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The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
—Psalm 19:1–3
There is a language in nature that speaks of the existence of God. It is the language of order, beauty, perfection, and intelligence. Some time ago a scientist told me that when he gave serious thought to the majestic order of the universe and its obedience to unchanging law, he could not help but believe in God. He had become aware that God was speaking through nature.

God speaks in the certainty and regularity of the seasons; in the precision of the movements of the sun, the moon, and the stars; in the regular coming of night and day; in the balance between man’s consumption of life-giving oxygen and its production by the plant life of the earth; and even in the cry of a newborn child with its ever-new dimension of the miracle of life.

BGEA
 
Obviously the answer is no. You cannot expect Christianity to bring about unity in a secular/pluralistic society.

But one thing American Christians would do well to understand is that Christianity has historically flourished when it is a marginalized group with little to no political/socio-economic standing in society.

We need to recover what it means to advance and promote God’s Kingdom and the values of God’s kingdom independently from the political process.
But as Christians, God gives us discernment and power to carry out biblical principles no matter what the culture is. We are not supposed to sit idly by letting everything go on like we are wimps waiting on the rapture. We are here for a reason.
 
But as Christians, God gives us discernment and power to carry out biblical principles no matter what the culture is. We are not supposed to sit idly by letting everything go on like we are wimps waiting on the rapture. We are here for a reason.

I agree, and I am not suggesting that we shouldn't vote and that we shouldn't promote a more just/godly society. The problem, as I see it, is that too many of us have grown to equate saving America as saving Christianity; or promoting Republican candidates as the same as promoting the gospel. The Bible tells us that we are citizens of heaven--that is our first allegiance; the kingdom of heaven is what we promote first and foremost. When we loudly and proudly support someone such as Trump, we do more to hinder our cause than to promote it. Just my opinion.
 
I agree, and I am not suggesting that we shouldn't vote and that we shouldn't promote a more just/godly society. The problem, as I see it, is that too many of us have grown to equate saving America as saving Christianity; or promoting Republican candidates as the same as promoting the gospel. The Bible tells us that we are citizens of heaven--that is our first allegiance; the kingdom of heaven is what we promote first and foremost. When we loudly and proudly support someone such as Trump, we do more to hinder our cause than to promote it. Just my opinion.
I agree too. The church has stopped functioning as the orig intent which is evident in society.
 
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I agree, and I am not suggesting that we shouldn't vote and that we shouldn't promote a more just/godly society. The problem, as I see it, is that too many of us have grown to equate saving America as saving Christianity; or promoting Republican candidates as the same as promoting the gospel. The Bible tells us that we are citizens of heaven--that is our first allegiance; the kingdom of heaven is what we promote first and foremost. When we loudly and proudly support someone such as Trump, we do more to hinder our cause than to promote it. Just my opinion.
We do more for our cause when we stand up for the unborn who are slaughtered by the millions , not be ashamed of something as simple as the 10 commandments being posted on some govt property, not consider preaching the word of God as hate speech cause it steps on someones toes, lifestyles.
We need to be a good steward with not just our money,but our time,talents,gifts,voice,job etc. I am accountable to God for what I stand for and why. There is and always will be a spiritual war going on in this world. My problem isnt Joe Biden,Donald Trump,Nancy Pelosi, the Rnc,Dnc. Its the wiles of the devil.
 
I agree too. The church has stopped functioning as the orig intent which is evident in society.
The church has conformed to the world when it should be the other way around. To much worldlinesss in the church today is point Im trying to make. The church isnt just 4 walls, but us as individual beleivers.
 
The church has conformed to the world when it should be the other way around. To much worldlinesss in the church today is point Im trying to make. The church isnt just 4 walls, but us as individual beleivers.

As a atheist I cringe when I read these kind of statements...I think there are two kinds of Christians, those that are just trying to find their way and those that live it as a "lifestyle", the second group are the ones I particularly have a hard time dealing with,

I have members of my extended family like that and its super annoying. If people want to become a Christian then fine but don't tell me I need to do this that or the other thing or if you feel compelled to tell me it do it ONCE...then move on, I have had friends as well do the same thing, its why I sometimes just smile and nod and keep my atheism to myself, so many uppity Christians think they have to save my soul its annoying, that and the friends that have literally decided to not be close friends with me after learning I don't believe in god, people I have known for years....its sad.
 
