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Downeastnc said:
His base shrinks everyday, I think the Trumpers do not fully appreciate the folks that are just plain tired of Trump and his BS, a lot of them only talk to there like minded friends, only see the pro Trump stuff on FB, only see Trump stickers and signs in their neighborhoods etc and they get this idea that Trump is liked and supported way more than he is in their little bubble...



I dont think Trump would last 5 mins in a debate, there is so much the Dems can hammer him on.....you think he looks bad now rambling on about who knows what.....just wait till the debates....he answers will be rambling hard to understand diatribes where he talks about his big brain, great wisdom, and refers to himself in 3rd person.....
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Trumps diatribes are anoying which is why I can't listen to his press conferences, but that said in a debate he would run a circle around Biden. As low energy as Biden is and how he can't remember what he had for breakfast, he wouldn't be able to keep up with Trump. Could he probably ding Trump more than Trump can ding him? Probably. But, his issue is people would see a slow old fart is smells like Clinton.

Warren could definitely keep up with Trump, but the more she would open her mouth, the better it would help Trump when she starts Trumpeting Socialism with no way to pay for it. Sanders would be about the same, except would look more funny to more Americans.

I don't know about the rest of the field, but the only hope they have of sniffing the nomination is if the top runners all died.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all against a Pence/Haley ticket, in fact it would be nice to be able to vote for President next year. That said, the GOP isn't stupid enough to try that. Their lots are cast with Trump. Doing something like that Fox news lawyer said to TWX is a sure fire way to fracture the party and get beat and probably loose their seat.
 
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Going in to 2020 its a matter of am I better off now than 4 years ago for ",most people". The answer to that question is yes unless you just arent trying. The TDS people would be fine if they stopped hyper focusing on social media but they wont. The Dems have a weak field period.....end of story. Its 2012 all over again and Trump will cruise
 
I'm no "Trumper" and certainly not part of his base but I voted for him.. yep like it or not, believe in it or not there are a lot of us who took the "lesser of two evils". We can sit back and not vote and cast stones at those who supported him but for me, the thought of a democrat placing one, maybe 2, heck maybe 3 liberal justices on the SCOTUS was too much of a risk to take. Christians are verbally attacked daily, put a very liberal court up there and soon our freedom of religion is in jeopardy, the 2nd is in jeopardy and we're one step away from legal infanticide. If Trump is on the ticket in 2020 (and I really have no reason to believe he won't be) I'll once again cast a vote for him for the reasons I've described over and over. Yep there's a lot of us out here that aren't his base, borderline supporters, don't like his rhetoric, believe if he would just shut up and govern he'd be better off but as it is when it comes down to it and we way the options will vote for him. That's the reality that those who want him gone more than anything don't take into account.

Oh and then there are those that will also consider if they are better off now then 4 years ago and those votes will go his way as well.

Honestly if the Dems were so sure they'd win in 2020 they wouldn't be wasting all their time with investigations, inquiries and impeachment
 
metwannabe said:
I'm no "Trumper" and certainly not part of his base but I voted for him.. yep like it or not, believe in it or not there are a lot of us who took the "lesser of two evils". We can sit back and not vote and cast stones at those who supported him but for me, the thought of a democrat placing one, maybe 2, heck maybe 3 liberal justices on the SCOTUS was too much of a risk to take. Christians are verbally attacked daily, put a very liberal court up there and soon our freedom of religion is in jeopardy, the 2nd is in jeopardy and we're one step away from legal infanticide. If Trump is on the ticket in 2020 (and I really have no reason to believe he won't be) I'll once again cast a vote for him for the reasons I've described over and over. Yep there's a lot of us out here that aren't his base, borderline supporters, don't like his rhetoric, believe if he would just shut up and govern he'd be better off but as it is when it comes down to it and we way the options will vote for him. That's the reality that those who want him gone more than anything don't take into account.

Oh and then there are those that will also consider if they are better off now then 4 years ago and those votes will go his way as well.

