• Hello, please take a minute to check out our awesome content, contributed by the wonderful members of our community. We hope you'll add your own thoughts and opinions by making a free account!

Learning Model Discussion 2/9-2/10

SD said:
Hold on...so am I reading that 500mb isn't relevant when it comes to weather and the surface is more important?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah! Something like that...SMH!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NorthGAWinterWx said:
Thank you bouncycorn! Looking at H5 is not always important, specially trying to determine winter weather.

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

bouncycorn said:
That's not necessarily true. Actually it's not true at all. Surface features and H5 features affect each other all the time. A low often strengthens a trough. A cold core high can form under both a ridge and trough. It can be blazing hot under a trough or cold under a ridge. They affect each other. H5 is not always an end all solution. Also, H3 has a huge impact on cyclogenesis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I hope you guys realize that these two levels are tightly coupled and usually do not operate independently of one another... Cold core highs actually form underneath the backend of an upper level trough and front end of an oncoming upper level ridge due to mass continuity requirements induced by confluent, decelerating, sinking air aloft. In the case of ageostrophic transverse circulations induced by upper level jet streaks within the mean flow, this concept can modify slightly...
 
Webberweather53 said:
I hope you guys realize that these two levels are tightly coupled and usually do not operate independently of one another... Cold core highs actually form underneath the backend of an upper level trough and front end of an oncoming upper level ridge due to mass continuity requirements induced by confluent, decelerating, sinking air aloft. In the case of ageostrophic transverse circulations induced by upper level jet streaks within the mean flow, this concept can modify slightly...
Click to expand...

That was my point. H5 doesn't control the surface there are many other features that control surface conditions. Also surface features can impact H5 and other upper air features.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SD said:
Hold on...so am I reading that 500mb isn't relevant when it comes to weather and the surface is more important?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
somethings you cant make up

this thread fell in the sh***** 24 hours ago. if the euro and eps suck I'm locking it

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
bouncycorn said:
That was my point. H5 doesn't control the surface there are many other features that control surface conditions. Also surface features can impact H5 and other upper air features.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No, the 500 hpa level actually can control the surface, in fact, anywhere in the atmospheric column at or above the surface can influence what occurs near the ground via mass continuity (among a host of other forces). The 500 hpa level is often chosen to analyze features such as vorticity because it's the level of non-divergence wherein mass is usually neither diverging or converging in this layer, these tend to occur at the boundaries of the troposphere....
 
What is happening in this thread? I have this book, from middle school that explains basic absolute vorticity and stuff. divergence, convergence. I think I may need to upload it. It's a little lacking because it's for ages 8-12 years old, but it easily gets the point across.
 
Webberweather53 said:
No, the 500 hpa level actually can control the surface, in fact, anywhere in the atmospheric column at or above the surface can influence what occurs near the ground via mass continuity (among a host of other forces). The 500 hpa level is often chosen to analyze features such as vorticity because it's the level of non-divergence wherein mass is usually neither diverging or converging in this layer, these tend to occur at the boundaries of the troposphere....
Click to expand...
Good post

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
 
Agree with Eric. I think the point was with experience looking at H5 and vorticity, one can "see" what's happening at the surface (more or less) without loading up the mslp charts...especially when tracking certain features and storm evolution. A low isn't magically going to pop if it doesn't match up with the look at h5...the surface is reflective of h5, simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jon said:
Agree with Eric. I think the point was with experience looking at H5 and vorticity, one can "see" what's happening at the surface (more or less) without loading up the mslp charts...especially when tracking certain features and storm evolution. A low isn't magically going to pop if it doesn't match up with the look at h5...the surface is reflective of h5, simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

H5 just shows "why" something isnt being reflected on the surface that someone may be looking for. At least that's the way I use it.
 
When I pull up the models the first thing I go to is H5 unless we are just a few hours away from a storm. You can almost scroll through a gfs run and look at only H5 and know if it was good or not

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
 
I am admittedly nowhere near as smart as 99.9% of the folks here - so may I digress a second and thank many of you for the education this morning and early afternoon? if so, Thanks!
 
Jon said:
Agree with Eric. I think the point was with experience looking at H5 and vorticity, one can "see" what's happening at the surface (more or less) without loading up the mslp charts...especially when tracking certain features and storm evolution. A low isn't magically going to pop if it doesn't match up with the look at h5...the surface is reflective of h5, simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks. The tight coupling between the mid-upper troposphere and surface is a primary reason why these fields can be reasonably constructed in coupled ocean-atmospheric reanalyses (such as NCEP NCAR, ERA-20CM, CERA-20C, NOAA's 20th CR, etc) in spite of the disproportionately large amount of surface observations (relative to upper air obs) before the satellite era.
 
Shawn said:
What is happening in this thread? I have this book, from middle school that explains basic absolute vorticity and stuff. divergence, convergence. I think I may need to upload it. It's a little lacking because it's for ages 8-12 years old, but it easily gets the point across.
Click to expand...

LOL! Nice...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's okay, the surface will make this happen: H5 is wrong and even this sucks. :|

gfs_z500_vort_us_17.png
 
Pusshhh, lock this thread I don't care. Next time, I'll just be silent on what I see on the maps. Can't say anything w/o people flipping out.

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top