pcbjr
Member
Might I humbly suggest, for point of clarity, a comma?
So yeah impeachable offenses occurred, just not by this administration.
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- Thread starter Bama Ravens
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So yeah impeachable offenses occurred, just not by this administration.
Downeastnc
Member
I wouldn't believe to much coming out of Shokin the guy is a Russian stooge and was forced out because he was corruption incarnate and doing exactly what he was trying to stop....
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukr...ldings-joe-bidens-son-hunter-explained-2019-9
- So, it's true that Biden was among those who pushed for Shokin to be fired as Ukraine's top prosecutor, but by the time this happened the probe into Burisma was dormant, according to Bloomberg.
- According to the Times, Ukrainian and American officials have also debated whether Shokin was using the threat of prosecution against Burisma in order to solicit a bribe.
- Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told The Washington Post, "Shokin was not investigating. He didn't want to investigate Burisma. Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation."
Trump admits he asked the Ukrainians to go after the Biden's that is a impeachable offense full stop.......it may even be illegal. He has admitted to it and there is a lot more than just that one call, Rudy has been over there numerous times pushing this and now its coming out that others have as well.
Edit to add it does not look good on Trump that he praises this corrupt guy on the call transcript either.....
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Avalanche
Member
He made the transcript public. He didnt say "go after" Biden. Had he said that Adam Schiff wouldnt have had to lie and use made up words.
YetAnotherRDUGuy
Member
The honorable RainCold. I'm gonna respond to you, since you answered my question.
I disagree that there's nothing there. I think asking Ukraine to investigate his likely opponent in his reelection campaign while implying we would withhold aid is a form of extortion, and warrants at the very least, impeachment proceedings. I'm not saying we should 100% remove him yet, because I'd like to see what else comes out before deciding. But I don't think it looks good.
As for the democrats, I hope your wrong. But there's part of me that thinks even if something comes out that makes the President's removal a slam dunk, they would still find a way to screw it up.
Ya'll know this is all McCain's fault, right? If he hadn't nominated Palin back in the day, then Obama may not have been elected in 08. That would have been an interesting timeline no doubt.
YetAnotherRDUGuy
Member
I just realized your location says Chapel Hill. You live within walking distance of the biggest bastion of pink commy liberals in the state. Why did you do this to yourself? No wonder you came out with guns blazing on our Commander in Chief.
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Bernie Sanders had to have emergency surgery (on Tuesday I believe) to have two stents put into a coronary artery after having complained of chest discomfort. He’s resting comfortably (rest is important at this stage) and hopefully he’ll have a full recovery. It is a rather common procedure.
Brent
Member
I wish him all the best honestly but he'll be 80 soon how old is too old
Biden isnt very far behind either
If he had any shot, and he didn't, this is the nail in the coffin, so to speak. I wish him well and hope he gets better soon.
Avalanche
Member
LOL I know right. My first experience was when the Chick-Fil-A was located on Franklin St in Chapel Hill. I was going to grab myself a sandwich, and when I pulled in there were 50 or so people blocking the line holding animal rights signs. I knew then I'd better get a salad.
It could easily be said to not believe too much coming out of an anonymous deep state whistle blower with 2nd and 3rd hand information. Also Shokin's comments seem to at least corroborate Biden's own actual admission that he threatened to withhold a billion US dollars from Ukraine if he wasn't fired. "Well son of a B...., he was fired" -Joe Biden
Just because the probe into Burisma might have been dormant doesn't absolve Biden of any wrong doing, he still wanted them to back off of any investigation into his son's involvement. The Obama administration always has and apparently always will get a free pass.
As @Avalanche stated Trump did not say "go after Biden", did he mention his name yes but to look into corruption. I'd think we would want our leaders to look into corruption that involved American citizens with foreign identities. I mean we just wasted 2 years of looking into possible collusion but they seems ok to do because it's Trump. Mind you I'm no big Trump fan, I've said this in previous post but I also don't let my personal feelings toward one candidate or another cloud my observations.
What Trump really wants them to look into is the whole corruption scandal surrounding the 2016 election and as it relates to those in the DNC. This whole impeachment process has tons to do with the fact that somebody was getting very warm/close to uncovering the real corruption that occurred (you remember, bought and paid for fake dossier that started this whole collusion mess in the first place) and names coming out. I mean why else did this whistleblower meet with Schiff aides priory to actually filing the complaint?
I'm assuming the C Hill snowflakes don't know where you live? Lol God bless you!
Downeastnc
Member
There is no corruption scandal surrounding the DNC/Ukriane its all smoke and mirror 4chan conspiracy crap, the Ukraine has said that the corruption investigation into Barisma was for a period of time before Biden Jr was even with the company and that Biden Jr has never been under investigation. The entire Crowdstrike/DNC angle has been debunked by the entire US intelligence community, the Mueller investigation etc...Trump is just trying to get the Ukraine to say this stuff happened to discredit the Mueller report and the Russian collusion. The reason the WB went to Congress was he originally gave his concerns and report to the CIA legal consul and he did so outside of the WB procedures, so it was just him saying hey I have this info and I think someone needs to see it.....the CIA consul then went to the WH deputy consul with it ( I mean why go to the WH with a complaint against Trump), meaning they knew of it before anyone else......after a few weeks the WB felt the report was being buried ( cause it was) and contacted Congress to see how best to proceed and was directed to retain legal consul and file a WB complaint which he did.