Honestly if the Dems were so sure they'd win in 2020 they wouldn't be wasting all their time with investigations, inquiries and impeachment
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Good points. I dont follow his twitter, his approach is not of a politician but a businessman from NY. I can live with that. Im a vet so I am used to course language :)
 
Sandbar said:
Good points. I dont follow his twitter, his approach is not of a politician but a businessman from NY. I can live with that. Im a vet so I am used to course language :)
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Oh yeah I get that and if we're honest a lot of what he says has probably been said by many that preceded him, just not usually so public. I've worked in law enforcement for nearly 25 yrs so coarse language doesn't bother me that much either but I also grew up in a time where you tried to "watch your language around kids and ladies" maybe that's part of it. And some of it isn't event he language but his rambling, he does love to hear himself speak Lol. Either way at the end of the day most of his policies have been conservative and that's what I generally go by

Btw, thank you for your service
 
metwannabe said:
I'm no "Trumper" and certainly not part of his base but I voted for him.. yep like it or not, believe in it or not there are a lot of us who took the "lesser of two evils". We can sit back and not vote and cast stones at those who supported him but for me, the thought of a democrat placing one, maybe 2, heck maybe 3 liberal justices on the SCOTUS was too much of a risk to take. Christians are verbally attacked daily, put a very liberal court up there and soon our freedom of religion is in jeopardy, the 2nd is in jeopardy and we're one step away from legal infanticide. If Trump is on the ticket in 2020 (and I really have no reason to believe he won't be) I'll once again cast a vote for him for the reasons I've described over and over. Yep there's a lot of us out here that aren't his base, borderline supporters, don't like his rhetoric, believe if he would just shut up and govern he'd be better off but as it is when it comes down to it and we way the options will vote for him. That's the reality that those who want him gone more than anything don't take into account.

Oh and then there are those that will also consider if they are better off now then 4 years ago and those votes will go his way as well.

Honestly if the Dems were so sure they'd win in 2020 they wouldn't be wasting all their time with investigations, inquiries and impeachment
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The problem is he is breaking the law, and doing unethical stuff.......stuff that most of the conservatives on this site would be demanding Hillary and Obama go down for.....this is the part that pisses me off, there needs to be accountability all around, but neither side is willing to police its own side they only want to enforce stuff when it suits their parties needs and goals.....this is why we have the mess we do.

Basically everyone giving Trump a pass loses the right to whine when the Dems take over and does the same stuff.....if it comes out that Trump was using military aid ( our tax dollars ) to extort the Ukrainians into investigating the Bidens and that through Rudy they had a network of Ukrainian oligarchs etc funding Rudy and sending money to Trumps campaign would that have any effect on your vote? If in the face of these wrong doings by Trump you turned a blind eye do you understand why it makes your fury hollow and you a hypocrite when you demand justice for wrongs done by Obama/Hillary?

If there is proof of these acts would you not support removing Trump and letting Pence pick a VP and run in 2020.....I guess I do not understand why people support or want to keep a president that sucks like Trump does, there are tons of people more than capable of being the president way better than the guy in there now......imagine what the GOP could have got done if they had elected a person who actually knew WTH they were doing in 2016.
 
Downeastnc said:
The problem is he is breaking the law, and doing unethical stuff.......stuff that most of the conservatives on this site would be demanding Hillary and Obama go down for.....this is the part that pisses me off, there needs to be accountability all around, but neither side is willing to police its own side they only want to enforce stuff when it suits their parties needs and goals.....this is why we have the mess we do.

Basically everyone giving Trump a pass loses the right to whine when the Dems take over and does the same stuff.....if it comes out that Trump was using military aid ( our tax dollars ) to extort the Ukrainians into investigating the Bidens and that through Rudy they had a network of Ukrainian oligarchs etc funding Rudy and sending money to Trumps campaign would that have any effect on your vote? If in the face of these wrong doings by Trump you turned a blind eye do you understand why it makes your fury hollow and you a hypocrite when you demand justice for wrongs done by Obama/Hillary?

If there is proof of these acts would you not support removing Trump and letting Pence pick a VP and run in 2020.....I guess I do not understand why people support or want to keep a president that sucks like Trump does, there are tons of people more than capable of being the president way better than the guy in there now......imagine what the GOP could have got done if they had elected a person who actually knew WTH they were doing in 2016.
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So you have absolute proof of illegal activities by Trump, that apparently no one else seems to have? And if we're talking unethical, there isn't a politician in DC that hasn't been unethical at some point and time, so I'm with you let's throw all the bums out and start completely over.