As a atheist I cringe when I read these kind of statements...I think there are two kinds of Christians, those that are just trying to find their way and those that live it as a "lifestyle", the second group are the ones I particularly have a hard time dealing with,

I have members of my extended family like that and its super annoying. If people want to become a Christian then fine but don't tell me I need to do this that or the other thing or if you feel compelled to tell me it do it ONCE...then move on, I have had friends as well do the same thing, its why I sometimes just smile and nod and keep my atheism to myself, so many uppity Christians think they have to save my soul its annoying, that and the friends that have literally decided to not be close friends with me after learning I don't believe in god, people I have known for years....its sad.
Friend the decession you make in regards to your soul is between you and God. Yes my relationship with Jesus Christ dictates my lifestyle. Trust me I dont walk on water, certainly am not perfect and In Gods eyes he values you just as much as he does me. The Bible is very plain about that.
I value and cherish life as well as this awesome planet God created. Im so thankfull I get to wake up every morning and enjoy life. But this is not my eternal home. I will never stop bragging about Jesus and what hes done for me. Ive got something I wish everyone else could have , and they can if they choose so. God leaves that decession solely up to you. I have several friends,family members who arent born again Christians. I love them to death. Have them over to the house,talk regularly etc. But now Im not gonna go down to the bar and hang out with them or miss church on Sunday morning to go play Golf. My whole heart, being is surrendered unto God 1st. Then family,friends,country. Hope that helps. There is a verse in the bible "Greater is he that is in me,than he that is in the world."
 
Friend the decession you make in regards to your soul is between you and God. Yes my relationship with Jesus Christ dictates my lifestyle. Trust me I dont walk on water, certainly am not perfect and In Gods eyes he values you just as much as he does me. The Bible is very plain about that.
I value and cherish life as well as this awesome planet God created. Im so thankfull I get to wake up every morning and enjoy life. But this is not my eternal home. I will never stop bragging about Jesus and what hes done for me. Ive got something I wish everyone else could have , and they can if they choose so. God leaves that decession solely up to you. I have several friends,family members who arent born again Christians. I love them to death. Have them over to the house,talk regularly etc. But now Im not gonna go down to the bar and hang out with them or miss church on Sunday morning to go play Golf. My whole heart, being is surrendered unto God 1st. Then family,friends,country. Hope that helps. There is a verse in the bible "Greater is he that is in me,than he that is in the world."

That's all fine and well, as long as you respect their choices on what they choose to believe then its no big deal, I speak of those friends and family that feel they have to constantly push god on me since I am a heathen.....and it just makes me resent them or not hang around them. The same with the ones that cant post on FB without working god into their post, these same people that cheat on their mates, or have drinking problems etc.....

I guess what you replied to my post with is opposite of how I took the statement "The church has conformed to the world when it should be the other way around" which seems kind of menacing to someone like me.
 
That's all fine and well, as long as you respect their choices on what they choose to believe then its no big deal, I speak of those friends and family that feel they have to constantly push god on me since I am a heathen.....and it just makes me resent them or not hang around them. The same with the ones that cant post on FB without working god into their post, these same people that cheat on their mates, or have drinking problems etc.....

I guess what you replied to my post with is opposite of how I took the statement "The church has conformed to the world when it should be the other way around" which seems kind of menacing to someone like me.
Just because someone cheats or is an alcoholic and those same people put God in their posts doesn't mean they are bad people. Actually they are human with flaws just like me and you, and maybe they are acknowledging their need for God to intervene and make their lives better, free from addiction.
 
Just because someone cheats or is an alcoholic and those same people put God in their posts doesn't mean they are bad people. Actually they are human with flaws just like me and you, and maybe they are acknowledging their need for God to intervene and make their lives better, free from addiction.

