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Learning Global Warming facts and fiction

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snowlover91 said:
Good luck getting China to stop their emissions, and other developing countries too. The latest climate conference ended in disaster and no real progress on a solution. War and nuclear war is always a threat when you have rogue countries like N Korea, Russia or China who want to control the world.

Btw the green energy policies in CA have not been working out very well and the high taxes, regulations and other issues are significantly affecting things there now. I’ve read some articles where it’s suggested that the whole reason the electric company over there has dealt with fires and shutting power down is due to the green management policies forcing them to use maintenance funds to instead implement “green energy” instead of maintaining infrastructure. As a result now when major wind arrives people deal with 0 power for days and guess what they’re running for backup electricity? Yep, fossil fuel generators. If that’s what you want for all of America then that’s a huge step backwards imo.
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Yeah California is ironically making their living worse due to their attempts to help which are being executed poorly. For a state with a powerhouse of an economy they sure are wasting a lot of money on things that aren't working. They're too focused or trying to get sustainable energy their mediums of delivery are failing. Maybe it's all dark marketing. Make the people suffer with power outages and force them to buy solar panels for their homes so they can pat themselves on the back for "going green". I really doubt that though. It's most likely them failing to maintain because of overspending on "green energy" that went nowhere.
 
Webberweather53 said:
Nothing wrong with this map it’s just that it uses a much warmer climatology than most commonly used 1981-2010 baseline. Shifting that base period to 1987-2016 and including those 6 warm-very warm Decembers from 2011-16 and excluding those in the 80s does in fact make that much of a difference in the perceived anomaly. I personally think the weatherbell one is a more accurate representation of the current base state because we’ve already become significantly warmer than 1981-2010, at least in December anyway.

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The thing is the climate is warming so fast that each “AN” December may actually just be the temporary normal because there’s not enough time for random chance to get a good average.


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I believe in GW. But how is it possible Greenland is melting when its always a +NAO and a big blue blob of below normal heights there all winter? It should grow so dang thick in the winter that it couldn't possibly melt in the summer.
 
it's not really about belief. There is like science n crap that backs it up. It's pretty neat, you should check it out.
 
After the lows we saw in ice earlier this year (2nd lowest), the ice extent has rebounded quite quickly. Taken from the Arctic sea ice forum, check out the cool chart/graph to see where we stand. So far the cold air placement has been favorable to allow consistent extent growth in all areas. Still a long ways to go though.

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Snowless & Grumpy said:
I believe in GW. But how is it possible Greenland is melting when its always a +NAO and a big blue blob of below normal heights there all winter? It should grow so dang thick in the winter that it couldn't possibly melt in the summer.
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I don’t know if it really matters how cold it gets there in the winter since it’s going to be cold enough to add to the ice cap, regardless. They need snow to fall to increase the thickness of the ice cap, though; cold alone doesn’t really do anything. What would cause increases in the ice cap is for snowfall in the winter to outweigh melting in the summer, and the balance has been tilted towards the later for the last couple centuries.
 
Right James, and the average temp in the winter has little to nothing to do with the ice mass. Even IF the temperature goes up 10 degrees on average during the winter, the melting increase would be insignificant. So let's say the average for the past 100 years has been -25 degrees in the winter, adding 10 degrees over a 20-30 year time span would bring it up to a toasty -15 and not much melting would go on then either. The summer temps would have to increase exponentially to decrease the ice pack to make any difference. As James pointed out, increased temps would also cause increased precip in the form of snow and that would maintain the ice mass to a large extent.
 
BHS1975 said:
This video gives a good picture of whats happening to the ice.





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Too bad we don't have that nice video representation from the 1920's and 30's to compare it to. Also, the many many times the Arctic was virtually ice free in recorded history has no video either. Let's see where this stands when the AMO goes negative in a few years and the warm water (which is what really melts the ice) has cooled after a 2-3 year lag.
 
MichaelJ said:
Too bad we don't have that nice video representation from the 1920's and 30's to compare it to. Also, the many many times the Arctic was virtually ice free in recorded history has no video either. Let's see where this stands when the AMO goes negative in a few years and the warm water (which is what really melts the ice) has cooled after a 2-3 year lag.
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Ice free really? When was that? This graph shows otherwise.