This is how the Rudy angle is playing out......this is what is actually happening....this is a attempt by Trump and Rudy to shift the election interference falsely to the Ukrainians to down play the Russian collusion on 2016...
- Giuliani has been communicating with Manafort via a lawyer to coordinate the communications and plan regarding Ukraine. That’s...insane.
- Giuliani put together a packet of disinformation that was given to the state dept for the purpose of smearing people, like the Biden’s. The packet has been described as “propaganda and debunked conspiracy theories”.
- The packet was photoshopped to appear to be from the White House. Giuliani admitted he made it. So Trumps personal lawyer is forging documents that contain 4chan level nonsense to appear to be official White House docs and it was aimed at smearing The Biden’s and others.
- Pompeo directed his staff not to answer any questions about this to congress. Pompeo’s lawyer very intelligently did not follow that direction and confirmed details about the packet.
- So when Schiff said “Trump asked the Ukrainian President to make up dirt about Biden” he was technically wrong. Trump and co made up the dirt and gave it to him, they just asked him to say it was real.
Obviously you believe there was collusion between Trump and the Russians to effect the 2016 Election and I'm guessing you think the dossier is legit? You know the bought and paid for dossier, with dots that lead back to the Clinton's, is the one thing that has been debunked and the use of said fake dossier to get FISA warrants is corrupt if not outright illegal. It's going to be very difficult to debate or even think about changing one's mind about anything Trump related if they still believe he colluded with Russia to "steal" the election.
I despised Trump during the primaries and certainly didn't vote for him then but I did vote for him in the General Election and for one reason and one reason only. A vote for anyone else was a vote for Hillary and there was no way I was going to allow that to happen. If Hillary wins, we don't have Kavanaugh and I guarantee you RBG would've already retired so she could've appointed a far left Justice on the SCOTUS. I say that because the Russians had nothing to do with my decision, my vote, etc and I dare there were millions like me that only voted to keep her out.
As for your last section and those 5 things you state are "what is actually happening", I'm not sure your sources or if they are in fact happening or not, heck I don't know you may be on the inside with some good inside information Lol..... I'll admit I don't have all the facts or answers to those issues. What I do know as of now is the phone call that is the center of the impeachment process does not show anything impeachable imo. Asking a foreign leader to look into corruption between American citizens and foreign identities seems like a legit thing for the POTUS to do. Sure beats an administration basically green lighting the IRS to investigate conservatives, or helping an Attorney General cover up a gun smuggling operation into Mexico or lying about why an attack occurred at Benghazi that could've been prevented and yet nobody seems to care American soldiers died or Obama telling Medvedev "I'll have more flexibility to negotiate with Putin after the election" (collusion?), destroying thousands of emails/evidence, lying about it at every opportunity, etc etc
It's interesting to see Reagan conservatives side with and defend the liberal left so fervently just because they despise a man in office so much, I guess Trump has helped unification in some areas.
Downeastnc
Member
Well I know there was Russian collusion the Mueller report says as much, what the Mueller report says is that they can not prove conspiracy to do so that is why there was no charges for anything. Heck Trump Jr took a meeting with Russian nationals for the express purpose of being given information to use against Hillary....that is collusion.....no if and or buts. Also the Steele Dossier was not the kick off for the investigation but rather from George Papadopoulos running his drunk mouth off....
You will get no argument from me that the former administration was full of questionable stuff.......the GOP has had control of the DOJ for 3 years now and crickets.......sadly Trump has been exactly what I feared he would be and his actions are exactly why I and so many other Reagan Republicans were against him. He is going to down and a man like Trump will try to take it all down with him.....
Going back to Ukraine and Shokin, the move to remove him was international and Biden was not acting on his own here is a letter sent in 2016 with bipartisan support for reform of the prosecutor office ( IE removing Shokin ) this was supported by D&R's alike in the US and the EU.....
https://www.portman.senate.gov/news...enate-ukraine-caucus-reaffirm-commitment-help
This new story on Fox also is very interesting if they conclude that Trump was withholding aid money from Ukraine to extort them into lying about Biden then he is gone. The Giuliani stuff I posted early shows that he was feeding the State Dept and the Ukraine the story Trump wanted them to tell about the Biden's even if it was untrue.....if the Ukraine was under the impression they had to play ball to get the aid then Trump is gonna be dumped.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...al-quid-pro-quo-dispute/ar-AAIed8t?li=BBnb7Kz
I'm also a Reagan Republican who is not at all a Trump fan and who has repeatedly criticized him, but
1. He was not found by the Mueller Report to have colluded with Russia. I didn't think that was still debatable. The coverup yes but not collusion.