Every president has leaned on foreign leaders at one point and time in some way or another (we've just never been privy to conversations/phone calls, etc) but if they prove Trump extorted anyone then sure impeach, remove and roll on. I like Pence, I have no issue with him as President at all so sure.... but I don't see any evidence of it yet (YET) and if we're honest nobody on the outside sees evidence yet because all of it hasn't come out. I agree with RC on this let's get this hearing in the Senate rolling, so witnesses can be subpoenaed and evidence brought to light so we all can see what's going on. I look at all the facts in it's totality I do not allow my hatred for an individual cloud my judgement (speaking of impeachable and illegal activities).

Btw, the left talking point is to say he was digging up dirt on an opponent or investigating an opponent.... sure it happens to be a potential opponent (last I checked no Dem nominee had been determined yet) but he was actually investigating corruption of American leaders on foreign soil. Not sure why we all wouldn't want that.
 
metwannabe said:
So you have absolute proof of illegal activities by Trump, that apparently no one else seems to have? And if we're talking unethical, there isn't a politician in DC that hasn't been unethical at some point and time, so I'm with you let's throw all the bums out and start completely over.

Every president has leaned on foreign leaders at one point and time in some way or another (we've just never been privy to conversations/phone calls, etc) but if they prove Trump extorted anyone then sure impeach, remove and roll on. I like Pence, I have no issue with him as President at all so sure.... but I don't see any evidence of it yet (YET) and if we're honest nobody on the outside sees evidence yet because all of it hasn't come out. I agree with RC on this let's get this hearing in the Senate rolling, so witnesses can be subpoenaed and evidence brought to light so we all can see what's going on. I look at all the facts in it's totality I do not allow my hatred for an individual cloud my judgement (speaking of impeachable and illegal activities).
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There is quite a bit of evidence for it IMO, there may never be a audio recording of Trump saying it outright but there is enough evidence at this time that numerous people Sondland/Volker/Giuliani etc were all pushing the agenda that was hidden and in fact in conflict with the stated goals of the US State Dept.....all to try and get the Ukrainians to go after Biden and Crowdstrike for the sole purpose of benefiting Trump.....several people testifying this week will fill in the gaps even better, and now it is being learned that Bolton is probably going to come before the inquiry as well.....once the depositions are done (which are always done behind closed doors ) the House will move to the public phase on the House floor where they will sell their case then hold a vote on articles of impeachment.....this inquiry is only a month old the one for Clinton lasted 10 weeks.....

This is from Taylors statement...

"During that phone call, Ambassador Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelenskiy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U. S. election," Taylor said in the statement. Biden's son, Hunter, served as a board member of Burisma Holdings.

Crucially, according to Taylor, Sondland said "everything" Ukraine wanted was contingent upon Ukraine opening an investigation, including the military assistance approved by Congress that Trump was holding back
.
"He said that President Trump wanted President Zelenskiy 'in a public box,'" Taylor said.
 
Downeastnc said:
The problem is he is breaking the law, and doing unethical stuff.......stuff that most of the conservatives on this site would be demanding Hillary and Obama go down for.....this is the part that pisses me off, there needs to be accountability all around, but neither side is willing to police its own side they only want to enforce stuff when it suits their parties needs and goals.....this is why we have the mess we do.

Basically everyone giving Trump a pass loses the right to whine when the Dems take over and does the same stuff.....if it comes out that Trump was using military aid ( our tax dollars ) to extort the Ukrainians into investigating the Bidens and that through Rudy they had a network of Ukrainian oligarchs etc funding Rudy and sending money to Trumps campaign would that have any effect on your vote? If in the face of these wrong doings by Trump you turned a blind eye do you understand why it makes your fury hollow and you a hypocrite when you demand justice for wrongs done by Obama/Hillary?