Maybe but it comes across kinda preachy and then they judge me on my atheism while I don't do things like cheat on my wife or have a drinking problem but since I don't live a "clean" Christian life like themselves I am not as good a person as they are.....and trust me there are TONS of people like this out there. If I try to point out any of this then I am attacking Christians and they are all soooooo persecuted :rolleyes:
 
Maybe but it comes across kinda preachy and then they judge me on my atheism while I don't do things like cheat on my wife or have a drinking problem but since I don't live a "clean" Christian life like themselves I am not as good a person as they are.....and trust me there are TONS of people like this out there. If I try to point out any of this then I am attacking Christians and they are all soooooo persecuted :rolleyes:
Yeah there are tons of people that try to show how knowledgeable they are or how holy they are, but when it comes down to it they just think they have to act a certain way to appease man. All that matters is the relationship with Christ.
 
Maybe but it comes across kinda preachy and then they judge me on my atheism while I don't do things like cheat on my wife or have a drinking problem but since I don't live a "clean" Christian life like themselves I am not as good a person as they are.....and trust me there are TONS of people like this out there. If I try to point out any of this then I am attacking Christians and they are all soooooo persecuted :rolleyes:

I say you should persecute them if that is the case. If they really are Christians, calling out their blatant sins will convict them, leading them to repentance. If they aren't convicted enough to change, then they aren't Christians.
 
I agree, and I am not suggesting that we shouldn't vote and that we shouldn't promote a more just/godly society. The problem, as I see it, is that too many of us have grown to equate saving America as saving Christianity; or promoting Republican candidates as the same as promoting the gospel. The Bible tells us that we are citizens of heaven--that is our first allegiance; the kingdom of heaven is what we promote first and foremost. When we loudly and proudly support someone such as Trump, we do more to hinder our cause than to promote it. Just my opinion.
You will stand before God and give an account of how you voted and who you supported. I would not want to stand before God and have to tell him I voted for someone who supported killing his unborn children. That's why we Christians support Republican candidates. Always will...
 
You will stand before God and give an account of how you voted and who you supported. I would not want to stand before God and have to tell him I voted for someone who supported killing his unborn children. That's why we Christians support Republican candidates. Always will...

Where in Scripture does it say you will be accountable for a vote for a politician? Can you back that up? Is abortion the only political issue God cares about? Is he not equally concerned with economic justice (hello OT prophets)? The idea that one of two political parties solely represents God is absurd--absolutely absurd.
 
What about sexual assault? Does God not care about sexual assault? Is God good with supporting an anti-abortion candidate who has admitted to sexually assaulting women on tape; a man who claims he does not sin and does not need forgiveness? What's the different between sexual assault and abortion in the eyes of God? Does God grade on a curve? How does that work exactly?
 
Yeah there are tons of people that try to show how knowledgeable they are or how holy they are, but when it comes down to it they just think they have to act a certain way to appease man. All that matters is the relationship with Christ.
This times 1000. Very well said.
I put a lot of scripture quotes on here, but its to share with others who can take or leave. No way is it intended to show I can win a Bible knowledge quiz lol or that Im some great saint etc.
For Downeast and others its your decession and has to be made by you,for yourself. I ,nor anyone else have the authority to judge you for the decision you choose to make or any other aspect of your life. The Bible is very clear about that. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
On the other hand as a christian I have everyright to judge , speak out against the sin. And its the Bible that defines what is and what isnt sin.
But its imperative of me to continously examine myself ,and get my house in order on a individual basis, before I try to represent or share Gods word with someone else. The biggest testimony I have isnt the words I speak,but the actions of my lifesryle I live. "Judge a tree by the fruit it bares". Be a waste of time if I said ,quoted scripture about showing compassion to other people,then when I cross paths with someone who disagrees with me and treat them dispespectfully.
But please dont ever think I myself as a Christian or anyone else you know is a Christian are perfect. We are not. If we where we wouldnt need Jesus to pay ALL our sin debt. Thats past,present,future. Also Just because I have a relationship with Jesus, doesnt mean I have a license to do anything I want to do because I have a get of jail free card, since all I have to do is confess my sin and the bible says he will forgive me. True repentance means to turn away from that sin. Own up to it and change( actions).
 