2. I'm not sure I'm following you about the 2nd bolded. Are you saying the Bidens didn't do what has been reported? I thought Joe, himself, essentially admitted to this. Keep in mind that I've been a Biden fan and in the recent past have stated why I think he would be beneficial for our country in 2020. So, I hope Joe really didn't do wrong. I'm so confused about this whole mess and don't know who to believe anymore.
Btw I'm the same age as you and a Reagan conservative, I can't say this enough, my comments aren't out of a loyalty to Trump at all cost.... like a cult following. I recognize those do exist. If there are facts that Trump committed an impeachable offense then roll on.
True the Portman letter does show some bi-partisan support to create a transparent and democratic government in Ukraine with a specific mention later in the letter of the Prosecutor Generals office. So we are ok with a government official, i.e. Vice President, telling the Ukraine President to fire the prosecutor or your not getting the billion dollars? I mean this is how the Obama administration worked, billion here to remove this person, billions to Iran to close a deal. It's funny the letter states Ukraine had decades of cronyism.... so use cronyism to remove cronyism. Ok
Now the news story from Fox: A few points, 1)It's a new story and sorry what reporters report are not always full on fact and usually don't tell the whole story 2) Here's what Rep. Jordan had to say in that story talking about Volker's interview "But not one thing he said comports with any of the Democrats' impeachment narrative, Not one thing.” 3) Then these text messages that they reference actually show that while there is debate about "quid pro quo" there really isn't anything there to show that at all. Here is part of the text they give "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign," Taylor said in a text exchange. Sondland responded by saying that was not what was happening. "Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo's of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign."
I said earlier I think the POTUS has a right if not a duty to look into corruption involving American citizens and foreign identities, even more so when those citizens are US Government officials. Trump has never said he wanted "dirt on the Biden's", he has only stated he is looking into allegations of corruption. And quite frankly if their was/still is corruption, and there very well could be, then do we really want to send aid until we get to the bottom of those issues to ensure our tax dollars are not used in some way shape or fashion against us in the next election or worse?
You can read a lot into news reports and most people form an opinion heavily swayed by their personal feeling towards an individual. It's why the left can be so quick to jump to conclusions and conclusions that are often more wrong then right.
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Downeastnc
Member
The fact that the #2 in the US embassy (Taylor) thinks that the money is being withheld tells me the Ukrainians think the money is being held up because they wont go after Biden, remember Giuliani had several meetings with Zelensky's aides who knows what he said or threatened....basically the boots on the ground for the USA in the Ukrainian Embassy thought the aid was held up pending Ukraine corporation with the Biden angle. That's significant.......
Sure Biden told the Ukraine to ditch Shokin or else they wouldn't get the money....but he did so representing the USA, his son was not even under investigation and NEVER has been....the ouster of Shokin had been urged and pushed by the USA/EU/IMF etc.....Shokin is a Russian stooge who was the root enabler of a lot of the corruption rampant in Ukraine....Biden's son was never under investigation by Shokin and the investigation into the company Biden Jr was with was from a period 2 yrs before Biden Jr joined them there simply is nothing there. The entire Crowdstrike/ DNC angle Giuliani and Trump are pushing is a conspiracy theory shot down numerous times....
Go read the Mueller report he absolutely states that Trump's campaign knew the Russians were interfering and welcomed it....its all there in black and white.....they just could not prove there was a conspiracy among them all to allow it.....but that does not mean they didn't do it either. How is Trump Jr meeting with Russian national government officials to get information to use against Hillary not collusion? It is, again what they cant prove is conspiracy which is the crime....
Sure Biden told the Ukraine to ditch Shokin or else they wouldn't get the money....but he did so representing the USA, his son was not even under investigation and NEVER has been....the ouster of Shokin had been urged and pushed by the USA/EU/IMF etc.....Shokin is a Russian stooge who was the root enabler of a lot of the corruption rampant in Ukraine....Biden's son was never under investigation by Shokin and the investigation into the company Biden Jr was with was from a period 2 yrs before Biden Jr joined them there simply is nothing there. The entire Crowdstrike/ DNC angle Giuliani and Trump are pushing is a conspiracy theory shot down numerous times....
Go read the Mueller report he absolutely states that Trump's campaign knew the Russians were interfering and welcomed it....its all there in black and white.....they just could not prove there was a conspiracy among them all to allow it.....but that does not mean they didn't do it either. How is Trump Jr meeting with Russian national government officials to get information to use against Hillary not collusion? It is, again what they cant prove is conspiracy which is the crime....
Trump haters will always claim the things are against him and the supporters will always claim things are for him and the rest of us just shrug our shoulders and yawn as we watch the national debt get higher and our country rot.
Wait I don't like being the target of these covert messages.... I'm no true Trump supporter
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Trump definitely is not fiscally conservative, in fact we've not had fiscally responsible leadership in the White House or Congress in decades.
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