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The sin was very public. He was on video bragging about sexually assaulting women that was played before millions of people. That makes it a very public sin.

If I were caught on tape bragging about some sin that was played publicly, then yes, I would stand before my congregation and confess (and probably resign).
 
He didn't commit that sin in public. Sure the public knows about it, but we don't know if he has confessed it or not. Do you stand before your congregation and confess all your sins each week. Just saying.... and yes I understand 1st John 1:9 perfectly well. No, I am not saying that you will go to Hell if you don't use the KJV. I am saying that when it comes to where my soul will spend all of eternity, I choose to trust the translation that was handed down from generation to generation for hundreds of years. Tell me this...... how many English translations of Moby ---- are there? That's right, there's only 1.... because we don't need someone re-writing it and giving us there interpretation.

You do realize that the KJV was not the first English translation, right? By your logic above, you should only be reading the Tyndale Bible.
 
You do realize that the KJV was not the first English translation, right? By your logic above, you should only be reading the Tyndale Bible.

THE KJV was also written by committee, so its literally dozens of clergy from that time period.....over 50 in fact all responsible for different sections....

Ironically Tyndale was executed for writing a bible in English lol......then even more ironically his translation became the basis for all other English bibles.....even though it was considered heresy when he wrote it and cost him his life....
 
THE KJV was also written by committee, so its literally dozens of clergy from that time period.....over 50 in fact all responsible for different sections....

Ironically Tyndale was executed for writing a bible in English lol......then even more ironically his translation became the basis for all other English bibles.....even though it was considered heresy when he wrote it and cost him his life....
Interesting
 
THE KJV was also written by committee, so its literally dozens of clergy from that time period.....over 50 in fact all responsible for different sections....

Ironically Tyndale was executed for writing a bible in English lol......then even more ironically his translation became the basis for all other English bibles.....even though it was considered heresy when he wrote it and cost him his life....

Not to mention that the KJV has itself been revised three times with some 100,000 changes from the original 1611. Few people actually have the 1611.
 
As a atheist I cringe when I read these kind of statements...I think there are two kinds of Christians, those that are just trying to find their way and those that live it as a "lifestyle", the second group are the ones I particularly have a hard time dealing with,

I have members of my extended family like that and its super annoying. If people want to become a Christian then fine but don't tell me I need to do this that or the other thing or if you feel compelled to tell me it do it ONCE...then move on, I have had friends as well do the same thing, its why I sometimes just smile and nod and keep my atheism to myself, so many uppity Christians think they have to save my soul its annoying, that and the friends that have literally decided to not be close friends with me after learning I don't believe in god, people I have known for years....its sad.

I think this perspective is important for us Christians to hear. We generally do a very poor job of presenting the message of Jesus to others and living it out ourselves. The thing is, even when a person is saved, they are far from perfect, and will always be hypocritical. The fact that we are imperfect is exactly why we need a savior. If we lived perfect blameless lives (which is impossible) we wouldn't have needed Jesus to begin with. As for trying to "save your soul," think about how this carona virus has been handled. So many people think they have the answers, many giving advice, even orders on how to behave, think, and proceed. On this very forum, people get angry at each other for having different views, or not following their playbook on Caronavirus management. It's human nature. Christians are not immune and we believe faith has eternal implications. if we are correct, it is horrible to think of people being forever seperated from God, especailly loved ones. If we are wrong, none of it matters. anyway.
 
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Maybe but it comes across kinda preachy and then they judge me on my atheism while I don't do things like cheat on my wife or have a drinking problem but since I don't live a "clean" Christian life like themselves I am not as good a person as they are.....and trust me there are TONS of people like this out there. If I try to point out any of this then I am attacking Christians and they are all soooooo persecuted :rolleyes:

Remember that being a Christian isn't about "being a good person." Being a "good" or "nice" person has nothing to do with it. For one thing, there is no way to define good or nice if there is not an absolute standard by which to judge someone. Secondly, being good or "living a clean life" is a result of being remade through God's salvation (sanctification), NOT a cause of salvation. No one can earn or behave their way back to God, or be good enough; there is just no way to be sinless. Yes we Christians are hypocritical, yes we talk about goodness and Godliness and fall miserably short. We're human, we are seperated from God by our sins and that is why we need the love and sacrifice of Jesus. A Christian is no better, cleaner, or less sinful than an atheist. The difference is, the Christian has decided to allow their heart and mind to be reshaped (a never ending process) by God's love and power and is able to be brought back into the presence of God because Jesus has carried them across the chasm caused by their sin.
 
I agree, and I am not suggesting that we shouldn't vote and that we shouldn't promote a more just/godly society. The problem, as I see it, is that too many of us have grown to equate saving America as saving Christianity; or promoting Republican candidates as the same as promoting the gospel. The Bible tells us that we are citizens of heaven--that is our first allegiance; the kingdom of heaven is what we promote first and foremost. When we loudly and proudly support someone such as Trump, we do more to hinder our cause than to promote it. Just my opinion.

