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Political Thread: The Sequel

Sandbar said:
Some division exist in any society civilized or not. What we are seeing now is way beyond the norm
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Of course what we are seeing now is way beyond the norm because our connectivity has evolved at such a rapid pace over the last 15 years. Everyone blasts their opinion out there in the open today and everyone can see it. In the past, you had to actually have an in person conversation with someone to tell if you were “divided” from them.
 
Rain Cold said:
I don't think anyone on the right in here at least are saying "don't work with other countries at all in any way shape or form". But when you have a gunshot wound to the chest, you don't stand around and say, "Hmmmm, well, I believe that might could be avoided in the future if we just all sing kumbaya and work together for peace and harmony." You stop the bleeding and get your a$$ to the hospital.

We have people pouring in. This is terrible for the country. That isn't debatable. It's not mysterious. It's not a hard concept to grasp at all. Stop it as safely as you can as quick as you can. And then deal with the long term stuff.

Ok, next lib. Go.
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Speaking solely on the topic of the Federal Government here. Many on the D side don’t see the Rs acting in good faith when they strip provisions from a border bill that would require smaller businesses to verify eligibility or increase punishment for those that violate the law.

My personal opinion is that I don’t think we’ll see border action that either of us want. Big and small businesses have every incentive to employ these people as the cost of labor for Americans has gone up. Kamala says she would sign the border bill Day 1 but I don’t see it getting through a R House. A D House would have trouble getting everyone onboard because of the left wing of the party.
 
ChrisAMB said:
Do you consider yourself an optimist by nature or a pessimist?

I’m nearing 40 and just don’t see this huge divide in the real world. Online spaces like social media aren’t a representation of real life at all so I ignore them. I worked in Washington for a time and did campaign work after and saw Rs and Ds work together every day. Each side has their wishes but in the end the majority understood compromise was inevitable. That’s still the case today.

Looking back in history I see a different set of problems than what we had in the 80s or 90s but not necessarily a worse set of problems. The meshing of the right wing of the Republican Party and the dying evangelical church does give me some concern only because I have a personal connection to Northern Ireland and know what religious tension mixed with politics can create. On my side of the political aisle I’ve seen the left wing become a bit more prominent during Obama’s terms but peter out a bit when Bernie Sanders failed in his bid to win the nomination. I see the D party adopting much more of the country club republican type as it’s mainstream these days and incorporating left ideas when they fit.
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I am a soldier my man. I am a "realist". If you can't see what many of us here see then you obviously don't live the type of life where it affects you. The America I live in today is NOT the country I fought for and my fear is that her best days are behind her. Like I said before I can leave and I have one foot already out the door. The two people running on the ticket for "your side" are as radical as it gets and they aren't even running the show. I hope at some point that you wake up and aknowledge that they are screwing you too and laughing all the way to the bank
 
weatherfide said:
It seems like it would be fairly simple. If other countries can do it, we should be able to as well. Try to rush the border in Russia and see what kind of response you get. Force them to the check points and only allow vetted immigrants. Install as many obstacles as possible. Live fire as a last resort. If you're not coming through the designated checkpoint, you are an invader and should be treated as an enemy. Stop all of this catch and release crap. It should be catch and send back and told you can never qualify to enter again.
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Well to be fair anything Russia does we can automatically assume doing the opposite is the correct course.

I’m much more in favor of stopping the illegal immigration through our civilian law enforcement. DHS could do it with the laws they have on the books now they just lack the people and funding. Funny enough they’ve started to look at the northern border more closely as Canada has brought in huge numbers of south Asian immigrants with quite literally nowhere to house them. The housing crisis in Canada is acute and there’s a big backlash against these people right now. Increasingly they’re being apprehended trying to enter the US.
 
ChrisAMB said:
I haven’t seen a single poster advocate for open borders. Despite what the cable news chyrons tell you you’d be hard pressed to find anyone in the real world that thinks that and isn’t trolling.

