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Pattern Fab-February 2020 The dark age

KATL has a very good chance to have a 50+ degree averaged DJF, which would place it in the warmest 9 back to 1878-9!

Others that were 50+:

1879-80, 1889-90, 1931-2, 1948-9, 1949-50, 1956-7, 2011-2, 2016-7

Note that there also were 3 very warm winters over a similarly short period of 1948-57 and that there wasn’t another very warm one for another 50 years. Hopefully, that will be the case after the current one.
 
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I'm sorry dude, lol. I guess it's to much for us to ask for a little snow. People who hate snow normally get it all

I can't say I'm surprised though, the Euro showing nothing for days has ALWAYS been a flashing warning sign to me. I've been doing this too long to just write off the Euro like some people
 
I can't say I'm surprised though, the Euro showing nothing for days has ALWAYS been a flashing warning sign to me. I've been doing this too long to just write off the Euro like some people
FWIW it does have some back side snow for you
 
Instead of waiting 10+ days to see if a fantasy storm verefies, we are back to waiting 10 + days to see if we see a LR pattern flip to cling to.
No sense in waiting around. Pre emergents going down with fertilizer. Tired of wishing away 10 days away. Ground temps are warming and we are wishing away winter every 10 days lol. Still believe we can get lucky but honestly losing interest and plows have dust on them in the shop. Onto spring and baseball
 
No sense in waiting around. Pre emergents going down with fertilizer. Tired of wishing away 10 days away. Ground temps are warming and we are wishing away winter every 10 days lol. Still believe we can get lucky but honestly losing interest and plows have dust on them in the shop. Onto spring and baseball
Yeah nascar racing fixing start also with baseball ... starting see signs of us going into a La Niña ... probably going get drier as spring goes along
 
Yeah nascar racing fixing start also with baseball ... starting see signs of us going into a La Niña ... probably going get drier as spring goes along
I never want to experience an El Nino or anything borderline El Nino ever again bring on la nina
 
Instead of waiting 10+ days to see if a fantasy storm verefies, we are back to waiting 10 + days to see if we see a LR pattern flip to cling to.

Until we get close to the end of the very warm favoring teles, which take us through at least 2/16, I don't think we'll even be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It is almost as slam dunk as it can get for warmth in the SE US in the 2nd week of Feb. Even a 3rd grader could predict warmth then. If we are going to have a late long cold period coming up, which I've been thinking for quite awhile has a good chance to occur (consider it a prediction), we may not see even a faint signal for it for still another couple of weeks+. Patience will be needed. It may very well be still be a month away. If we follow the pattern of 1889-90 and 1931-2 (those winters were even warmer), it is still a month away. The earliest I see it is 2/20 and that is likely too early imo.
 
Won’t happen...get ready for a cold March and April. So annoying.


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I’ll take a cold March if we can get it to snow at night. That way sun angle isn’t a issue. Actually we are probably due for a good March snow. Maybe even a April snow. Anyone know the latest GSP had accumulating snow and how much?


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I’ll take a cold March if we can get it to snow at night. That way sun angle isn’t a issue. Actually we are probably due for a good March snow. Maybe even a April snow. Anyone know the latest GSP had accumulating snow and how much?


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GSP: 4/18/1983. ATL had 1"+ on 4/25/1910! So, we still have an eternity to go! Geez, even Hogtown (@pcbjr) has had sleet late in March!
 
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I never want to experience an El Nino or anything borderline El Nino ever again bring on la nina

Yeah El Ninos haven't done well for us lately, mostly all we've gotten from them have been warm spells and cool rains. The Pacific is just too much especially when the Atlantic can't cooperate.
 
I never want to experience an El Nino or anything borderline El Nino ever again bring on la nina
Just because we haven’t gotten lucky with the El Niño’s doesn’t mean we are going to want a La Niña .. you’re basically asking for a southeast ridge all winter long and no transient cold shots
 
Just because we haven’t gotten lucky with the El Niño’s doesn’t mean we are going to want a La Niña .. you’re basically asking for a southeast ridge all winter long and no transient cold shots
Give me the nina weve done well in the last 20 years in cold neutral or nina
 
Just because we haven’t gotten lucky with the El Niño’s doesn’t mean we are going to want a La Niña .. you’re basically asking for a southeast ridge all winter long and no transient cold shots

The La Nina's I remember seemed cold and dry but at least the cold was close by if needed. I could be having a case of revisionist history in my mind perhaps.
 
