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Political Thread: The Sequel

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Arcc said:
It’s not the wall, it’s the argument you are making that defies logic. You first said if we deport them it may make them more violent, now if we build a wall it will make them more violent and dependent on gangs. If both are true, how is backhanding the countries they live in to force them to stay not also gonna make the more gang dependent or violent?

Simple truth is if this is our argument then open borders it is. The only other argument is to have our military treat you as a terrorist and shoot you if you are in one of these gangs.
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Deporting them constantly with no real punishment just sets them up as more likely to engage in more aggressive manners, especially criminals.

A wall will waste our money and those who wish harm or crime will get around it. Those deterred may be incentivized to join them to get in.

Working with the nations like I've said all along is the best solution. Won't be overnight but none of these nations are fully independent and will work with someone.

Legal immigration also isn't open borders and I'm sure half these people don't know what is required who aren't criminals. Work with those who will benefit America for proper visas and naturalization and you'll solve some issues around it.

The answer either way isn't easy and none of us know a definitive way to solve it, nor do our politicians clearly.
 
Ethan80963 said:
I believe it’s just differing opinions. We both told our sides and neither agreed on anything eachother said so I guess we both apply to this. I have a degree in political science so I try to hear out everyone and have an open mind and consider both sides, but not everyone has to agree on everything. Just apart of politics
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I have a degree in political science and a master's degree in public policy and I disagree with you so there's that.
 
Sandbar said:
You aren't going to catch all of them but that isn't the point of the wall. Walls/ barriers of this magnitude are meant to control flow. There are lots of additional things we could do to enhance that even further but it starts with that wall first and anybody who has spent time securing an area of this magnitude will tell you the same things I'm telling you. We know why you don't like it but you will never admit it in 1000 years
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Words won't be put in my mouth by you that's for certain.

I thought the argument that was being made was to stop dangerous people? Isn't that what's being advertised mainly as justification for it? If it isn't stopping a majority of the threats, which make up way less of the immigrants, why put infrastructure in place that drains our taxpayer's pockets? The justification for the scale of the problem is not logical.

Yes, it will stop a lot of immigration, but you have to admit the statements of justification for the wall all tie back to crime.
 
ForsythSnow said:
Deporting them constantly with no real punishment just sets them up as more likely to engage in more aggressive manners, especially criminals.

A wall will waste our money and those who wish harm or crime will get around it. Those deterred may be incentivized to join them to get in.

Working with the nations like I've said all along is the best solution. Won't be overnight but none of these nations are fully independent and will work with someone.

Legal immigration also isn't open borders and I'm sure half these people don't know what is required who aren't criminals. Work with those who will benefit America for proper visas and naturalization and you'll solve some issues around it.

The answer either way isn't easy and none of us know a definitive way to solve it, nor do our politicians clearly.
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It's a felony if they re-deport you. A felony carries jail times and puts the offender off the street.
 
Sandbar said:
I have a degree in stopping people from penetrating a perimeter. An advanced degree at that. I'm trying to help you understand through the eyes of the people who risk their lives down there but you refuse time and again to listen to a word I say. I respect your opinion but I am offering you mine based on years of experience. Some of you get so dug in on some of these things it blinds you. No offense......
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I do listen. Trust me I do take what you say into account. There are just flaws in what you say. We cannot track everyone that comes. We cannot deport everyone here that would take time, money, and resources we don’t have (people, equipment, and a place to send them). We cannot put a warrant out for everyone here illegally due to money and our judicial system could simply not handle it. I look at facts that’s why most of my posts have receipts so others can read on what I say. I wish others would do the same instead of “trust me bro”
 
Bham 99 said:
I have a degree in political science and a master's degree in public policy and I disagree with you so there's that.
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Sure buddy. And why is that? If you have a degree in PLSC you know that in politics people are gonna disagree and that’s just apart of it.
 
ForsythSnow said:
Deporting them constantly with no real punishment just sets them up as more likely to engage in more aggressive manners, especially criminals.

A wall will waste our money and those who wish harm or crime will get around it. Those deterred may be incentivized to join them to get in.

Working with the nations like I've said all along is the best solution. Won't be overnight but none of these nations are fully independent and will work with someone.

Legal immigration also isn't open borders and I'm sure half these people don't know what is required who aren't criminals. Work with those who will benefit America for proper visas and naturalization and you'll solve some issues around it.

The answer either way isn't easy and none of us know a definitive way to solve it, nor do our politicians clearly.
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Then the first answer would to define real punishment. If we aren’t willing to go there then the answer is open borders.

If we are worried about the ones who will get around the wall anyways but not look at how many it would keep it. Then the answer is open boarders and the fact that anyone who puts up fences is stupid.

Working with the nations will only work if we are willing to depose leaders and effectively cleanse the countries of cartels. Otherwise like I said, what you fear will happen already. Then the answer is open borders.

There is absolutely no definite way to stop it, but the current plan definitely isn’t working.
 
severestorm said:
You got called out trying to use your degree as a crutch.
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Called out how? In my comment he responded to I simply talked about how we don’t agree and that my degree and professional experience has helped me be more open to other’s opinions and we still didn’t agree I was not touting nor bragging. I apologize if you didnt agree with me putting that in there
 
Bham 99 said:
My point was that degrees Don't matter when you're posting on a weather board.
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That’s very valid. It doesn’t I simply put it in there to say that due to my professional experience and degree I try to be more open minded when talking about politics I apologize if it upset you that I added that in there
 
ForsythSnow said:
Words won't be put in my mouth by you that's for certain.