What this discussion is about is solving the acute issue or solving the actual problem. Walling off the border with land mines doesn’t solve the problem. When we help create the conditions in Central America that enable people to stay in their own countries then we’ll have solved the problem. Other issues such as Mexico looking the other way when international migrants show up can be solved by diplomacy and if needed financial incentive.
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Walling off the border and installing land mines does solve our problem. The issue in Central America is for Central America to solve. Also, sealing our border is the condition that Central America needs to convince people to stay in their own countries. We just need all visitors to knock on the door and ask politely to be let in. We then need to make sure they are properly vetted before opening the door. Easy button.
 
ChrisAMB said:
Do you consider yourself an optimist by nature or a pessimist?

I’m nearing 40 and just don’t see this huge divide in the real world. Online spaces like social media aren’t a representation of real life at all so I ignore them. I worked in Washington for a time and did campaign work after and saw Rs and Ds work together every day. Each side has their wishes but in the end the majority understood compromise was inevitable. That’s still the case today.

Looking back in history I see a different set of problems than what we had in the 80s or 90s but not necessarily a worse set of problems. The meshing of the right wing of the Republican Party and the dying evangelical church does give me some concern only because I have a personal connection to Northern Ireland and know what religious tension mixed with politics can create. On my side of the political aisle I’ve seen the left wing become a bit more prominent during Obama’s terms but peter out a bit when Bernie Sanders failed in his bid to win the nomination. I see the D party adopting much more of the country club republican type as it’s mainstream these days and incorporating left ideas when they fit.
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I don't know where this notion that religion has never been part of our country's political and social policies came from. The entire historical structure of our society is built on a Judeo Christian framework. It's the attempts by the minority to extract and eradicate that framework that is at issue. We're not trying to replace the engine. We're trying to keep the engine running that you're attempting to break, because it's the engine that's allowed us to prosper for 250 years.

And there is a much, MUCH greater divide in the country today than 20 years ago. You can't even talk politics or beliefs with your own family now. This isn't isolated either. It's everywhere. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And it's going to get a whole lot worse if the left has its way.
 
ChrisAMB said:
Speaking solely on the topic of the Federal Government here. Many on the D side don’t see the Rs acting in good faith when they strip provisions from a border bill that would require smaller businesses to verify eligibility or increase punishment for those that violate the law.

My personal opinion is that I don’t think we’ll see border action that either of us want. Big and small businesses have every incentive to employ these people as the cost of labor for Americans has gone up. Kamala says she would sign the border bill Day 1 but I don’t see it getting through a R House. A D House would have trouble getting everyone onboard because of the left wing of the party.
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Those border bills are chock full of BS and you know it. Biden can close that thing down in 2 seconds despite his lies but he doesn't know what day it is. Most of us here see it a national security risk because it is 1000%. The security of our country isn't about getting something you want in exchange for it. You have been duped
 
weatherfide said:
Walling off the border and installing land mines does solve our problem. The issue in Central America is for Central America to solve. Also, sealing our border is the condition that Central America needs to convince people to stay in their own countries. We just need all visitors to knock on the door and ask politely to be let in. We then need to make sure they are properly vetted before opening the door. Easy button.
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I hope we get more Muslim migrants, I feel so alone :confused: thinking of opening a couple mosques in Fayetteville ga and establishing the “Mecca” of the southeast there
 
ChrisAMB said:
Speaking solely on the topic of the Federal Government here. Many on the D side don’t see the Rs acting in good faith when they strip provisions from a border bill that would require smaller businesses to verify eligibility or increase punishment for those that violate the law.

My personal opinion is that I don’t think we’ll see border action that either of us want. Big and small businesses have every incentive to employ these people as the cost of labor for Americans has gone up. Kamala says she would sign the border bill Day 1 but I don’t see it getting through a R House. A D House would have trouble getting everyone onboard because of the left wing of the party.
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Neither side acts in the best faith on the issue. But it should be appalling to everyone to just allow people in unchecked and unabated.
 
ChrisAMB said:
"Well to be fair anything Russia does we can automatically assume doing the opposite is the correct course." - this is an illogical statement. For example, Russia relies heavily on nuclear power, so should we should abandon it? They build dams for drinking water and power generation and build roads and railroads for transportation - not a good thing for us to do? Russia doesn't have to be our enemy. In many ways, our current administration resembles them: Lawfare, trying to imprison your opposition, rampant corruption, propaganda through state run media outlets, etc.