The La Nina's I remember seemed cold and dry but at least the cold was close by if needed. I could be having a case of revisionist history in my mind perhaps.

Anything is possible in any one winter, of course. But when considering averages, the only decent Nina in terms of average temps and wintry precip has been, not surprisingly a weak one (weaker SER on average most likely).
For those wanting a La Nina pattern, we're about to have a wet version in the 2nd week of Feb with a nice SER/solid -AAM. Same thing we had in mid Jan. I'll pass every time. now if I am in the Midwest and maybe even DFW, it would be different.
 
Just because we haven’t gotten lucky with the El Niño’s doesn’t mean we are going to want a La Niña .. you’re basically asking for a southeast ridge all winter long and no transient cold shots
Niñas are money. Cold with northern energy diving down and phase potential. Seems almost impossible these days to get sufficient cold air with an active southern stream. If it comes, it’s in and out. Nina’s can throw you in the freezer for a prolonged period. Cold first, and Nina’s bring that to the table. Niños don’t
 
80 degrees here lmao and people are arguing about snow potential
Hahah, air temp doesn't mean anything prior to snowfall. Denver had 85 degrees that one time, and they had snow 8 hours later. Yes, Denver is further north, but the point here is that the air temp (past and present) doesn't matter.

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Hahah, air temp doesn't mean anything prior to snowfall. Denver had 85 degrees that one time, and they had snow 8 hours later. Yes, Denver is further north, but the point here is that the air temp (past and present) doesn't matter.

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Oh I know I was just joking the truth is we've had several storms after being in the 70s and near 80 I just think it's funny

Btw we're losing the GEFS had nearly every member snowy last night now more than half have zero

index (11).png
 
Oh I know I was just joking the truth is we've had several storms after being in the 70s and near 80 I just think it's funny

Btw we're losing the GEFS had nearly every member snowy last night now more than half have zero

View attachment 32905


Latest EPS can't be to far from you...50 miles from the 2" line?

Txsnow.gif
 
Oh I know I was just joking the truth is we've had several storms after being in the 70s and near 80 I just think it's funny

Btw we're losing the GEFS had nearly every member snowy last night now more than half have zero

View attachment 32905
I know you know about that; I was meaning that towards the one's that don't know lol, even they're not here on the fourm haha.

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The La Nina's I remember seemed cold and dry but at least the cold was close by if needed. I could be having a case of revisionist history in my mind perhaps.

Based on the actual numbers, the bolded must be a case of revisionist history. Why?

Only 2 of the last 8 and 1 of the last 4 La Ninas were cold at KATL:

- 2017-8: +3
- 2016-7: +7
- 2011-2: +5
- 2010-1: -2
- 2008-9: +2
- 2007-8: +2
- 2005-6: 0
- 2000-1: -2

Then again, only 2 of the last 8 and 1 of the last 4 El Nino's were cold at KATL:

- 2018-9: +4
- 2015-6: +5
- 2014-5: 0
- 2009-10: -5
- 2006-7: +2
- 2004-5: +2
- 2002-3: -2
- 1997-8: +1

So, the problem in recent years imo is not ENSO, but rather the globe! We're getting the double whammy of general GW along with extra warming of the Maritime Continent leading to the MJO being in phases 4 and 5 a larger % of the time than in the past and more of the SER.

- Looking more at the EN/LN numbers above, the last 8 La Ninas averaged +1.9 F whereas the last 8 El Ninos averaged only +0.9 F. So, even recent El Ninos have still averaged colder than recent La Ninas.

- Now, if I go back to 1950, the 23 La Ninas averaged +1.3 F whereas the 25 El Ninos averaged -0.9 F. In terms of S/IP, the 23 La Ninas averaged only 1.4" whereas the 25 El Ninos averaged 2.2". So, when looking at the last 70 years overall, El Ninos have been the clear winner for both S/IP and temps based on KATL.

