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Misc All Things Religious

WEATHERBOYROY

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A point of fact to the beginning of the universe, science does not state there was nothing before the big bang, there are lots of theories out there about what state the universe was in prior to the big bang...but nothing is a commonly accepted one

The reason none is accepted, there is no natural possibility! It must be SUPER NATURAL ( DIVINE ) ! Bless your heart!
 

Poimen

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A point of fact to the beginning of the universe, science does not state there was nothing before the big bang, there are lots of theories out there about what state the universe was in prior to the big bang...but nothing is a commonly accepted one
You sure about that?
 

Downeastnc

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You sure about that?
Yeah for the most part science admits it does not understand the universe state prior to the big bang and there are a lot of theories out there as to what the universe was prior to the big bang but science also says it is beyond the ability of science to know what was occurring....this article touches on some of them briefly and I have seen lots of others....but nothing is not a prevalent one.

 

WEATHERBOYROY

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You gotta stop with this condescending stuff. It’s showing your immaturity

I apologize if I come across as condescending. it should be quite the contrary. I know I'm not as smart as most people, so it's frustrating when the obvious is so hard to see. You guys are too intelligent to blindly follow what you do.
 

WEATHERBOYROY

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LOL....I don't understand it so it must be magic sky daddy who did it.....

It's not I don't understand, It is you are trying to justify a belief system (religion) that has a terrible flaw. It is one that runs out of gas when it get's to the part it has to make logical sense. It is a belief that everything naturally occurs, but the natural laws of physics say no way. even the made up pseudo science of natural evolution needs super natural help. You really can't see that?
 

Poimen

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Yeah for the most part science admits it does not understand the universe state prior to the big bang and there are a lot of theories out there as to what the universe was prior to the big bang but science also says it is beyond the ability of science to know what was occurring....this article touches on some of them briefly and I have seen lots of others....but nothing is not a prevalent one.

Science does not understand a lot of things that are nevertheless taught--shall we say--as religious dogma.

With regards to the universe before the Big Bang, I think you’re playing a bit of semantics. The universe did not exist as we know it--and most believe what became the universe was contained in one subatomic particle--that's basically nothing.

Either way, my original point still stands. The Bible and science share much common ground if one is willing to admit it--and that goes for people on both sides of the divide.
 
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pcbjr

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With this ... Dear brothers, I bid you goodnight ...

Small wheel turns by the fire and rod
Big wheel turns by the grace of God
Every time that wheel turns 'round
You're bound to cover just a little more ground ...
 

Downeastnc

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What year is it? Why is it dated two thousand and twenty?
well that depends on who you ask. The world agreed to use the Gregorian calendar for simplification and since it is the closest to a actual revolution of the earth around the sun however there are numerous other active calendars......the Gregorian for instance is based on the Julian calendar which is currently on year 2773. The Hebrew calendar is on year 5780, China is on 4718 ( year of the rat ), the Muslim calendar is on year 1441....these calendars are all still in use...

 

NCSNOW

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Since the topic of prayer answered v/s unanswered was part of the discussion in here yesterday, saw this verse this morning, just passing along.
"Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails." Proverbs 19:21
 

Cad Wedge NC

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well that depends on who you ask. The world agreed to use the Gregorian calendar for simplification and since it is the closest to a actual revolution of the earth around the sun however there are numerous other active calendars......the Gregorian for instance is based on the Julian calendar which is currently on year 2773. The Hebrew calendar is on year 5780, China is on 4718 ( year of the rat ), the Muslim calendar is on year 1441....these calendars are all still in use...

Oh good grief,...... you know what he was referring to.
 

Poimen

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I do but the reason they use that calendar isn't Jesus.....which is what he was referring too.
Are you saying that Jesus is not the basis for the year 2020? It may not be important one way or the other, but that just isn't the case. Even though the world has jettisoned B.C./A.D. for B.C.E/C.E. (Before Common Era/Common Era), the dividing point is still Jesus. Sure, there are other calendars, but the VAST majority of the world recognizes that we are in the year 2020.
 

Downeastnc

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Are you saying that Jesus is not the basis for the year 2020? It may not be important one way or the other, but that just isn't the case. Even though the world has jettisoned B.C./A.D. for B.C.E/C.E. (Before Common Era/Common Era), the dividing point is still Jesus. Sure, there are other calendars, but the VAST majority of the world recognizes that we are in the year 2020.
That's not what I was saying, I am saying that the world did not decide to all get on the Gregorian calendar because it uses Jesus's birth as the starting point for the common era....that's all I was saying, the world deciding to use that calendar has nothing to do with Jesus birth.

Lots of other parts of the world also recognizes other years as well, especially places like the China and Israel for instance, they still rely and use their calendars alongside the Gregorian one...