If there is proof of these acts would you not support removing Trump and letting Pence pick a VP and run in 2020.....I guess I do not understand why people support or want to keep a president that sucks like Trump does, there are tons of people more than capable of being the president way better than the guy in there now......imagine what the GOP could have got done if they had elected a person who actually knew WTH they were doing in 2016.
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I've never been active on a political thread on other boards, so other than here I've never followed your comments. With that said, I'm curious.... were you this irate with Obama and his administration when the AG was complicit with the smuggling of guns into Mexico that killed hundreds including one of our own Officers or when Obama/Clinton didn't send the help to Benghazi and watched our men die and lie (not opinion but fact) about a stupid film as the blame or when the IRS targeted conservatives or when Clinton thumbed her noise at authorities and deleted thousands or emails? How about those on the left who have shown images of the pres decapitated, thought of blowing up the white house, encouraging people to follow them to the gasoline stations & restaurants or dox their address so they could harass their families or gun down congressman on the softball field or call Justice Thomas an uncle Tom.... you've been as irate over those circumstances too correct? Again you may have and I've just never seen it
 
Downeastnc said:
The problem is he is breaking the law, and doing unethical stuff.......stuff that most of the conservatives on this site would be demanding Hillary and Obama go down for.....this is the part that pisses me off, there needs to be accountability all around, but neither side is willing to police its own side they only want to enforce stuff when it suits their parties needs and goals.....this is why we have the mess we do.

Basically everyone giving Trump a pass loses the right to whine when the Dems take over and does the same stuff.....if it comes out that Trump was using military aid ( our tax dollars ) to extort the Ukrainians into investigating the Bidens and that through Rudy they had a network of Ukrainian oligarchs etc funding Rudy and sending money to Trumps campaign would that have any effect on your vote? If in the face of these wrong doings by Trump you turned a blind eye do you understand why it makes your fury hollow and you a hypocrite when you demand justice for wrongs done by Obama/Hillary?

If there is proof of these acts would you not support removing Trump and letting Pence pick a VP and run in 2020.....I guess I do not understand why people support or want to keep a president that sucks like Trump does, there are tons of people more than capable of being the president way better than the guy in there now......imagine what the GOP could have got done if they had elected a person who actually knew WTH they were doing in 2016.
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The problem is, you and others have already convicted him because you hate his guts and you want him to be guilty of anything possible to get him out of office. That is petty in my personal opinion
 
Downeastnc said:
There is quite a bit of evidence for it IMO, there may never be a audio recording of Trump saying it outright but there is enough evidence at this time that numerous people Sondland/Volker/Giuliani etc were all pushing the agenda that was hidden and in fact in conflict with the stated goals of the US State Dept.....all to try and get the Ukrainians to go after Biden and Crowdstrike for the sole purpose of benefiting Trump.....several people testifying this week will fill in the gaps even better, and now it is being learned that Bolton is probably going to come before the inquiry as well.....once the depositions are done (which are always done behind closed doors ) the House will move to the public phase on the House floor where they will sell their case then hold a vote on articles of impeachment.....this inquiry is only a month old the one for Clinton lasted 10 weeks.....

This is from Taylors statement...

"During that phone call, Ambassador Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelenskiy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U. S. election," Taylor said in the statement. Biden's son, Hunter, served as a board member of Burisma Holdings.

Crucially, according to Taylor, Sondland said "everything" Ukraine wanted was contingent upon Ukraine opening an investigation, including the military assistance approved by Congress that Trump was holding back
.
"He said that President Trump wanted President Zelenskiy 'in a public box,'" Taylor said.
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And what exactly is the problem with us wanting to get to the bottom of this?? "that he wants President Zelenskiy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U. S. election"

You're good with 2 years of investigating Russian collusion as long as it involves Trump but don't want anyone looking into possible collusion if it involves anyone else?
 
metwannabe said:
I've never been active on a political thread on other boards, so other than here I've never followed your comments. With that said, I'm curious.... were you this irate with Obama and his administration when the AG was complicit with the smuggling of guns into Mexico that killed hundreds including one of our own Officers or when Obama/Clinton didn't send the help to Benghazi and watched our men die and lie (not opinion but fact) about a stupid film as the blame or when the IRS targeted conservatives or when Clinton thumbed her noise at authorities and deleted thousands or emails? How about those on the left who have shown images of the pres decapitated, thought of blowing up the white house, encouraging people to follow them to the gasoline stations & restaurants or dox their address so they could harass their families or gun down congressman on the softball field or call Justice Thomas an uncle Tom.... you've been as irate over those circumstances too correct? Again you may have and I've just never seen it
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I will have to refer this to Cold Rain since he post at the other political board and can attest they consider me a far right wing nut......especially IRT guns.....I was vocal against many Obama and Hillary antics and policies........I have zero problem with Hillary or Obama being held responsible for any and all crimes they can be proven to have committed.....the difference is I feel the exact same way about Trump when he screws up. Just because Hillary/Obama have not been held accountable does not mean I look the other way when its Trump......I am not a liberal or a democrat I just HATE that people are so jaded and twisted by their partisanship and I feel like I have taken a crazy pill watching people on my side defend Trump of things that would have had them DEMANDING the others sides leaders head on a platter.
 