I agree overall, but we are going to have a hard time voting if we only vote for candidates who have no unGodliness about them.
 
Where in Scripture does it say you will be accountable for a vote for a politician? Can you back that up? Is abortion the only political issue God cares about? Is he not equally concerned with economic justice (hello OT prophets)? The idea that one of two political parties solely represents God is absurd--absolutely absurd.

Many pro-lifers are also pro death penalty. I guess they will have to answer for that as well.
 
BY: Faith alone, IN: Christ alone, THROUGH: Grace alone. Love God (Father, Son, and Spirit), and Love others. Follow this and the other stuff will fall into place.
 
Remember that being a Christian isn't about "being a good person." Being a "good" or "nice" person has nothing to do with it. For one thing, there is no way to define good or nice if there is not an absolute standard by which to judge someone. Secondly, being good or "living a clean life" is a result of being remade through God's salvation (sanctification), NOT a cause of salvation. No one can earn or behave their way back to God, or be good enough; there is just no way to be sinless. Yes we Christians are hypocritical, yes we talk about goodness and Godliness and fall miserably short. We're human, we are seperated from God by our sins and that is why we need the love and sacrifice of Jesus. A Christian is no better, cleaner, or less sinful than an atheist. The difference is, the Christian has decided to allow their heart and mind to be reshaped (a never ending process) by God's love and power and is able to be brought back into the presence of God because Jesus has carried them across the chasm caused by their sin.

Kind of makes god look more like a dictator than a loving good doesnt it. I mean if being good and nice has nothing to do with it and only your allegiance to him matters. Sounds a lot like those leaders who demand you support them or you end up in desert with a hole in your head? Think about it.

God: Allegiance to me and you go to heaven. Dont and you end up in hell the worst place imaginable.

Saddam: allegiance to me or you go to a Iraqi prison......2nd worst place imaginable.

That's sort of how I've always viewed the dilemma of how good people end up in hell while child raping murderers can repent on their death bed and go to heaven.
 
As a question to you guys of faith. An old friend from college who is now a preacher recently made a Facebook post. It was in response to the stimulus. It was along the lines of thank you trump but dont forget what 10% of $1200 is........doesnt that seem kind of forward and "give me part of your stimulus" type of pushiness?
 
Kind of makes god look more like a dictator than a loving good doesnt it. I mean if being good and nice has nothing to do with it and only your allegiance to him matters. Sounds a lot like those leaders who demand you support them or you end up in desert with a hole in your head? Think about it.

God: Allegiance to me and you go to heaven. Dont and you end up in hell the worst place imaginable.

Saddam: allegiance to me or you go to a Iraqi prison......2nd worst place imaginable.

That's sort of how I've always viewed the dilemma of how good people end up in hell while child raping murderers can repent on their death bed and go to heaven.

It’s not about allegiance to God, it’s whether when the all knowing, burning eye of God looks are you and sees Christ in your stead.

His robes for mine: O wonderful exchange!
Clothed in my sin, Christ suffered ‘neath God’s rage.
Draped in His righteousness, I’m justified.
In Christ I live, for in my place He died.

Chorus:
I cling to Christ, and marvel at the cost:
Jesus forsaken, God estranged from God.
Bought by such love, my life is not my own.
My praise—my all—shall be for Christ alone.

His robes for mine: what cause have I for dread?
God’s daunting Law Christ mastered in my stead.
Faultless I stand with righteous works not mine,
Saved by my Lord’s vicarious death and life.

His robes for mine: God’s justice is appeased.
Jesus is crushed, and thus the Father’s pleased.
Christ drank God’s wrath on sin, then cried, “’Tis done!”
Sin’s wage is paid; propitiation won.

His robes for mine: such anguish none can know.
Christ, God’s beloved, condemned as though His foe.
He, as though I, accursed and left alone;
I, as though He, embraced and welcomed hom
 
Many pro-lifers are also pro death penalty. I guess they will have to answer for that as well.

I am pro-life and I was against capital punishment until I went to seminary, where I took an ethics class and my view was forever changed.

Let me preface this by saying that I only support capital punishment in those cases where the guilt of the killer is not in doubt. Too many innocent people have been killed on death row; that is a fact and something our society must work harder to prevent. We as evangelicals should be more vocal in working toward that end, in my opinion.

So, how can you reconcile being pro-life and pro-capital punishment? It sounds illogical but biblically speaking, it makes sense. We believe that capital punishment upholds the sanctity of life. Murder is an attack on the sanctity of life, but also an attack on God, for we believe that all human beings are created in the image of God. The image of God in man is what makes human life sacred. God ordained capital punishment in Genesis after the flood for this very reason (It's upheld in Romans 13 as the right of the state). Before the flood, there was no value for human life. The pre-flood world was extremely violent with no checks-and-balances to prevent such violence. One of the remedies in the post-flood world was the institution of capital punishment. Bottom line, capital punishment is intended to prevent the taking of innocent life as a deterrent, and therefore it upholds the sanctity of life.