I thought the argument that was being made was to stop dangerous people? Isn't that what's being advertised mainly as justification for it? If it isn't stopping a majority of the threats, which make up way less of the immigrants, why put infrastructure in place that drains our taxpayer's pockets? The justification for the scale of the problem is not logical.

Yes, it will stop a lot of immigration, but you have to admit the statements of justification for the wall all tie back to crime.
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My views on a wall came long before Trump ever got into politics and the absolute worst part of your disagreement on this is the $$$ issue you keep harping on because that's just a BS excuse. I do have connections to people who work down there and I know EXACTLY who and what has come through that border the last 4 years. What's here and what's coming could have likely been prevented but I get it. You don't want "Trump's wall" or a Trump supporters POV on it period. The president's #1 priority to the country is to protect it and the world we live in now is far more dangerous than it has ever been. To say it's a drain on taxpayers is a foolish argument and I would hope as an educated person you would understand that
 
GaWx said:
Yep, lol.
I actually don’t think he ever believed the Big Lie. He’s not that ignorant. In other words I think he’s the biggest liar of all regarding 2020. That’s likely why he misspoke and admitted to losing. He had a momentary brain fart and told what he knows is the truth.
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Here's a dude that just withholding the evidence he has and paying 1k a day for the fun of it.

www.yahoo.com

Conservative activist Joe Oltmann fined $1,000 a day until he discloses evidence to court

On Wednesday, election conspiracy theorist Joe Oltmann was given a $1,000 a day fine as long as he continues to withhold claims of election rigging.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Ethan80963 said:
I do listen. Trust me I do take what you say into account. There are just flaws in what you say. We cannot track everyone that comes. We cannot deport everyone here that would take time, money, and resources we don’t have (people, equipment, and a place to send them). We cannot put a warrant out for everyone here illegally due to money and our judicial system could simply not handle it. I look at facts that’s why most of my posts have receipts so others can read on what I say. I wish others would do the same instead of “trust me bro”
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Your argument about warrants and deportation has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make here. That's an argument you are having with someone else. We shouldn't have criminals walking across our border PERIOD and we should do everything in our power to prevent it. We have thousands and thousands of people with bad intentions that have come across that border. They have come from South American prisons, China, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, and every other nation that posed a threat to us. We ARE going to be attacked again at some point because of the gross negligence of this administration and we could have lessened those chances greatly if not for the egos of those who hate the orange man
 
Sandbar said:
My views on a wall came long before Trump ever got into politics and the absolute worst part of your disagreement on this is the $$$ issue you keep harping on because that's just a BS excuse. I do have connections to people who work down there and I know EXACTLY who and what has come through that border the last 4 years. What's here and what's coming could have likely been prevented but I get it. You don't want "Trump's wall" or a Trump supporters POV on it period. The president's #1 priority to the country is to protect it and the world we live in now is far more dangerous than it has ever been. To say it's a drain on taxpayers is a foolish argument and I would hope as an educated person you would understand that
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I don't care if it's the most liked person in the worlds wall. If you read my posts ever you'd know I dislike both candidates but I'm not delusional about hating Trump. Logically he is the better candidate for our nation but I personally don't wish to support him or the other less appealing option. It doesn't mean I'm TDS.

As for your perspective you have a higher focus on that because connections. I could tell you we are also at extreme risk of cyber attacks knowing how some of it is run and wouldn't take more than a skilled Chinese 16 year old with a grudge against America to take a city down, but do we run for high maximum security even if the cost and risk of disrupting said city's infrastructure is high? It has to be calculated and planned and understood, and multiple routes must be taken to better secure that city's infrastructure.
 
Downeastnc said:
They need to make it easy to be legal....the process to become a guest worker on a short term visa should be very simple. Get people documented, create an ID for them so they can work legally and pay taxes. Limit it to 12 or 18 months and require them to re up after that time. Regardless of what many here seem to believe the vast majority of these people want to be legal, they want to pay taxes they want a stable enviromnet for their families. Instead if a wall we need to spend that money on building a system to make it easier to get in the country legally.
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I want both. But yes, reform needs to happen on immigration for sure
 
ForsythSnow said:
I don't care if it's the most liked person in the worlds wall. If you read my posts ever you'd know I dislike both candidates but I'm not delusional about hating Trump. Logically he is the better candidate for our nation but I personally don't wish to support him or the other less appealing option. It doesn't mean I'm TDS.

As for your perspective you have a higher focus on that because connections. I could tell you we are also at extreme risk of cyber attacks knowing how some of it is run and wouldn't take more than a skilled Chinese 16 year old with a grudge against America to take a city down, but do we run for high maximum security even if the cost and risk of disrupting said city's infrastructure is high? It has to be calculated and planned and understood, and multiple routes must be taken to better secure that city's infrastructure.
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Fair enough. If your biggest reason for not wanting a wall is $$$ which it appears to be (based on your post) then I really don't understand where your security and the countries security stands on the list of priorities. It should be #1 in 2024. Trump's wall is sick drawer money when compared to what we have been really wasting money on.
 
Sandbar said:
Fair enough. If your biggest reason for not wanting a wall is $$$ which it appears to be (based on your post) then I really don't understand where your security and the countries security stands on the list of priorities. It should be #1 in 2024. Trump's wall is sick drawer money when compared to what we have been really wasting money on.
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My top priority for the next 4 years is the economy followed by a safer nation that doesn't get involved in pointless avoidable conflicts that would have little to no affect on our nation. Immigration as a whole is top 3. If our economy goes completely in the toilet then we'll have more dangerous US citizens to worry about threatening our neighborhoods due to widespread desperation than those coming into the country who aren't American. We're going to decline but there's a difference between a landing with some cushion and slamming headfirst into the pavement.
 
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