Downeastnc said:
I will have to refer this to Cold Rain since he post at the other political board and can attest they consider me a far right wing nut......especially IRT guns.....I was vocal against many Obama and Hillary antics and policies........I have zero problem with Hillary or Obama being held responsible for any and all crimes they can be proven to have committed.....the difference is I feel the exact same way about Trump when he screws up. Just because Hillary/Obama have not been held accountable does not mean I look the other way when its Trump......I am not a liberal or a democrat I just HATE that people are so jaded and twisted by their partisanship and I feel like I have taken a crazy pill watching people on my side defend Trump of things that would have had them DEMANDING the others sides leaders head on a platter.
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I can definitely corroborate that you and Shaggy both are seen as very far right-wingers over at AmPol. I think a lot of what you are seeing with hard core Trump voters is that it isn't your usual stance of Right vs. Left or Conservative vs. Liberal. Instead, it's Trump vs. The System, where virtually ALL of The System has it in for Trump from Day 1. I think there is some truth to this. But I am also not so unreasonable that I ignore the fact that he has helped contribute to it.

For this case specifically, I see all of the information and testimony that has leaked out or been made available. While it doesn't look great for Trump, it has not been tested yet from a legal defense standpoint. Once that process is underway, we'll be able to view all of it in its entire context. For me, I think that's the fair approach. For hard core Trump supporters, he hasn't done anything wrong ever. For anti-Trumpers, he's guilty of many, many crimes, and should probably be in prison.

Personally, I think there is some truth to the fact that he's really upset The System, leading to a lot of leaks and attacks that simply didn't happen with previous administrations (not to say there weren't attacks, but if Obama would have had such a phone call with Ukraine, I doubt it would have ever seen the light of day). However, that doesn't absolve him from the way he handles certain situations, the way he talks about things and treats people, and the unforced errors that he and his administration make. He brings the microscope upon himself more than he should.
 
Downeastnc said:
I will have to refer this to Cold Rain since he post at the other political board and can attest they consider me a far right wing nut......especially IRT guns.....I was vocal against many Obama and Hillary antics and policies........I have zero problem with Hillary or Obama being held responsible for any and all crimes they can be proven to have committed.....the difference is I feel the exact same way about Trump when he screws up. Just because Hillary/Obama have not been held accountable does not mean I look the other way when its Trump......I am not a liberal or a democrat I just HATE that people are so jaded and twisted by their partisanship and I feel like I have taken a crazy pill watching people on my side defend Trump of things that would have had them DEMANDING the others sides leaders head on a platter.
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I would have no problems with anybody condemning Trump for impeachable offenses..... if they actually existed. You would think the Trump haters would have learned from the Mueller report
 
metwannabe said:
And what exactly is the problem with us wanting to get to the bottom of this?? "that he wants President Zelenskiy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U. S. election"

You're good with 2 years of investigating Russian collusion as long as it involves Trump but don't want anyone looking into possible collusion if it involves anyone else?
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Several things.....first the US intelligence community has repeatedly told Trump and his administration that the hacking was done by Russians, there was no Ukrainian interference in 2016.....Trump can not ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival as he stands to gain personally, which is why Trump is doing illegal and unethical actions when he ask.

The Ukrainians have said as far back as the spring of this year that the Bidens are not under investigation and more importantly they never were.....there is no conspiracy, even when Burisma was under investigation it was for a period of time several years before Biden JR took the job on the board. There was nothing illegal about Biden Jr having that job or making the income he was making.....