There is much more than can be said on this topic. But that's the simplest explanation I can give at this moment.
 
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As a question to you guys of faith. An old friend from college who is now a preacher recently made a Facebook post. It was in response to the stimulus. It was along the lines of thank you trump but dont forget what 10% of $1200 is........doesnt that seem kind of forward and "give me part of your stimulus" type of pushiness?

Yes it is pushy and something I would never do. I am grateful for our church family, They have continued to give faithfully the past two months. In fact, we are probably slightly ahead (probably because many of our folks tithed on their government checks), while many churches are struggling. But I have not once asked them to continue to give--they support the ministry because they believe in the ministry.
 
Here’s our “Christian” president showing his Christ-like character for all to see:

 
Came across a good read devotion not long ago.

Praying for Those in Authority
July 4, 2019
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour….
— 1 Timothy 2:1-3
Even if we don’t like the way things are going in our government, we must obey the apostle Paul’s exhortation in First Timothy 2:1-3 to pray for our governmental leaders. Before you dismiss Paul’s instructions to pray for those in authority as too simplistic, remember that he lived at a time of grossly immoral governmental leadership and that he ultimately was martyred by Nero — the very “king” he asked people to pray for! In First Timothy 2:1-3, Paul declared, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour….”
Paul gave us six prayer commands in these verses that God expects us to obey — regardless of who is calling the shots politically. In this passage of Scripture, he clearly defined guidelines for us to follow when we pray. Rather than rush to God with accusations, complaints, grumbling, protestations, and whining, we are to follow the positive approach in prayer Paul provided. He began by saying, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications….”
1. A Right Attitude
The word “supplications” is a translation of the Greek word deisis, which describes the attitude of one who beseeched a king. Access to a throne was a great privilege in the ancient world, so when an individual approached a king, he showed respect and gratitude for the privilege.
*[If you started reading this from your email, begin reading here.]

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As Paul began to outline his instructions regarding how we should pray, he reminded us of the kind of attitude we ought to have when we draw near to God. Before we utter a single word in prayer, we must clearly understand in our hearts that we have been afforded a great privilege to access the throne room of God. Regardless of the thoughts swirling around in our minds or the complaints we may be harboring in our souls, we need to come into God’s presence with hearts of respect and gratitude. We certainly are not to enter His presence ready to unabashedly spew ugly, disrespectful, or slanderous words at Him as though it’s His fault that things aren’t going the way we wished they were going!
Therefore, the first thing we need to do when we prepare to pray for our government is get our attitudes right.
2. A Prayer of Personal Consecration
As Paul continued, he wrote, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers.…” The word “prayers” — the Greek word proseuche — literally means an exchange or a surrender and pictures a person who comes into the intimate presence of God to consecrate himself as a first matter of priority.
So Paul affirmed that our first responsibility as believers before we ever utter a request or a complaint regarding others — before we utter anything else at all — is to enter the presence of God and get our own attitudes and thoughts right before Him. Then with clear hearts we can receive His thoughts and know His ways in the place of prayer. When our own attitudes are corrected and realigned, it usually changes the way we pray concerning others, because our words reflect the Father’s heart instead of our own personal preference or opinions.
Everything must be surrendered to God and the power of His Spirit before anything else is spoken to Him in prayer.
3. A Prayer of Intercession for Others
Once a believer has dealt with his own wrong attitudes and his need of consecration, Paul wrote what to do next. He said, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions….”
The word “intercessions” is the Greek word huperentugchano, which means to appeal to God on behalf of someone else. Once you have dealt with your own attitude and consecrated yourself to the will of God, you are in a position to appeal to God about someone else.
Perhaps you sense the Holy Spirit’s leading to pray for someone who is unable to pray for himself, such as a novice believer who simply doesn’t know how to pray effectively, or for a government leader whose spiritual condition and unwise decisions are negatively affecting masses of people. In other words, you sense the Holy Spirit’s leading to assume an intercessory position and to focus your prayers toward a specific individual or situation. And if you have made sure your own heart is clear of clutter, you can pray for others in this way while remaining free from any selfish agenda or wrong attitude.
4. A Prayer of Thankfulness
Paul continued in his list of prayer guidelines by saying, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks….” According to this verse, you are also to give “thanks” while you are in God’s presence. This phrase “giving of thanks,” which is a form of the Greek word eucharistos, depicts an overflowing, grateful heart.
Let’s be honest — it’s difficult to be grateful and thankful when you are harboring a complaining attitude at the same time! God knows this. So He instructs you to allow thankfulness to flow from your heart, which will literally shift your “inner atmosphere” during your time of prayer.
So before you start griping about a political leader — or anyone else for that matter! — first take time to think of reasons you can be thankful regarding that person. This will change your tone and make you more effective in prayer. And rest assured — God will appreciate your change of attitude!
5. A Prayer for Everyone
Paul continued, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men….” The word “all” means we are not to show favoritism or to be picky about the people we pray for. Regardless of their spiritual status or political affiliation, we are to pray for “all men.” This is a good test, because if there is someone you think you can’t pray for, it probably indicates a problematic attitude inside you that needs to be consecrated to God. This is very important to understand, because your inability to pray for someone actually reveals a deep need for change in you.
6. A Prayer for Governmental Officials
Next, Paul said that we must pray for “for kings.” If anyone needed prayer, it was the unsaved kings who possessed lofty positions of power and authority in the First Century AD! But Paul broadened the scope of this divine command by saying that we are to pray for all who are “in authority.” The word “authority” used here is huperarche and depicts prominent governmental officials. Ponder that for a moment. That means we are to pray for all prominent governmental officials — even those whom we don’t care for at all! Paul told us the reason for all this praying is “…that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior….”
Most believers in New Testament times had no option to vote, so they did what they could do and followed Paul’s six prayer commands. I’m sure if they had been given the right to vote, they would have rushed to the polling booths to cast their votes. But the only vote they could cast was in prayer — so they prayed! Since their governmental leaders were entrenched in power and there was nothing they could do to change it, these early believers took their role in prayer very seriously. And ultimately the power of those prayers brought about change far greater than any election day could ever produce!
Remember — our democratic system allows us to vote, and we must exercise this cherished right. But once the election is over, we have to face the fact that the men and women who have been placed in positions of power are there because of the democratic system that elected them. They represent the choice of the people who put them there. If we are unsatisfied with the outcome, our opportunity is coming again a few years down the road to change the situation. Yet even so, our greatest effectiveness will be found as we enter God’s presence in the authority of Jesus’ name and fulfill these six prayer commands given by the Holy Spirit to the Church through the apostle Paul!
MY PRAYER FOR TODAY