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Accountability


Introduction
The apostle Paul warns the Christian community against the evil of judging one another concerning certain doubtful or debatable practices151 where one Christian holds one opinion and another a different opinion. He then concludes this portion of his argument with a reminder of every Christian’s accountability at the Judgment Seat of God. He writes:
But why do you judge your brother or sister? Or again, why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God.” 12 Therefore, each of us will give an account of himself to God (Rom 14:10-12)..
The stark reality of Scripture is that every person, Christian and non-Christian, is accountable before a sovereign God (see Rom. 3:9-19) and will one day have to bow before Christ (Phil. 2:9-11). Jesus said, “From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, even more will be asked” (Luke 12:48b). Many reject this declaration of Scripture by all manner of human rationalizations and bias, but their rejection cannot alter the reality of accountability.

Jesus emphatically taught that a day of judgment is coming when every person will have to give an account. For instance, in a context where the Pharisees had spoken evil of Jesus by attributing His miracle to Satan, Jesus condemned them as a brood of vipers who could never say anything good since their hearts were evil. He then went on to make the point that people are responsible for all their actions and words, which will acquit or condemn them on the day of judgment. In Matthew 12:36 He said, “I tell you that on the day of judgment, people will give an account for every worthless word they speak.”
Unfortunately, however, man is a rebel who wants to do his own thing without any or very little accountability for his actions. Since the fall of man (Gen. 3), this has been the case, but a worldwide phenomenon of our day is a defiance of any form of established authority whether religious or secular, social or political. This sad reality has colored the beliefs and actions of our present society worldwide. Without a sense of accountability to a sovereign God, the world can quickly gravitate in the direction of the ruthless acts and tyranny of people like Hitler. When God either does not exist in the beliefs of men or when the truth about God is distorted into man’s own image of who and what God is like, everything is permitted, morally speaking.
Today, we live in a time when, having fundamentally rejected the absolutes and clear teachings of Scripture, man seeks to make God accountable to him for his comfort and pleasure. Thus, people are not only doing what is right in their own eyes, but the prevailing attitude is ‘Do your own thing. You are only accountable to yourself and your own self-fulfillment.’ This is a shift from a God-centered perspective of life to a man-centered perspective. This is all part of man’s attempt to dismiss any accountability to God. The reality is that when men seek to ignore accountability to God and others, they leave themselves vulnerable to the cold misery of slavery and eventually to the menace of a dictator.
Accountability to God and to one another according to the directives of Scripture is the foundation for freedom and liberty. But what is true freedom and wherein lies its source? Freedom is not the right to do as one pleases as a capricious child. Certainly it means the capacity to exercise choice, but never so that it is devoid of responsibility or accountability. Freedom is both the responsibility and the ability, by the grace of God, to do what is right according to the absolute and righteous standards of truth as given to us in God’s Holy Word. Many see freedom as the right to abandon accountability to God and men in order to do what they please in the promotion of self gratification. But that is not freedom. It is slavery, or at least leads to slavery. Speaking of false teachers who either twist Scripture to their own self-centered objectives or deny its authority altogether, Peter writes, “…promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved” (2 Pet. 2:19). Beliefs or one’s world view always has consequences. It is like a train which is free to do what it was created to do as long as it is on its track.
Accountability is one of the means God uses to bring about solid growth and maturity with the freedom to be what God has created us for. But as we’ve just stressed, the problem is that we live in a society that has become very individualistic. The prevailing attitude is be your own man or woman, do your own thing, be your own boss, and often this attitude is promoted or stated in a way that undermines accountability to God and others. The Bible in no way denies our individualism. Indeed, it promotes it, but in a way that holds us each accountable to others. Proper individualism leads to a certain amount of inventiveness, ingenuity, and freedom, but it can also breed license and irresponsibility without accountability. The fact is you can’t make disciples or produce growing and mature Christians without accountability.
So again, true freedom is not the ability to do as one pleases, which is license, but the power by God’s grace to do as one ought. But what do we mean by accountability?
The Meaning of Accountability, What it is
By accountability, we are not talking about coercive tactics, the invasion of privacy, or bringing others under the weight of someone’s taboos or legalism or manipulative or dominating tactics. Rather, by accountability we mean developing relationships with other Christians that help to promote spiritual reality, honesty, obedience to God, and genuine evaluations of one’s walk and relationship with God and with others. We are talking about relationships that help believers change by the Spirit of God and the truth of the Word of God through inward spiritual conviction and faith.
Being what we are, sheep that are prone to wander, accountability to others is simply one of the ways God holds us accountable to Him. Left to ourselves, there is the great temptation to do mainly what we want rather than what God wants and what is best for others. So what is meant by accountability? We are talking about teaching, exhorting, supporting, and encouraging one another in such a way that it promotes accountability to Christ and to others in the body of Christ, but never by manipulation or domination.
The Necessity of Accountability, Why we need it.