This is from back in May before this became a well known issue...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...utor-says-no-evidence-of-wrongdoing-by-bidens

This tweet of a statement from the head of the FEC pretty much explains why Trump cant ask a foreign government to investigate Biden.....she tweeted out the first time in June and just retweeted it right after Trump asked China to look into Biden.

D8-jw8WW4AErKk7.png
 
Rain Cold said:
I can definitely corroborate that you and Shaggy both are seen as very far right-wingers over at AmPol. I think a lot of what you are seeing with hard core Trump voters is that it isn't your usual stance of Right vs. Left or Conservative vs. Liberal. Instead, it's Trump vs. The System, where virtually ALL of The System has it in for Trump from Day 1. I think there is some truth to this. But I am also not so unreasonable that I ignore the fact that he has helped contribute to it.

For this case specifically, I see all of the information and testimony that has leaked out or been made available. While it doesn't look great for Trump, it has not been tested yet from a legal defense standpoint. Once that process is underway, we'll be able to view all of it in its entire context. For me, I think that's the fair approach. For hard core Trump supporters, he hasn't done anything wrong ever. For anti-Trumpers, he's guilty of many, many crimes, and should probably be in prison.

Personally, I think there is some truth to the fact that he's really upset The System, leading to a lot of leaks and attacks that simply didn't happen with previous administrations (not to say there weren't attacks, but if Obama would have had such a phone call with Ukraine, I doubt it would have ever seen the light of day). However, that doesn't absolve him from the way he handles certain situations, the way he talks about things and treats people, and the unforced errors that he and his administration make. He brings the microscope upon himself more than he should.
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I agree with this but, and it's probably just me, anyway, it seems every time me or anyone makes a comment that is supportive of Trump or the very least doesn't absolutely condemn him we're considered hard core Trump supporters, or Trumpers, etc. Not all of us are "hard core", you can vote for someone and not be a die hard supporter. It's happened in almost all Presidential elections I've voted in.
 
metwannabe said:
I agree with this but, and it's probably just me, anyway, it seems every time me or anyone makes a comment that is supportive of Trump or the very least doesn't absolutely condemn him we're considered hard core Trump supporters, or Trumpers, etc. Not all of us are "hard core", you can vote for someone and not be a die hard supporter. It's happened in almost all Presidential elections I've voted in.
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I agree with that. I'm a trumper over at AmPol. In all fairness, though, I usually default to whatever side all of the others over there take just to troll. I think some gripes against him are legitimate. I think some are trumped up.
 
Rain Cold said:
I agree with that. I'm a trumper over at AmPol. In all fairness, though, I usually default to whatever side all of the others over there take just to troll. I think some gripes against him are legitimate. I think some are trumped up.
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Maybe I should go over there and troll.... sounds like fun! Lol
 
Rain Cold said:
I agree with that. I'm a trumper over at AmPol. In all fairness, though, I usually default to whatever side all of the others over there take just to troll. I think some gripes against him are legitimate. I think some are trumped up.
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If he'd just shut up and govern, problem is he lets his emotions get in the way
 
Rain Cold said:
I can definitely corroborate that you and Shaggy both are seen as very far right-wingers over at AmPol. I think a lot of what you are seeing with hard core Trump voters is that it isn't your usual stance of Right vs. Left or Conservative vs. Liberal. Instead, it's Trump vs. The System, where virtually ALL of The System has it in for Trump from Day 1. I think there is some truth to this. But I am also not so unreasonable that I ignore the fact that he has helped contribute to it.

For this case specifically, I see all of the information and testimony that has leaked out or been made available. While it doesn't look great for Trump, it has not been tested yet from a legal defense standpoint. Once that process is underway, we'll be able to view all of it in its entire context. For me, I think that's the fair approach. For hard core Trump supporters, he hasn't done anything wrong ever. For anti-Trumpers, he's guilty of many, many crimes, and should probably be in prison.

Personally, I think there is some truth to the fact that he's really upset The System, leading to a lot of leaks and attacks that simply didn't happen with previous administrations (not to say there weren't attacks, but if Obama would have had such a phone call with Ukraine, I doubt it would have ever seen the light of day). However, that doesn't absolve him from the way he handles certain situations, the way he talks about things and treats people, and the unforced errors that he and his administration make. He brings the microscope upon himself more than he should.
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That is pretty much where I stand. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Trump colluded with Russians, obstructed justice and restricted aid to Ukraine for dirt. That said, I don’t care because to assume this isn’t common practice in DC is silly and justice has never been met out for worse offenses. Heck Weiner got a slap on the wrist for sending naked pictures to a minor.