Father, I cherish the right to vote. It is a freedom that cost the lives of many. At the appointed time, I will exercise that privilege to make my voice heard via my voting ballot. However, I realize that I don’t have to wait for an upcoming election to cast my vote for righteousness. I take my place in prayer, in obedience to Your Word, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I pray with all manner of prayer and supplications. Seated together with Christ Jesus and by the authority of His name, I pray with confidence according to Your will, knowing that You hear me.

I pray this in Jesus’ name!
MY CONFESSION FOR TODAY

I confess that I exercise my rights on earth and in Heaven. I pray for those in offices of governmental authority as I exercise my authority in Christ through prayer. I operate according to the divine law of love, and I refrain from criticism and negative speech. Instead, I speak words in agreement with the will of God and the establishment of righteousness in my land.

I declare this by faith in Jesus’ name!
QUESTIONS FOR YOU TO CONSIDER

  1. Do you have the right to vote? If so, do you appreciate it? Do you actually vote, or are you among the millions of people who no longer go to the polls and just trust that everyone else will do the voting?
  2. How often do you pray for those who are in authority? Often people feel free to criticize leaders, but they fail to pray for them. Which category do you fit into? If you are one who criticizes only, how will you change after reading today’s Sparkling Gem? Will you begin to pray for those who are in authority?
  3. Without looking back at what you read today, can you recall the six prayer commands that Paul gave to us? Since these are commands, it would be good for you to memorize them so you can make them a regular part of your prayer life.
 
Kind of makes god look more like a dictator than a loving good doesnt it. I mean if being good and nice has nothing to do with it and only your allegiance to him matters. Sounds a lot like those leaders who demand you support them or you end up in desert with a hole in your head? Think about it.

Actually it shows how loving and magnanimous He is. People He created, decided they would rather seperate themselves from Him; thus actually choosing to stay sepearated from Him forever (Hell). Yet, in love, he designed a way for all the evil to be forgiven so that this separation can be bridged. Being 'good and nice" only holds meaning if there is an absolute standard (which must come from outside of us and culture, otherwise they're just relative terms). But it's a wonderful thing that God doesn't require us to be "good" to get into heaven. First of all, if we had to earn it, it would be based on our effort, not His love, and it would be crazy trying to figure out if we had been good enough or not. My kids don't have to earn my love by being "good," nor should they have to. My love should be granted, unconditional, and unending. Besides, love that has to be earned isn't love.

God: Allegiance to me and you go to heaven. Dont and you end up in hell the worst place imaginable.