from Bible.org
 
Where in Scripture does it say you will be accountable for a vote for a politician? Can you back that up? Is abortion the only political issue God cares about? Is he not equally concerned with economic justice (hello OT prophets)? The idea that one of two political parties solely represents God is absurd--absolutely absurd.
Its not which one represents God, cause both fail misearably, just like you and me from time to time as Im sure we can agree.
Its more than abortion for me personally. I look at both platforms. Every candidate that has run,is runing,and will run for polotical office has many flaws.
I look at policy to base my position off of. The 1st one is to see which of the 2 candidates will even acknowledge God, Jesus Christ as the creator of this universe. Then I start working through issues such as abortion, trying to help those less fortunate, stand up for peace but at the same time be willing to stand up for human rights.
I prayfully try to make the best decession I can and go vote. No one in washington DC, Raleigh NC can solve mans main problem. Only God can do that.
Thankfully all my sins past,present,future are forgiven. Because of Jesus,not anything I did. So I have a duty to be a good steward of everything in my life God has blessed me with. One of the many is being a good citizen in a country that is so richly blessed. I will vote, debate political issues. But at the end of the day,if my preference looses, the Sun will come up tommorow and God is still on the throne.
 
I think the case about being accountable for who we vote for can be made in the verse where it states every idle word will be judged and again in the verse that states to be aware who we will Godspeed to. That said if anyone wants to use this interpretation, you had really watch and research every angle, opinion and belief of who you vote for to see if anything they say or have done hurts the cause of Christ and your testimony. I’m not saying to not vote for anyone who has sinned(because we all are guilty) and the person must be perfect, but you can see a truly repentant heart.
 
Its not which one represents God, cause both fail misearably, just like you and me from time to time as Im sure we can agree.
Its more than abortion for me personally. I look at both platforms. Every candidate that has run,is runing,and will run for polotical office has many flaws.
I look at policy to base my position off of. The 1st one is to see which of the 2 candidates will even acknowledge God, Jesus Christ as the creator of this universe. Then I start working through issues such as abortion, trying to help those less fortunate, stand up for peace but at the same time be willing to stand up for human rights.
I prayfully try to make the best decession I can and go vote. No one in washington DC, Raleigh NC can solve mans main problem. Only God can do that.
Thankfully all my sins past,present,future are forgiven. Because of Jesus,not anything I did. So I have a duty to be a good steward of everything in my life God has blessed me with. One of the many is being a good citizen in a country that is so richly blessed. I will vote, debate political issues. But at the end of the day,if my preference looses, the Sun will come up tommorow and God is still on the throne.
One party sides with life and freedom, another party sides with control and enlightened bondage masked as freedom.
 
Where in Scripture does it say you will be accountable for a vote for a politician? Can you back that up? Is abortion the only political issue God cares about? Is he not equally concerned with economic justice (hello OT prophets)? The idea that one of two political parties solely represents God is absurd--absolutely absurd.
Well, you say you are a preacher.... you know that you will be judged on who you choose to align yourself with and who you choose to follow. Hello, old testament (Numbers 16)......"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. This was the punishment for aligning themselves against Moses.
I get the feeling that your beliefs are a little bit too modern for my way of thinking. I am a true "Old-time religion" Holy Ghost, Bible believing Christian who puts his trust in the Bible of my grandfather (KJV by the way) and his father before him. For it is written, "broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.....strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it". I think we all know what the scriptures are talking about here..... There will be only a few that make it to Heaven compared to the Billions that have lived here on earth. Let that sobering thought sink in..... Mathew chapter 7 is always worth a re-read. Here's a bit more from that chapter. This is Jesus speaking by the way...
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Everyone needs to really do a little "soul-searching" to make sure that our name are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Phil 2:12 .....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That doesn't mean you can work your way to Heaven. It means you need to make sure that you know where your soul will spend eternity.
 
