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Pattern February Discussion Part II

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Please do not take this in any way negative --
Watching models is not the end game - models are a tool like indices and, frankly, need to be "blended" with other resources. That's why I don't post maps too often - I get afraid someone may take them as "gospel" and not pay attention to the bigger picture
But - off my soapbox now ...
10000000% agree. The models used to forecast here lately have been a failure, so at this point, I am saying use them as a broad guide, details may be completely different, and just look at overall systems and patterns because if you focus on cold air or phasing this early then it is just silly. We are within 144 hours of the low being cut off and becoming its own low. Let's get there first, then start figuring where it will go.
 
Please do not take this in any way negative --
Watching models is not the end game - models are a tool like indices and, frankly, need to be "blended" with other resources. That's why I don't post maps too often - I get afraid someone may take them as "gospel" and not pay attention to the bigger picture
(For example - I can find one map that looks "great" or "bad" and roll it 48 -72 hours out and get a whole different read - the trend and "staying power" are more instructive (I think)) ...
But - off my soapbox now ...
Yeah I know just me being pessimistic rough week so far still trying to get over Sunday night as a Falcons fan its seeping over to other things haha
 
Good grief at the bitching over that run lol.

that was a great run with that piece of the PV sitting over the GL .

I'll take the 18z gfs for 1000 of course some wont because it does not give them ten feet of modeled snow
 
Also, the biases of models always need to be taken into account. So, adjustments to model solutions that take into account model biases are the best way to handle them imo. Many sort of do that for SE US storm tracks by assuming they will move NW of the GFS track.
 
I think a greater chance at a winter storm will be between days 13-18. 1. Colder air to work with from the PV and 2. blocking will be in better positions than during the 15th-16th system. Again, some folks *could* get some snow from the 15th-16th system.

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no complaints here . give me that look and I'll take my chances with that piece hanging out over the lakes like that
 
There are a lot of positives here. Obviously verbatim the run isn't that good but I'm happy to just see some positive things on the models

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Yeah, Shane, if people would recall how much different today's runs are vs just a few days ago they'd realize that this is still a very unstable situation meaning opportunities since we're still some 8-9+ days away from potential mischief. With the combo of indices that we have projected, the strong cold near the Great Lakes, and near peak climo, midmonth could get real interesting in a hurry in the SE. Well, it already is interesting, of course.
 
Yeah, Shane, if people would recall how much different today's runs are vs just a few days ago they'd realize that this is still a very unstable situation meaning opportunities since we're still some 8-9+ days away from potential mischief. With the combo of indices that we have projected, the strong cold near the Great Lakes, and near peak climo, midmonth could get real interesting in a hurry in the SE. Well, it already is interesting, of course.
Agreed it's really not a bad look. Obviously you can nitpick here and there but give me that established vortex over the lakes and I'll take my chances

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^ Further to that, there are a good number of 18Z GEFS members (~1/3 of them) with a near ideal Miller A track for many in the upper SE ~2/15-6 per Levi's site! I think Charlie will like as that's quite a strong signal this far away! A few days ago there was pretty much no storm even showing up for midmonth. Yes cold air in advance would be needed but that could come in due time via the cold coming down further/more quickly or the low slowing down.
 
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Oh, that storm was showing up on the GFS at least outside of one run, but it was cutting off and just sinking south. Right now it cuts off and moves east after stalling for a while.
 
^ Further to that, there are a good number of 18Z GEFS (1/3 or more) members with a near ideal Miller A track for many in the upper SE ~2/15-6 per Levi's site! I think Charlie will like! A few days ago there was pretty much no storm even showing up for midmonth. Yes cold air in advance would be needed but that could come in due time via the cold coming down further/more quickly or the low slowing down.
Holy cow ! yep your right nothing was showing just a few days ago. Need a slower system as you mentioned or a complete phase. Sign me up for this look In mid Feb
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Boy, looking at the GEFS gets me excited. I'm with ya Charlie, I'll take that also all day.
 
Larry I know its in this thread but I'm lazy... what 2 years did the MJO go through P8 at a similar amplitude

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Larry I know its in this thread but I'm lazy... what 2 years did the MJO go through P8 at a similar amplitude

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Long strings (all 6+ days) with similar amp phase 8 in Feb: 1988 strongest. Then 1999. But keep in mind 1999 should be thrown out as an analog due to a +AO/+NAO. Then 1978 and 2006 were similarly strong to each other. Then 2010.

2017 is looking to be about as strong as 1988! 1978 was about as strong but in phase 7 when it was that strong rather than in phase 8.

1988: 2/21-29 http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/mjo/graphics/archive/MJO_phase/198801.phase.90days.gif

1978: 2/7-10 & 2/23-28 http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/mjo/graphics/archive/MJO_phase/197801.phase.90days.gif

2006: 2/4-9 http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/mjo/graphics/archive/MJO_phase/200601.phase.90days.gif

2010: 2/7-13 http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/mjo/graphics/archive/MJO_phase/201001.phase.90days.gif
 
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Am I seeing flurries in North GA late Wednesday/Early Thursday? Meteo star data shows 0.03 of precip with temps in the mid 30s and 850s below 0?
 
Am I seeing flurries in North GA late Wednesday/Early Thursday? Meteo star data shows 0.03 of precip with temps in the mid 30s and 850s below 0?
The GFS does indeed show a small area, but I think it is a one run deal. The NAM says they will be limited to the mountains with maybe one or two making it into non mountain areas.
 
Am I seeing flurries in North GA late Wednesday/Early Thursday? Meteo star data shows 0.03 of precip with temps in the mid 30s and 850s below 0?
There could be a brief period of a few flurries and that's it.

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^Yeah, Bouncy, unfortunately as modeled the cold air isn't established as you implied before the storm moves over. The last several paras runs have had something similar. So, the para has had a string of runs with the low to the south of the operational GFS. The low has been in a near perfect spot for many well inland folks in the SE but none of the runs had the cold air in advance of the storm. My target for KATL to see snow based on historical maps is for them to have a thickness down to 546/850's below 0C. They generally don't need 540. The para has been showing around 552. So nada for now on the para runs. Get it down to 546 and we can talk snowstorm for ATL! Still plenty of time to get colder runs. The low slowing down may be a solution that would work out.
I agree Larry...the para looks amazing.

Look at the trends over the last 4 runs of the Para...the northern stream/PV setting up shop over the lakes, huge change. The para is incredibly close to a phase and I wouldn't be surprised to see that relatively soon given trends. Anytime you start showing me a look like this with a -NAO, sign me up. This is hands down the best look we've seen all winter, even though it's going to count on perfect timing, seldom do we get storms that don't unless it's overrunning.

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I agree Larry...the para looks amazing.

Look at the trends over the last 4 runs of the Para...the northern stream/PV setting up shop over the lakes, huge change. The para is incredibly close to a phase and I wouldn't be surprised to see that relatively soon given trends. Anytime you start showing me a look like this with a -NAO, sign me up. This is hands down the best look we've seen all winter, even though it's going to count on perfect timing, seldom do we get storms that don't unless it's overrunning.

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wow that looks great man . I'm with you 100 percent . Best look all winter hands down

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Trends are going the "right" direction but I wouldn't say this is a great setup as of now. It's honestly just a disconnected shortwave and 50/50 wave. They don't interact plus there is no high pressure to our northwest. It'd take a pretty big change in setup for us to get enough cold air.


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