This couldn't be further from reality. God doesn't need or demand "allegiance." Heaven is not a reward for allegience or worship and prayer (which he doesn't need either) and Hell is not a punishment for nonallegiance; as if He were a conceited and egotistical entity that needs to take vengance for an injured ego ( which, interestingly, is how many atheists see Him). Those are human traits and He is not human. Heaven and Hell is just the nature of being with him or not.

It's more like this: A person decides they want to experience love, goodness, beauty, fellowship, etc (which are all attributes of God) and recognize where they come from or they decide they are ok not having any of those. To have them eternally is Heaven, to have none of them eternally is Hell. Heaven is with God (and all his attributes like goodness, beauty, fellowship, etc), Hell is without Him (and his attributes). Becasue those attributes are part of God's nature, you don't get those without Him.

God has given us free will, a choice, and already given a way for our seperation (sin) to be bridged. If we choose Him, Heaven is where we go to be with Him. If we choose not to be with Him, Hell is is where we go; the place that is totally separated from Him and His attributes. If we choose separation (Hell), but think it's unfair or harsh, we've got no one to blame but ourselves. God certainly isn't to blame.


Saddam: allegiance to me or you go to a Iraqi prison......2nd worst place imaginable.

That's sort of how I've always viewed the dilemma of how good people end up in hell while child raping murderers can repent on their death bed and go to heaven.

Again, if there is no God, there is no absolute standard, so there is no such thing as "good people" or "bad people." But if God is real, then there is an absolute standard, and it's one that we all; every single one of us, fall short of, which means we are all "bad people" (meaning we don't live up to a Godly standard). So people may be "nice" or law abiding (from our perspective), but that will not get them back into a relationship with God. I understand the sentiment that "good people going to Hell and bad people repenting on their death bed while going to Heaven" may seem "unfair" (which is another relative word without an absolute standard) by our wordly perspective. But it's really not a dilemma. We are born separated from God into a world that is separated from God. The natural result is to remain separated from God, whether we are "nice and good" or not. Only being reconciled with Him will result in us being able to live in a realtionship with Him after this life (Heaven). And if all sin (separation) is not fogiveable (even the bad ones) and capable of being covered by the death of Jesus, then God would have fallen short in His work which would take away the prospect of Him being God.

Above.
 
Kind of makes god look more like a dictator than a loving good doesnt it. I mean if being good and nice has nothing to do with it and only your allegiance to him matters. Sounds a lot like those leaders who demand you support them or you end up in desert with a hole in your head? Think about it.

God: Allegiance to me and you go to heaven. Dont and you end up in hell the worst place imaginable.

Saddam: allegiance to me or you go to a Iraqi prison......2nd worst place imaginable.

That's sort of how I've always viewed the dilemma of how good people end up in hell while child raping murderers can repent on their death bed and go to heaven.
Way way off, God will never MAKE you believe in him (it is called free will) but a dictator can and will
 
Watched the movie overcomer tonight. That church in GA does an awesome job making christian movies. Facing the Giants,war room to name a few.
 
You will stand before God and give an account of how you voted and who you supported. I would not want to stand before God and have to tell him I voted for someone who supported killing his unborn children. That's why we Christians support Republican candidates. Always will...
Paul slaughtered many Christians before he was saved. So look at him as like a politician at first. I don’t look to go and spread Gods word. God will open their eyes if he wants someone to witness to them. As I said before I believe but we were raised to believe in Jesus just as other nations were raised to believe in their God. God said he would call his people unto him. It’s not us calling them to God. Talking any religion or beliefs is a slippery slope. I have always heard and seen those that put the fish or claim Christianity is the ones to watch out for. As he said in Luke. The man that stood on e corner and yelled I’m not like that man found no favor with God. Humble and letting the spirit work is my belief.
 
Way way off, God will never MAKE you believe in him (it is called free will) but a dictator can and will

Condemning someone to a literal eternity in hell because they wont believe in you is pretty petty, especially for a all powerful being who can prove its existence to every person if they so choose to.....instead they expect people to believe in them with no real proof. Fear is a great motivator, I was raised in the church, when I begin to question whether god was real or not my fear of going to hell for even thinking those thoughts was huge, its was very hard to shake the indoctrination I was programmed so hard that I was doomed to hell that it kept my 13 yr old self awake all night for many many nights as I wrestled with things in my mind as to how I felt there was no way god was real yet the fear of hell felt very real. Ultimately that is one of the things that helped me realize religion is about control.

God(s) are a construct of man, in the beginning gods explained the unexplained, then men found they could use god to control the masses and it was all downhill from there.
 
But God has revealed himself to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ miracles were intended to prove just that and there is strong extra biblical evidence in support of those miracles, including the greatest miracle of all—the resurrection.

Every religion but one is a construct of man, no doubt. But why is that?Rather than evidence for atheism, I believe it is strong affirmation of the existence of God. We were created to worship God, but our worship has been corrupted since the fall. But we still have this innate desire to worship. Some worship other so called gods, some worship idols. We all worship someone or something. The question is who or what are you worshipping?