Maybe I read to much into NCSNOW post, the point I thought he was making is the year 2020 is because of Jesus and that is correct but that is not why that calendar is the one we use.
 
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That is why I know this is all BS, there is no god if there is a god it certainly isn't the Abrahamic one....A person could take a whole class to address this one sentence but without a creator God there would be some serious issues with how matter and life even came to be. Numerous scientific principles and laws would have to be violated, such as matter coming from no matter, life coming from no life (biogenesis), statistical imposibilities (such as the odds of all the correct proteins lining up on a DNA strand in the right order at the right time just to form the simplest bacteria (the odds would be considered statistically impossible by scientific standards, though "science" states it happened anyway by chance alone), the multiple issues with natural evolution, etc. The Abrahamic God is a creator and personal God, which would be necessary. The universe would have to be created, as it could not create itself, and God must be outside of that universe. God is suppose to be perfect yet he creates imperfect beings, then punishes them for being imperfect.... this is not the correct way to understand "punishment." We were created because God is creative in nature and wanted to have relationship with part of his creation (similar to how we feel about our children on Earth). Sin (and acts of sin) create a seperation between us and God. Why? Because sin is anything that is against the nature of God. This separation can ultimately lead to complete and eternal separation, which is what we call Hell. The first people chose to go against the nature of God and so all people are born into a sinful (seperated) world with a tendancy (nature) towards sin. Hell is a consequence of that seperation. Despite that, we at least see the possibility of God, but many do not to want a relationship with (and thus remain seperated from) Him. We either seek that relationship or we don't, but God loves us too much to force us into His presence eternally against our will. unless you worship him and constantly asking him for forgiveness for making us imperfect. The purpose of worship and prayer are to grow our relationship with God, help us learn more about him and ourselves, and say thank you. Forgiveness is about cleansing hearts and minds, being freed from the bondage of hurt and sin, and experiencing emotions like love and grace. God does this for us and we are suppososed to do it for each other. Oh and God wont prove he exist you just gotta have faith and believe if you fail to do those things then well off to hell with ya....I understand the frustration here but the faith part is essential. If God was sitting on a mountain somewhere many would just say, "yeah there's God over there so I believe it but that's enough" I think God wanted us to choose to love him, because forced love is not really love at all. Faith brings in things like intention, selfless love, desire for knowlege and connection. If some people only pursued those because they see him on a mountain would it be genuine? However, God provides plenty of evidence, many just don't want to see it. do you really think a eternity in hell ( eternity for crying out loud ) is a "just" penalty for someone like me.....should I burn in hell forever, do my sins really equal that kind of punishment. Hell does any crime really deserve that kind of punishment.....well I can think of a few but really its ridiculous. I touched on some of this above. Hell is total seperation from God. No love, no growth, no comfort, no relationship, no anything that is part of the nature of God. Take all those out of our expereince and one gets the picture of a pretty dismal place. But we're all born with this seperation from God. Unless we choose something different (finding relationship with God) there's no other place to go to. It's not so much of a "punishment" as it is a natural consequence. Being "good" has nothing to do with where we go. The whole reason for Jesus is that you cannot earn your way out of Hell. Only God's love, grace, and a relationship with Him can do that.
Just adding my two cents in blue above. You have some very valid questions and I think you are wrestling with some of the fundamental issues surrounding life, death, and the possibility of God. There are some wonderful resources if you really want to find answers to some of your biggest questions. Check out a guy named Ravi Zacharias on Youtube, he is a very compassionate and wise speaker. Norman Geisler and Frank Turek are two others.
 
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So if there was no penalty of hell would you go around murdering and raping people, steal from your neighbors etc? To be blunt, many, MANY people throughout history have done exactly this, and largely because they had no moral comapss or didn't think morality existed at all. If there is no God, how do we come up with a moral standard to say muder and rape are wrong to begin with? Do we use what you or I think is "moral and good?" Do we use what 3rd century Egyptians thought? Do we use what Hitler thought? Mother Teresa? There have been plenty of people and cultures that thought rape and murder was perfectly moral, even desirable. Animals do it all the time and we don't judge them by a moral standard. Science says we are just animals. If morals are just what we as a current collective culture think (ie. laws against muder and rape) then those things aren't wrong or immoral, or even bad, they are just illegal. To say it another way, if there is not absolute morailty then we really have no basis for jugding something as "immoral' or "bad" and have no "right" to punish people who are acting based on what they think is right for them. Is your belief in God the only thing that prevents you from doing all those things? Well, even people who don't believe were created in His image and have Gods' morality "written on their hearts" (They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Romans 12:15-16) but becasue of our separation from God that has been corrupted by us and many choose to ignore it. Even so, if there were no God, our deeds would have no morality and wouldn't untimately matter anyway.