Well, you say you are a preacher.... you know that you will be judged on who you choose to align yourself with and who you choose to follow. Hello, old testament (Numbers 16)......"And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. This was the punishment for aligning themselves against Moses.
I get the feeling that your beliefs are a little bit too modern for my way of thinking. I am a true "Old-time religion" Holy Ghost, Bible believing Christian who puts his trust in the Bible of my grandfather (KJV by the way) and his father before him. For it is written, "broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.....strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it". I think we all know what the scriptures are talking about here..... There will be only a few that make it to Heaven compared to the Billions that have lived here on earth. Let that sobering thought sink in..... Mathew chapter 7 is always worth a re-read. Here's a bit more from that chapter. This is Jesus speaking by the way...
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Everyone needs to really do a little "soul-searching" to make sure that our name are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Phil 2:12 .....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That doesn't mean you can work your way to Heaven. It means you need to make sure that you know where your soul will spend eternity.

Answer my question: How is it that God is okay with you aligning yourself with a man who has admitted to sexually assaulting women and saying that he does not sin and does not need to repent?

And by the way--you totally quote the Bible out of context. But this does not surprise me.
 
People who say, "I'm of the old-time religion," have no idea that their "old-time" religion goes back about 200 years, tops. And it looks nothing like the New Testament church, let alone anything like the grace of Jesus Christ.

If you came and sat under my preaching you might be surprised by what you hear. I preach the Bible verse by verse, book by book, week by week, in context. Doing so challenges many of our preconceived notions that have been handed down over the years that may or may not be true. But at any rate, you will always hear me present the Gospel, and depending on the text, you will often hear about Judgment and sin and such.

In fact, this week is a perfect example, as I will be preaching from Genesis 34, which oddly enough talks about rape, from which I will make the point that God does not stand for that and he judges it harshly, and especially those who are unrepentant, as evidenced in the text.

The bottom line @Cad Wedge NC is this: you don't know what you think you know. You only know what you want to know or what you have been told to know.
 
 

Yeah, I think we can all agree that there has not been much fruit there to prove that genuine.
 
His election was prophesied by multiple,multiple pastors in the years to months prior to the election. The earliest I've seen is from 2008. And all of those same people are saying he's going to win in 2020 . The great uncovering is happening
Yes its messy and not pretty. He is fulfilling something only he could do. I would hope that God would never not use me because of my past sins.
 
His election was prophesied by multiple,multiple pastors in the years to months prior to the election. The earliest I've seen is from 2008. And all of those same people are saying he's going to win in 2020 . The great uncovering is happening
Yes its messy and not pretty. He is fulfilling something only he could do. I would hope that God would never not use me because of my past sins.

Obviously, Scripture is filled with examples of God using people despite their past. And I feel the same as you. I have not always been a pastor. But here's the thing: those who have sinned the "most" and experienced God's grace should in turn be filled with the same grace. Mr. Trump--at least in his public personae-- has exhibited zero signs of grace and repentance.

Again, he was shown on video admitting to sexually assaulting women and to my knowledge has never publicly repented of such behavior.
 
Obviously, Scripture is filled with examples of God using people despite their past. And I feel the same as you. I have not always been a pastor. But here's the thing: those who have sinned the "most" and experienced God's grace should in turn be filled with the same grace. Mr. Trump--at least in his public personae-- has exhibited zero signs of grace and repentance.

Again, he was shown on video admitting to sexually assaulting women and to my knowledge has never publicly repented of such behavior.
I made fun of trump when he announced. I remember I was totally against that "clown".
 
It's interesting that Mr. Trump always talks about hoaxes perpetuated against him. Has anyone stopped to consider that the greatest hoax of all is Trump convincing millions of evangelicals that he's one of them?
 
It's interesting that Mr. Trump always talks about hoaxes perpetuated against him. Has anyone stopped to consider that the greatest hoax of all is Trump convincing millions of evangelicals that he's one of them?
If it's a hoax, its sure a good one for us.
 