What's truly petty is how we have exchanged the worship of God for something else that does not deserve our worship.
 
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Genesis 34 is very challenging. It includes the rape of a young girl; the subsequent slaughter of all the men in the village where the assault occurred; and a deceitful plan by God's people for the slaughter. What are we supposed to make of all of this?


 
But God has revealed himself to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ miracles were intended to prove just that and there is strong extra biblical evidence in support of those miracles, including the greatest miracle of all—the resurrection.

Every religion but one is a construct of man, no doubt. But why is that?Rather than evidence for atheism, I believe it is strong affirmation of the existence of God. We were created to worship God, but our worship has been corrupted since the fall. But we still have this innate desire to worship. Some worship other so called gods, some worship idols. We all worship someone or something. The question is who or what are you worshipping?

What's truly petty is how we have exchanged the worship of God for something else that does not deserve our worship.

Thus the crux of the problem, every single religion believes this.....and they are all as certain as you are they have the one "true" religion....the irony at least from us atheist POV is that your all wrong :)

The ex Mormon folks talk about their shelf of faith and how when they heard something that made them doubt their beliefs they were to put it on the shelf where there faith would support it, the ex mormons (and everyone that walks away from religion ) have a moment when the doubts and questions exceed what their shelf of faith could support and it breaks causing them to lose their religion, and they refer to it as the thing that broke their shelf.....for me the fact that there are literally thousands of religions is just further proof that gods are constructs of man tailored to fit the role that particular society needs, its one of my shelf breakers.....we are raised in our religions for the most part, I was, I am certain that if I was never taught to believe the things I was taught at a young age I would never have become religious as a adult. We raised our son that way, we made it a point to not tell him how we believed when he was little and still tell him he should think and explore things regarding religion on his own. We answered the questioned he had the best we could and I have no doubt that even with not trying to influence him we have.

Our neighbors are pretty religious and their sons go to a Christian School and the younger one who is just now 16 told my son (17) he didn't believe in any of it and was worried how his family was going to handle it if he "came out" as a atheist, my son asked me for advice and I told him I couldn't be involved at all and as far as I know the boy still in the atheist closest. At the end of the day its way easier to just pretend to be religious in the south for family sake and I think there is a lot of that going on. I got lucky my wife is also a atheist but I know a lot of families where there is tension around beliefs.
 
Thus the crux of the problem, every single religion believes this.....and they are all as certain as you are they have the one "true" religion....the irony at least from us atheist POV is that your all wrong :)

I get it. But the difference is Jesus Christ. The claims that the Bible makes about Jesus are supported from additional sources. There is at least strong evidence in favor of Christianity that is not found in other religions.
 
Different subject. When does the age for accountability start for children? I know God loves all the children of the world, including adults lol but this conversation has been going on in my house for a while now.
 
I get it. But the difference is Jesus Christ. The claims that the Bible makes about Jesus are supported from additional sources. There is at least strong evidence in favor of Christianity that is not found in other religions.

Well I would argue there is as much support for Muhammad or Budda or the Hindu gods etc, all have extensive dogma and source materials....as someone on the outside looking in without a bias for one over the other there really does not appear to be much difference in the validity of any one religion especially the main ones.
 
Well I would argue there is as much support for Muhammad or Budda or the Hindu gods etc, all have extensive dogma and source materials....as someone on the outside looking in without a bias for one over the other there really does not appear to be much difference in the validity of any one religion especially the main ones.
The difference is the radical power to change your life for the better that's not based on doing good works like other religions.
 
Well I would argue there is as much support for Muhammad or Budda or the Hindu gods etc, all have extensive dogma and source materials....as someone on the outside looking in without a bias for one over the other there really does not appear to be much difference in the validity of any one religion especially the main ones.

But to my knowledge Buddha nor Muhammad claimed divinity. The Hindu gods are altogether a different animal—basically idols and literally millions of them.

Only Jesus claimed divinity and his claims were supported by his miracles. We know from extra biblical sources that Jesus was considered a great healer:miracle worker, though the Jews attributed by miracles to magic/Satan.
 
Paul slaughtered many Christians before he was saved. So look at him as like a politician at first. I don’t look to go and spread Gods word. God will open their eyes if he wants someone to witness to them. As I said before I believe but we were raised to believe in Jesus just as other nations were raised to believe in their God. God said he would call his people unto him. It’s not us calling them to God. Talking any religion or beliefs is a slippery slope. I have always heard and seen those that put the fish or claim Christianity is the ones to watch out for. As he said in Luke. The man that stood on e corner and yelled I’m not like that man found no favor with God. Humble and letting the spirit work is my belief.
We were given a task... Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every nation, kindred, and tongue. God doesn't expect us to sit on our duffs while folks are dying and going to Hell.
 