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You do know there have been periods in our past when there was little IF ANY ice anywhere in the world right? Would you like to see a graph of temps for the past several million years? There are these things called ice ages and there are the intermittent periods of short duration (3-10,000 years) called interglacials where the temps warm and the ice sheets retreat. We happen to be in one of those now and have been for several thousand years and it will come to an end regardless of a .7C temperature increase so far this past 100+ years
 
MichaelJ said:
You do know there have been periods in our past when there was little IF ANY ice anywhere in the world right? Would you like to see a graph of temps for the past several million years? There are these things called ice ages and there are the intermittent periods of short duration (3-10,000 years) called interglacials where the temps warm and the ice sheets retreat. We happen to be in one of those now and have been for several thousand years and it will come to an end regardless of a .7C temperature increase so far this past 100+ years
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Lol try 3C or more by 2100. The planet will be totally transformed. There’s no precedent in the rate of warming in the Earth’s history.


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BHS1975 said:
Lol try 3C or more by 2100. The planet will be totally transformed. There’s no precedent in the rate of warming in the Earth’s history.


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It’s been far warmer in the past on the earth vs now. And ice free too.

“Pollen from three subarctic sites in the Norwegian Sea, northern Iceland and Labrador Sea indicate that mid-Pliocene January temperatures in Norway, Iceland and southeastern Canada were 4 to 10°C warmer than today (Willard 1994). … Evidence of both mixed deciduous/coniferous and coniferous forests places mean July temperatures 10°C warmer than today [in Arctic Canada] (Vincent 1990). In addition, northwestern Alaska air and sea temperatures during peak Pliocene interglacials were considerably warmer than present, by 7 to 8°C, with no permafrost, and absent or severely limited sea ice (Carter et al. 1986; Kaufman and Brigham-Grette 1993).”

“The consensus among these proxies suggests that Arctic temperatures were ∼19 °C warmer during the Pliocene than at present, while atmospheric CO2 concentrations were ∼390 ppmv.”


“Pliocene Arctic Ocean summer SSTs were appreciably warmer than modern and seasonally sea-ice free conditions existed in some regions. … At Lake El’gygytgyn (Lake ‘‘E’’) in Siberia summer temperatures were 8°C warmer than modern and at Ellesmere Island, Canada, summer and MAT [mean annual temperatures] were 11.8°C and 18.3°C higher than today.”
“[A] seasonally ice-free marginal and central Arctic Ocean was common … regionally during the early Holocene [6,000 to 10,000 years ago]. … Some species thought to be dependent on summer sea ice (e.g., polar bears) survived through these periods.”

Here is a chart that goes back 10k years.
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snowlover91 said:
It’s been far warmer in the past on the earth vs now. And ice free too.

“Pollen from three subarctic sites in the Norwegian Sea, northern Iceland and Labrador Sea indicate that mid-Pliocene January temperatures in Norway, Iceland and southeastern Canada were 4 to 10°C warmer than today (Willard 1994). … Evidence of both mixed deciduous/coniferous and coniferous forests places mean July temperatures 10°C warmer than today [in Arctic Canada] (Vincent 1990). In addition, northwestern Alaska air and sea temperatures during peak Pliocene interglacials were considerably warmer than present, by 7 to 8°C, with no permafrost, and absent or severely limited sea ice (Carter et al. 1986; Kaufman and Brigham-Grette 1993).”

“The consensus among these proxies suggests that Arctic temperatures were ∼19 °C warmer during the Pliocene than at present, while atmospheric CO2 concentrations were ∼390 ppmv.”


“Pliocene Arctic Ocean summer SSTs were appreciably warmer than modern and seasonally sea-ice free conditions existed in some regions. … At Lake El’gygytgyn (Lake ‘‘E’’) in Siberia summer temperatures were 8°C warmer than modern and at Ellesmere Island, Canada, summer and MAT [mean annual temperatures] were 11.8°C and 18.3°C higher than today.”
“[A] seasonally ice-free marginal and central Arctic Ocean was common … regionally during the early Holocene [6,000 to 10,000 years ago]. … Some species thought to be dependent on summer sea ice (e.g., polar bears) survived through these periods.”

Here is a chart that goes back 10k years.
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http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/09/paleoclimate-the-end-of-the-holocene/


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