People who say, "I'm of the old-time religion," have no idea that their "old-time" religion goes back about 200 years, tops. And it looks nothing like the New Testament church, let alone anything like the grace of Jesus Christ.

If you came and sat under my preaching you might be surprised by what you hear. I preach the Bible verse by verse, book by book, week by week, in context. Doing so challenges many of our preconceived notions that have been handed down over the years that may or may not be true. But at any rate, you will always hear me present the Gospel, and depending on the text, you will often hear about Judgment and sin and such.

In fact, this week is a perfect example, as I will be preaching from Genesis 34, which oddly enough talks about rape, from which I will make the point that God does not stand for that and he judges it harshly, and especially those who are unrepentant, as evidenced in the text.

The bottom line @Cad Wedge NC is this: you don't know what you think you know. You only know what you want to know or what you have been told to know.
Have you ever really taken the time to listen to the teachings of D.L. Moody, Dr. Dolphus Price, Dr. Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Bob Jones Sr., Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, Estus Pirkle... just to name a few? . Are you familiar with CI Scofield? I have...... and I think I will take what they have to say over you all day long. So, yes, I know what I have read and what I have been taught. You have to understand, the Bible has been a part of my daily life since I was a child. I went to a private Christian school and the Bible (KJV) was taught to us every single day. We were also taught the Greek and Hebrew meanings for most passages. So, yes, I am truly able to converse with a broad Biblical intelligence. I really don't appreciate the condescending tone. You are certainly not going to enlighten me on anything.
 
Have you ever really taken the time to listen to the teachings of D.L. Moody, Dr. Dolphus Price, Dr. Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Bob Jones Sr., Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, Estus Pirkle... just to name a few? . Are you familiar with CI Scofield? I have...... and I think I will take what they have to say over you all day long. So, yes, I know what I have read and what I have been taught. You have to understand, the Bible has been a part of my daily life since I was a child. I went to a private Christian school and the Bible (KJV) was taught to us every single day. We were also taught the Greek and Hebrew meanings for most passages. So, yes, I am truly able to converse with a broad Biblical intelligence. I really don't appreciate the condescending tone. You are certainly not going to enlighten me on anything.
If you recall, you started the condescending tone and have continued it.
You still have not answered my question: how is it ok to support a candidate who has admitted to sexual assault and never repented of it? How is that ok with God? If you want respect, stop dodging questions.
 
If you recall, you started the condescending tone and have continued it.
You still have not answered my question: how is it ok to support a candidate who has admitted to sexual assault and never repented of it? How is that ok with God? If you want respect, stop dodging questions.
There is not one person who is sinless. When choosing a pres. candidate, it comes down to a few basic things, what does the person stand for? Does he believe in God? Does he love America? Will he back Israel? Does he believe in the sanctity of life? etc... I will also pray that God would help me make the right choice. I truly believe that God sometimes uses less-than-perfect people to accomplish His will. We all have sin in our lives. How do you know that Trump has not repented of his sin? Only God knows that..... let's not forget that when you vote for the president you are voting for 2 people. If Trump's vice presidential candidate was evil, I wouldn't vote for Trump. However, this is not the case. Please let us know what criteria you use to make your political choices.
 
Where I come from, public sin is publicly confessed and repented. Mr. Trump has not done that to my knowledge.

So far in this thread you have suggested that those who don’t use the KJV and who don’t vote Republican are not true Christians. All of the above add to the Gospel; it is unscriptural and untenable.
 
Hating the Sin Without Judging the Sinner
Rev. Mr. Matthew Newsome
Rev. Mr. Matthew Newsome