That all said I didn’t vote for Trump and will not next year, so my opinion really doesn’t matter.
 
Downeastnc said:
Several things.....first the US intelligence community has repeatedly told Trump and his administration that the hacking was done by Russians, there was no Ukrainian interference in 2016.....Trump can not ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival as he stands to gain personally, which is why Trump is doing illegal and unethical actions when he ask.

The Ukrainians have said as far back as the spring of this year that the Bidens are not under investigation and more importantly they never were.....there is no conspiracy, even when Burisma was under investigation it was for a period of time several years before Biden JR took the job on the board. There was nothing illegal about Biden Jr having that job or making the income he was making.....

This is from back in May before this became a well known issue...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...utor-says-no-evidence-of-wrongdoing-by-bidens

This tweet of a statement from the head of the FEC pretty much explains why Trump cant ask a foreign government to investigate Biden.....she tweeted out the first time in June and just retweeted it right after Trump asked China to look into Biden.

View attachment 24983
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Hunter Biden was hired just weeks after the VP was asked by Obama to oversee US-Ukraine relations, Hunter himself has admitted that he was hired because his last name was Biden.

And any of us can pull news articles to support either side of the debate... for instance from The Hill

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.


and the full article https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story
 
Downeastnc said:
I will have to refer this to Cold Rain since he post at the other political board and can attest they consider me a far right wing nut......especially IRT guns.....I was vocal against many Obama and Hillary antics and policies........I have zero problem with Hillary or Obama being held responsible for any and all crimes they can be proven to have committed.....the difference is I feel the exact same way about Trump when he screws up. Just because Hillary/Obama have not been held accountable does not mean I look the other way when its Trump......I am not a liberal or a democrat I just HATE that people are so jaded and twisted by their partisanship and I feel like I have taken a crazy pill watching people on my side defend Trump of things that would have had them DEMANDING the others sides leaders head on a platter.
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I consider you a rare moderate overall, which is refreshing to me as I'm moderately conservative overall and I like to see folks more accepting of compromise for the greater good and not so partisan that they can't sometimes see the other side. I am not a fan of tribalism/closed-mindedness, which seems to control most political discussions on both sides.
 
GaWx said:
I consider you a rare moderate overall, which is refreshing to me as I'm moderately conservative overall and I like to see folks more accepting of compromise for the greater good and not so partisan that they can't sometimes see the other side. I am not a fan of tribalism/closed-mindedness, which seems to control most political discussions on both sides.
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I'll be completely honest here and is probably a reason I should refrain from the political discussion most of the time. But my loyalty to the conservative cause stems from Christian views and there just aren't many things I'm willing to compromise on, especially when it comes to what many would consider very divisive social causes (i.e. abortion, same sex marriage, etc). If that makes me a tribalist and close minded then so be it.

Now there are those that will come at me for claiming Christian views while voting for Trump, but if you don't understand my rationale for voting for an individual I think has serious moral issues by now, then your not paying attention Lol
 
metwannabe said:
Maybe I should go over there and troll.... sounds like fun! Lol
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If you've never read that board, you're probably going to be in for a shock. There are a good number of noncivil folks there, mainly on the far left side. Civility is rare, with RC/CR being about the most civil. For example, there's one far left person there who claims to be a devout Christian woman, who cusses like a sailor, and who constantly insults so many fellow posters. She/he claims that devout Christians are allowed to insult/cuss as Jesus never said one can't or some such nonsense. CR can confirm. What gets me is that this person acts as if she/he is all knowing and yet has turned out to be flat out wrong on a number of occasions. It is really weird. The activity there reminds me of the "kayfabe" of wrestling. And it has been going on for years. If it survives another 10 years, it will be about the same imo.
 