"I’m much more in favor of stopping the illegal immigration through our civilian law enforcement. DHS could do it with the laws they have on the books now they just lack the people and funding. Funny enough they’ve started to look at the northern border more closely as Canada has brought in huge numbers of south Asian immigrants with quite literally nowhere to house them. The housing crisis in Canada is acute and there’s a big backlash against these people right now. Increasingly they’re being apprehended trying to enter the US." Big problem with Chinese entering now. What are they up to? Huge security risk.
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Rain Cold said:
I don't know where this notion that religion has never been part of our country's political and social policies came from. The entire historical structure of our society is built on a Judeo Christian framework. It's the attempts by the minority to extract and eradicate that framework that is at issue. We're not trying to replace the engine. We're trying to keep the engine running that you're attempting to break, because it's the engine that's allowed us to prosper for 250 years.

And there is a much, MUCH greater divide in the country today than 20 years ago. You can't even talk politics or beliefs with your own family now. This isn't isolated either. It's everywhere. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And it's going to get a whole lot worse if the left has its way.
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Never any self accountability for the maga crowd. If there's no civility then it must be the lefts fault. Nevermind the maga crowd that threatens to kill every one that goes against them from the government.

Hang mike pence, kill Kinzingers 10mo old
 
LickWx said:
I think you could lose some weight here. Start runnin jelly bean! Being 50% of your local McDonald’s income is not cool! Check the fresh produce section of food lion out or somin Shawn! Might get faster and catch you a couple migrants

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If I lost more weight, I'd be considered anorexic but thanks for the concern.
 
Immigration has become the new political watch word, like abortion used to be, if the politicians of either side solve the problem then what do they have to rile up their base. If they solve the problem, what do they run on? Isn't that why they couldn't pass the bipartisan bill in an election year?
 
Polymarket is to not be used for any type of actual odds regardless of what they say.

It's a bunch of crypto bros betting cents for a dollar and taking the underdog is almost always the best choice to win appreciable money.
 
Rain Cold said:
I don't know where this notion that religion has never been part of our country's political and social policies. The entire historical structure of our society is built on a Judeo Christian framework. It's the attempts by the minority to extract and eradicate that framework that is at issue. We're not trying to replace the engine. We're trying to keep the engine running that you're attempting to break, because it's the engine that's allowed us to prosper for 250 years.

And there is a much, MUCH greater divide in the country today than 20 years ago. You can't even talk politics or beliefs with your own family now. This isn't isolated either. It's everywhere. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And it's going to get a whole lot worse if the left has its way.
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I talk politics with folks nearly every day and it’s almost always pleasant. There’s a certain group of people it’s not pleasant with and I’ll let you figure out who that is. Here’s a hint: They probably didn’t vote before 2016.

The subject of religion in politics isn’t what I’m talking about. What I’m referring to is the sort of pre-millennial movement that got traction among the Baptists and became popular during the Cold War. I understand why it did (The Soviets won’t nuke us because Jesus would rapture us first) and I think those ideas have foundered a bit post collapse of the Soviet Union. Protestant culture was more or less “American” culture for a long time. With the steep decline of Evangelical worshippers that group has kind of carved its own niche into the Republican Party as the more moderate worshippers have peeled off. With it has come some bizarre ideas of domestic and foreign policy. I see it all as a last gasp from the Baby Boomer generation as this is probably their last presidential cycle of relevance. The majority of people follow a religion so I don’t see it being detached from our politics and personally don’t think it should be.

What gets my attention is hearing political figures talk in these apocalyptic terms that previously were reserved for rather dark religious sermons. Having a connection to N. Ireland I’ve heard all the stories of Catholic and Protestant Irish and how they combined end-times religious messaging with politics to encourage some really horrible things. I don’t think any of that would happen here but at the same time I do wish they’d knock it off. It’s just little too close to home.
 
Sandbar said:
Those border bills are chock full of BS and you know it. Biden can close that thing down in 2 seconds despite his lies but he doesn't know what day it is. Most of us here see it a national security risk because it is 1000%. The security of our country isn't about getting something you want in exchange for it. You have been duped
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The issue is the Federal Court system. Biden does have the power in theory but it would be immediately challenged and probably stayed in court. That’s why legislation is needed.
 
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