10. Our turn will come in Feb if it does at all.
 
JHS link said:
The Euro keeps the cold air well away from AL, GA, NC, SC, and TN right through day 10. Our turn will come in Feb if it does at all.

And we have our Debbie Downer.
 
Storm5 link said:
12z euro is all in

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Yeah, I'd call the 12Z Euro a very good run, especially compared to the 0Z Euro, which was so different from the 0Z GFS and despite the fact that the coldest 850's are not nearly as cold as the 12Z GFS' back in the northern Rockies/Plains (-28 C for Euro vs -38 C for GFS). Also, note that if one were to project from the day 10 map, one could assume that the SE's last widespread complete warmer than normal day would be January 4th with Jan 5th being a transition day cooler. That's the timeframe I'm now concentrating on because that's there the GFS has been for several runs now . Will Jan 5th hold as the start of the transition or will it slip once again? With the MJO projected to be supportive and the 0Z EPS 11-15 now colder, I'm thinking it may just hold this time.
 
JHS link said:
The Euro keeps the cold air well away from AL, GA, NC, SC, and TN right through day 10. Our turn will come in Feb if it does at all.

You sure about that? Looks to me like RDU is below normal 12/30-1/1 then next shot of cold is moving into the region on 1/5
 
GaWx link said:
For N GA: Mainly for entertainment since it is still 10-12 days out on a GFS run but also for documentation, the 0Z GFS gives Atlanta just about down to the airport and ENE to Athens a significant ZR, a significant Tony storm (sleet) in the Marietta-Cumming-Gainesville-GSP corridor, and a major snow to Rome, GA, northward. This year does favor a major ZR/IP over major SN for Atlanta-Athens per ENSO analogs if there is going to be a major winter storm there at some point this winter.

The 0Z Euro shows nothing like that setting up for then per its 240 hour map, which doesn't at all look like the 0Z GFS.

You know what, I generally tend to dislike sleet mainly because it doesn't accumulate fast, but I've grown to cherish any kind of winter precip I can get, even if it's sleet. BTW, my city is never mentioned. Thanks, Larry! lol
 
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