Different subject. When does the age for accountability start for children? I know God loves all the children of the world, including adults lol but this conversation has been going on in my house for a while now.
It is different for every child. Some mentally handicap children may never reach the age to make that choice. However, it is widely accepted as being around 12 years of age. Mostly due to Jesus being 12 years old when he began to start his teaching.
 
This is why Christianity is to me a division to a lot of the world. Why a lot of people are called bible thumpers. As I once was in my younger days. Christians go out saying our beliefs are rights yours are wrong. Telling people they are going to hell if they don’t believe. Which makes many claim they believe by fear. Christianity has many many holes but does have more proof it’s real than others but Christianity also keeps changing. As a Christian I wonder at times do I worship a God that uses fear to make me believe in him? Would God really send a younger adult to hell when they were raised as another belief system? Jews don’t believe in him yet they are his chosen ones? Someone is raised as non Christian and is a really good person but never heard of Jesus. So he goes to Hell for doing nothing wrong? Thankfully we don’t have judges like that in courts. It’s all questions one day will be answered. Hopefully sooner rather than later. At the pace Christianity is disappearing there will not be many not going to hell in future generations. So if he waits another 100 years did he create all these people knowing they would go to Hell? Pretty sad if did. We all have our beliefs and I’m not going to push my Christianity on anyone. If the time is right to discuss it I will but not one Christian can win someone by telling them they are going to hell. Eventually that will backfire. Fear is not saving people in my eyes.
 
Sadly, a lot of Christians have missed the mark on how to make disciples. While I certainly believe in a literal hell that lasts for eternity, that has never been the chief mark of evangelism.

Jesus never said, “Go into all the earth scaring the hell out of people.” He said, “As you go, make disciples of all people, teaching them all that I have commanded you.” Furthermore, almost all of Jesus’ warnings about hell were issued to religious hypocrites; people who claimed to know God but proved otherwise.

Beyond the Great Commission, there are no commands in the NT regarding evangelism. The NT nowhere says, “Go scare the hell out of people.” But the NT does command Christians repeatedly to live and grow in Christ-likeness. And in the first three centuries of church history, Christians grew exponentially by doing just that. Their lives were so different and so Christ-like that they literally won the Roman Empire to Christ.

Unfortunately, we have lost sight of what genuine Christ-likeness and genuine discipleship looks like. Rather than Christ-like, much of modern evangelism looks like angry Pharisees.
 
Sadly, a lot of Christians have missed the mark on how to make disciples. While I certainly believe in a literal hell that lasts for eternity, that has never been the chief mark of evangelism.

Jesus never said, “Go into all the earth scaring the hell out of people.” He said, “As you go, make disciples of all people, teaching them all that I have commanded you.” Furthermore, almost all of Jesus’ warnings about hell were issued to religious hypocrites; people who claimed to know God but proved otherwise.

Beyond the Great Commission, there are no commands in the NT regarding evangelism. The NT nowhere says, “Go scare the hell out of people.” But the NT does command Christians repeatedly to live and grow in Christ-likeness. And in the first three centuries of church history, Christians grew exponentially by doing just that. Their lives were so different and so Christ-like that they literally won the Roman Empire to Christ.

Unfortunately, we have lost sight of what genuine Christ-likeness and genuine discipleship looks like. Rather than Christ-like, much of modern evangelism looks like angry Pharisees.
That's a good post and hits the mark. I do think it's fair to point out that Jesus had a lot to say about Hell. And I do think in many churches nowadays, because of the desire for inclusiveness and to placate all (or many) viewpoints, and because of the constant negative perception associated with the term "evangelicals", the message of Hell and the penalty for sin, and even sin itself, is watered down or shied away from. There's this growing notion of not wanting to offend anyone, even in the church. Unfortunately, it creates a watered-down, modernized Gospel.

To be Christ-like is to strive for holiness, which requires a hatred of sin and an understanding of its penalty. It's a message that needs to be of more frequent focus. Jesus offended. Sin offends God. A sinful world gets offended and defensive when sin is exposed.

None of that means going around from some imagined moral high ground, riding a white stallion, casting judgment upon the world. The Gospel should be shared with a spirit of love. But all of it should be, even the difficult, sad, and scary parts. I know you're not saying otherwise, but I just wanted to add that point.
 
Sadly, a lot of Christians have missed the mark on how to make disciples. While I certainly believe in a literal hell that lasts for eternity, that has never been the chief mark of evangelism.

Jesus never said, “Go into all the earth scaring the hell out of people.” He said, “As you go, make disciples of all people, teaching them all that I have commanded you.” Furthermore, almost all of Jesus’ warnings about hell were issued to religious hypocrites; people who claimed to know God but proved otherwise.