Also I am not messed up nor am I desperately in need of redemption....at all. I don't need to believe in a god to be a good person....I don't need the promise of everlasting life or the threat of eternity in hell to do the right thing. Remember that "being a good person" or "doing the right thing" has no meaning unless there is a standard to measure it against. The standard has to be outside of you, me, or culture for it to have any real meaning. A good person today might be considered a bad person tomorrow or in another culture. I agree that most people have a general sense of "good and bad" or "shoulds and shouldn'ts" (CS Lewis in Mere Christianity) but they fall well short of God's standard.
Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts on this one as well.
 

Cad Wedge NC

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Just adding my two cents in blue above. You have some very valid questions and I think you are wrestling with some of the fundamental issues surrounding life, death, and the possibility of God. There are some wonderful resources if you really want to find answers to some of your biggest questions. Check out a guy named Ravi Zacharias on Youtube, he is a very compassionate and wise speaker. Norman Geisler and Frank Turek are two others.
I really like that guy. I listen to him weekly on BBN.... Super intelligent and quite the speaker.
 

VegasEagle

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LOL....I don't understand it so it must be magic sky daddy who did it.....
"plata o plomo", translates from Spanish to "silver or lead", meaning "money or bullets"..... so simple, the biggest decision one can make in life. Heaven or hell. You say for a fact (99.9) there is no God. But, you and I can not prove it. Yet, you just want it to be true ( most likely you don't like to follow rules or the idea that you have to obedient). I understand, but, how silly of a risk and reward choice is it? Very poor reasoning in any angle you look at it. You over think things and can not see the forest for the trees. Plata o plomo for eternity, choose wisely.
 

Downeastnc

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"plata o plomo", translates from Spanish to "silver or lead", meaning "money or bullets"..... so simple, the biggest decision one can make in life. Heaven or hell. You say for a fact (99.9) there is no God. But, you and I can not prove it. Yet, you just want it to be true ( most likely you don't like to follow rules or the idea that you have to obedient). I understand, but, how silly of a risk and reward choice is it? Very poor reasoning in any angle you look at it. You over think things and can not see the forest for the trees. Plata o plomo for eternity, choose wisely.
LOL ok...…I cant prove there is no god no more than you can prove there is....I don't need a god to live my life "right" or do good things. Its like you guys think I should pretend to believe in god in case there is a hell? I mean how do you even do that....I am 100% certain that the Christian god does not exist, or any other god conceived by man.....I leave that .01% chance out there simply because I cant prove it, I as a realist and objective person acknowledge there could be that miniscule chance of some kind of creator higher power whatever.....even if that thing does exist it is not God/Jesus etc.
 

VegasEagle

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LOL ok...…I cant prove there is no god no more than you can prove there is....I don't need a god to live my life "right" or do good things. Its like you guys think I should pretend to believe in god in case there is a hell? I mean how do you even do that....I am 100% certain that the Christian god does not exist, or any other god conceived by man.....I leave that .01% chance out there simply because I cant prove it, I as a realist and objective person acknowledge there could be that miniscule chance of some kind of creator higher power whatever.....even if that thing does exist it is not God/Jesus etc.
Just saying, .1 is all it takes. Forever... Silver or lead.
 

Cad Wedge NC

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LOL ok...…I cant prove there is no god no more than you can prove there is....I don't need a god to live my life "right" or do good things. Its like you guys think I should pretend to believe in god in case there is a hell? I mean how do you even do that....I am 100% certain that the Christian god does not exist, or any other god conceived by man.....I leave that .01% chance out there simply because I cant prove it, I as a realist and objective person acknowledge there could be that miniscule chance of some kind of creator higher power whatever.....even if that thing does exist it is not God/Jesus etc.
Did you ever ask yourself the question "What if I am wrong?" What will happen to me when I die?
 

Downeastnc

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Did you ever ask yourself the question "What if I am wrong?" What will happen to me when I die?
There was a period in my teens when I was questioning everything and feeling guilty and all that, I would legit lie awake at night worrying about just that.....if I am wrong I will burn in hell blah blah..... it took a while for me to shed all the conditioning that I had been pumped full of for 15 yrs.....

I have not worried about going to hell for 30+ years since I know such a place does not exist.
 

Cad Wedge NC

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There was a period in my teens when I was questioning everything and feeling guilty and all that, I would legit lie awake at night worrying about just that.....if I am wrong I will burn in hell blah blah..... it took a while for me to shed all the conditioning that I had been pumped full of for 15 yrs.....

I have not worried about going to hell for 30+ years since I know such a place does not exist.
How do you know? Sounds to me like you are just in denial. When you are on your death-bed, you will feel differently.
 

Cad Wedge NC

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How do you know there is a god? I am far from in denial, I wont feel any different on my death bed....
You say that now, but one day, your feelings will change. I can assure you of that. I am not trying to be mean, I just know that you can't possibly tell me how you will feel when you are staring death in the face.
 
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