GaWx said:
If you've never read that board, you're probably going to be in for a shock. There are a good number of noncivil folks there, mainly on the far left side. Civility is rare, with RC/CR being about the most civil. For example, there's one far left person there who claims to be a devout Christian woman, who cusses like a sailor, and who constantly insults so many fellow posters. She/he claims that devout Christians are allowed to insult/cuss as Jesus never said one can't or some such nonsense. CR can conrirm. What gets me is that this person acts as if she/he is all knowing and yet has turned out to be flat out wrong on a number of occasions. It is really weird. The activity there reminds me of the "kayfabe" of wrestling. And it has been going on for years. if it survives another 10 years, it will be about the same.
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In that case I probably need not venture over there....
 
metwannabe said:
Hunter Biden was hired just weeks after the VP was asked by Obama to oversee US-Ukraine relations, Hunter himself has admitted that he was hired because his last name was Biden.

And any of us can pull news articles to support either side of the debate... for instance from The Hill

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.


and the full article https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story
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No doubt Biden Jr gets jobs because of his name.....that while questionable on a moral and ethical standpoint it is not illegal....I am sure now he wishes he had turned down the offer. Second the investigations into Burisma had nothing to do with Biden Jr, the only thing they did was provide Biden Jr's salary for his time with Bursima so the US could confirm he pd the proper taxes.......that's it.

Biden pressuring the Ukraine to get rid of Shokin was a US political move supported by the State Dept, and the EU and other governing bodies.....its not like it was Biden alone who decided to do this to protect his son, that did not factor in at all. Besides the reason the US/EU etc wanted Shokin gone was he was not investigating enough, Shokin was heavily involved in the corruption and getting pd off to look the other way, so the reality is the US and EU etc pressured the Ukraine to fire Shokin because they wanted someone who was going to investigate and take a hardline on corruption contrary to what Shokin was doing.

John Solomon the guy that wrote that oped for the Hill you linked is a famous Trump man.....he also has close ties to the recently arrested Parnas the Ukrainian fixer who is accused of working with Rudy to create the Biden controversy, he is the one who put Solomon in contact with a prosecutor that gave that info to Solomon for that story......I would tread carefully there.
 
I'm not supporting Trump because I'm a right wing nut job, I'm pretty much a middle of road conservative. What people don't understand is this is not a right vs left issue. This is a normal people verse the system corruption issue.
 
Globalism vs US exceptionalism. Deep State/Media vs American citizens and freedom. We have people in every facet of US government that hate the US, and any foreign entity that is our ally. People like the "squad" only like the US if they can transform it into something that eliminates the US constitution.
 
Busting at the seams to jump in here ... but the fear is, however unintentional, truly alienating some very nice folks ... plus retirement is fun ... just sit back, read and SMH ...
 
Avalanche said:
Globalism vs US exceptionalism. Deep State/Media vs American citizens and freedom. We have people in every facet of US government that hate the US, and any foreign entity that is our ally. People like the "squad" only like the US if they can transform it into something that eliminates the US constitution.
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You're right about the squad but that's a problem shared by the worst of trumps base. They would eliminate the constitution just as quickly if it meant they got what they wanted.

Some of his policies are ok. Most of his antics are not. His personality is nothing to be emulated. He is a sorry man and some people can separate his personality from his politics and support him.

I wasnt able to do so. I have a 3 yr old and I refuse to marginalize how trump bragged about grabbing women by the crotch. That is despicable.

If your wife comes home and says some guy did that to her what's your first reaction? Do you say "was he rich, have power, or have strong ideas for national policy"? Hell no.

Are we to teach our young men this is acceptable? How about our young women? Tell them it's ok as long as the man was rich and powerful? That alone was enough to completely turn me away from trump. We should never marginalize that behavior.
 
Bham 99 said:
I'm not supporting Trump because I'm a right wing nut job, I'm pretty much a middle of road conservative. What people don't understand is this is not a right vs left issue. This is a normal people verse the system corruption issue.
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Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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Time will tell. At least we have a fighter that may not be politically correct than someone is going to be a pushover
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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I've had a negative impression of Trump's character for several decades. So, his behavior isn't totally shocking. However, I never in a million years would have thought he'd treat McCain's Vietnam service like he did, especially since he, himself, didn't serve. Also, you probably already know that he has't always been conservative or Republican.
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......[/QUOTE].

Its not up to Trump to do that, its up to the left, and they have. That's how we wound up with the lack of constitutional conservatism in the 9th circuit COA.
 
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