Beyond the Great Commission, there are no commands in the NT regarding evangelism. The NT nowhere says, “Go scare the hell out of people.” But the NT does command Christians repeatedly to live and grow in Christ-likeness. And in the first three centuries of church history, Christians grew exponentially by doing just that. Their lives were so different and so Christ-like that they literally won the Roman Empire to Christ.

Unfortunately, we have lost sight of what genuine Christ-likeness and genuine discipleship looks like. Rather than Christ-like, much of modern evangelism looks like angry Pharisees.
There are many passages in the Bible that tell us to fear God. Here are just a couple.... Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Matt 10:28 fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The fear of dying and going to Hell is what brought me to Christ. Sorry to be so blunt, but the fear of the punishment is what keeps us obedient even when it comes to abiding by our earthly laws. And yes, Hell is a very scary place. If people were able to get a glimpse of what it is really like, they would probably lose their mind. It's that horrible. Bottom line is that we should make decisions concerning our soul with "fear and trembling".
 
There are many passages in the Bible that tell us to fear God. Here are just a couple.... Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Matt 10:28 fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The fear of dying and going to Hell is what brought me to Christ. Sorry to be so blunt, but the fear of the punishment is what keeps us obedient even when it comes to abiding by our earthly laws. And yes, Hell is a very scary place. If people were able to get a glimpse of what it is really like, they would probably lose their mind. It's that horrible. Bottom line is that we should make decisions concerning our soul with "fear and trembling".

Why would a god want you to fear them? Also why would I worship any god that would do that to anyone, screw a god like that. Obey me or burn in this horrible existence for eternity....this is made especially worse since that god is not even real.....imagine spending your entire life living in fear of something that does not even exist.....
 
Why would a god want you to fear them? Also why would I worship any god that would do that to anyone, screw a god like that. Obey me or burn in this horrible existence for eternity....this is made especially worse since that god is not even real.....imagine spending your entire life living in fear of something that does not even exist.....
When I am nearing the end of my life and I look back on my years, I will not regret one minute of serving my God. I have had a wonderful life. I have had my prayers answered and I have been fortunate enough to have heard that "still small voice" more than once. Oh, don't get me wrong, God has chastened me on more than several occasions. However, I welcomed this with gratitude and I understood why.
The difference between you and me is this .... When you are nearing the end of your life, and you face your mortality, you will ponder these two words..... "What If....." It will not matter how much money you have, or how good of a life you have lived.
Psalm 14:1 ....The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I know you don't believe it now, but one day you will. Romans 14:11 says "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God".
 
When I am nearing the end of my life and I look back on my years, I will not regret one minute of serving my God. I have had a wonderful life. I have had my prayers answered and I have been fortunate enough to have heard that "still small voice" more than once. Oh, don't get me wrong, God has chastened me on more than several occasions. However, I welcomed this with gratitude and I understood why.
The difference between you and me is this .... When you are nearing the end of your life, and you face your mortality, you will ponder these two words..... "What If....." It will not matter how much money you have, or how good of a life you have lived.
Psalm 14:1 ....The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I know you don't believe it now, but one day you will. Romans 14:11 says "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God".

I wont be asking "what if", I know there is no god, at least as conceived by man, I admit however that my atheism while it is rooted strongly in science and logic leaves a tiny bit of room for there to be some form of a higher intelligence/being/power....I am 100% convinced if such a power exist it is not in the form of your Christian god or any other god any person on earth believes in, but regardless of how miniscule the possibility that such a thing exist I must include the .00001% chance it does.
 
This is why Christianity is to me a division to a lot of the world. Why a lot of people are called bible thumpers. As I once was in my younger days. Christians go out saying our beliefs are rights yours are wrong. Telling people they are going to hell if they don’t believe. Which makes many claim they believe by fear. Christianity has many many holes but does have more proof it’s real than others but Christianity also keeps changing. As a Christian I wonder at times do I worship a God that uses fear to make me believe in him? Would God really send a younger adult to hell when they were raised as another belief system? Jews don’t believe in him yet they are his chosen ones? Someone is raised as non Christian and is a really good person but never heard of Jesus. So he goes to Hell for doing nothing wrong? Thankfully we don’t have judges like that in courts. It’s all questions one day will be answered. Hopefully sooner rather than later. At the pace Christianity is disappearing there will not be many not going to hell in future generations. So if he waits another 100 years did he create all these people knowing they would go to Hell? Pretty sad if did. We all have our beliefs and I’m not going to push my Christianity on anyone. If the time is right to discuss it I will but not one Christian can win someone by telling them they are going to hell. Eventually that will backfire. Fear is not saving people in my eyes.

Regarding what I bolded: This is 100% false. From where did you get that info? Judaism is the first monotheistic religion. Actually, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the three major monotheistic religions, all believe in and worship the same almighty creator. I assume most people know this from basic history, even if they aren't a member of any of these three religions.
 
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