Jun 26, 2017 · 4 min read


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We’ve had an invasion of ants in our yard this year. In an attempt to mitigate the situation, I purchased some heavy-duty ant poison which I mixed up in a spray bottle, which I then — unfortunately — left out on our porch after using. I realized my mistake when I looked out the window to see one of my younger sons spraying his little brother with it.
I quickly dashed outside and took the bottle away from him. He thought there was just water in it and was using it as a squirt gun. As I washed them both down with the garden hose, I explained why it is dangerous to play with unknown spray bottles.
Before I sprang into action, I made a judgment. I didn’t judge my kids. I knew they were acting out of ignorance. I did chastise myself for leaving the ant spray where the kids could find it. But most importantly, I made an immediate judgment that my children’s actions were not safe. That judgment on my part enabled me to quickly step in and prevent any real harm from being done.
There is a lesson here about the proper way we are to interpret Christ’s command not to judge others, as given in Matthew 7:1–6.
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
It is clear from this passage that Christians are forbidden from judging others. The judgement Christ is talking about is a judgment upon another’s soul. Christ tells us that if we judge others harshly, we can expect to be harshly judged. All of us have sinned. It is hypocritical for us to condemn other people when we also deserve condemnation. If we expect God to have mercy on us, we need to extend that mercy to others. Indeed, this is what we pray for any time we say the Lord’s Prayer. “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” (Mt 6:12).
But there is another popular maxim among Christians: Hate the sin; love the sinner. Lately people have started to display a negative attitude toward this phrase. Admittedly it has become somewhat of a cliche, but there is truth to these words. It makes an important distinction between actions and persons.
Many reject this saying today because society has associated certain sinful actions (especially when it comes to sexual morality) with personal identity, so that to “hate the sin” is tantamount to “hating the sinner.” This makes the statement appear hypocritical. This is unfortunate, because the distinction between the sin and the sinner is a real one. Understanding this distinction is the key to making right judgments.
Imagine you saw someone pick up a glass you knew was full of a poisonous liquid. They bring it up to their lips and begin to take a drink. What do you do? I hope you would shout out, “Stop, that’s poisonous!” or even rush forward to knock the glass out of their hand.
In doing so, you have made a judgment. You judged this person’s action to be harmful, and intervened to stop them. This did not require you to make any sort of judgment about the person. Did they know the glass was poisonous and were trying to commit suicide? Are they suffering from delusions and think they are immune to poison? Perhaps they mistakenly thought the glass was full of water and were only trying to quench their thirst. Or maybe they have a physiological condition that makes them crave something in the poison. Who knows?
You don’t need to know anything about their knowledge or intention in order to make an objective judgment about their action. Far from condemning them for their action, your judgment allows you to display your love for them by working for their good.
Love at its root means to desire the good of the other. To love, then, requires us to make judgments about what is good and what is not.
Just as poison is harmful to our bodies, sin is harmful to our souls. We “hate the sin” precisely because we “love the sinner.” Warning someone about the danger of sin is no more of a condemnation of the person than warning them about the dangers of drinking poison.
 
Countless stories ,passages in the bible about hating the sin and not the sinner. We all fail at times doing this. I think of Jonah as one example. He despised Nineveh and how ungodly the people where,turned their back on the Lord,living in sin. However God wanted him to go directly to those folks and give his message to them. Its not Gods desire to see anyone perish an unrepenting sinner and be seperated from him eternally. He makes no exceptions for this as he is a Holy and Just God. He gives everyone the freedom to choose his invitation of grace and mercy. He knows what we need and knows us better than we know ourselves.

No doubt probably the hardest thing to do as a christian is be longsuffering. That requires making ourselves available to others and patience with folks. Getting outside our comfort zone. But we should be burdened for everyone just as God has had to be burdened with our ownselves and be longsuffering towards us. Easier said than done. I have and have to safeguard against watching,listening to news,our lawmakers ,leaders on a national,state and local level.

1st Timothy Chapter 2 instructs me as a Christian to pray for kings and all those who are in authority without ceasing.
 
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Where I come from, public sin is publicly confessed and repented. Mr. Trump has not done that to my knowledge.

So far in this thread you have suggested that those who don’t use the KJV and who don’t vote Republican are not true Christians. All of the above add to the Gospel; it is unscriptural and untenable.
He didn't commit that sin in public. Sure the public knows about it, but we don't know if he has confessed it or not. Do you stand before your congregation and confess all your sins each week. Just saying.... and yes I understand 1st John 1:9 perfectly well. No, I am not saying that you will go to Hell if you don't use the KJV. I am saying that when it comes to where my soul will spend all of eternity, I choose to trust the translation that was handed down from generation to generation for hundreds of years. Tell me this...... how many English translations of Moby ---- are there? That's right, there's only 1.... because we don't need someone re-writing it and giving us there interpretation.
 
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