- OTOH, if I were to look at just the last 8 La Ninas and last 8 El Ninos for SN/IP (much smaller sample), La Nina has been the clear winner with an average of a whopping 2.6" whereas the last 8 El Ninos have averaged only a measly 0.9" even though they were 1.0 F colder on average! So, imo, that is affecting a lot of folks' opinions and swaying them toward La Nina even though they've been warmer as one would expect.

- Now I'll look at the prior (i.e., before these last 8) 15 La Ninas and 17 El Ninos: a totally different story as regards SN/IP. Those 15 La Ninas averaged only a measly 0.8" where those 17 El Ninos averaged a much higher 2.8", which is the kind of thing I'd expect.

My feeling is that SN/IP, which is more random than temperatures, has been higher for La Nina than for El Nino recently mainly due to randomness, especially considering that recent El Ninos have still been 1.0 F colder than recent La Ninas as well as the longer term history of more S/IP on average for El Ninos. We'll see, but my expectation is that near future El Nino vs La Nina S/IP will revert back to the long term mean and favor El Nino. I think we'll know that answer by 2040.
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Main data sources:

https://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=ffc
https://origin.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/ensostuff/ONI_v5.php
 
I would still take a La Niña..
744b1d3204bba1082fe8a228faf06e35.jpg



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2” aka “Transition zone” lol. Sorry Brent I’m laughing with you, not at you

Edit: good trends for my sister in law who lives east of OKC

I've never really been convinced on a big event here in the metro anyway like I've said in other posts the Euro showing nothing has always been a red flag

Sure the GFS maps were prettier but eh never bought there being a foot of snow anywhere nearby (although it did happen in 2010) but our track record and luck lately is meh lol
 
Based on the actual numbers, the bolded must be a case of revisionist history. Why?

Only 2 of the last 8 and 1 of the last 4 La Ninas were cold at KATL:

- 2017-8: +3
- 2016-7: +7
- 2011-2: +5
- 2010-1: -2
- 2008-9: +2
- 2007-8: +2
- 2005-6: 0
- 2000-1: -2

Then again, only 2 of the last 8 and 1 of the last 4 El Nino's were cold at KATL:

- 2018-9: +4
- 2015-6: +5
- 2014-5: 0
- 2009-10: -5
- 2006-7: +2
- 2004-5: +2
- 2002-3: -2
- 1997-8: +1

So, the problem in recent years imo is not ENSO, but rather the globe! We're getting the double whammy of general GW along with extra warming of the Maritime Continent leading to the MJO being in phases 4 and 5 a larger % of the time than in the past and more of the SER.

- Looking more at the EN/LN numbers above, the last 8 La Ninas averaged +1.9 F whereas the last 8 El Ninos averaged only +0.9 F. So, even recent El Ninos have still averaged colder than recent La Ninas.

- Now, if I go back to 1950, the 23 La Ninas averaged +1.3 F whereas the 25 El Ninos averaged -0.9 F. In terms of S/IP, the 23 La Ninas averaged only 1.4" whereas the 25 El Ninos averaged 2.2". So, when looking at the last 70 years overall, El Ninos have been the clear winner for both S/IP and temps based on KATL.

- OTOH, if I were to look at just the last 8 La Ninas and last 8 El Ninos for SN/IP (much smaller sample), La Nina has been the clear winner with an average of a whopping 2.6" whereas the last 8 El Ninos have averaged only a measly 0.9" even though they were 1.0 F colder on average! So, imo, that is affecting a lot of folks' opinions and swaying them toward La Nina even though they've been warmer as one would expect.

- Now I'll look at the prior (i.e., before these last 8) 15 La Ninas and 17 El Ninos: a totally different story as regards SN/IP. Those 15 La Ninas averaged only a measly 0.8" where those 17 El Ninos averaged a much higher 2.8", which is the kind of thing I'd expect.

My feeling is that SN/IP, which is more random than temperatures, has been higher for La Nina than for El Nino recently mainly due to randomness, especially considering that recent El Ninos have still been 1.0 F colder than recent La Ninas as well as the longer term history of more S/IP on average for El Ninos. We'll see, but my expectation is that near future El Nino vs La Nina S/IP will revert back to the long term mean and favor El Nino. I think we'll know that answer by 2040.
--------------------------------------

Main data sources:

https://w2.weather.gov/climate/xmacis.php?wfo=ffc
https://origin.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/ensostuff/ONI_v5.php
This post deserves at least 100 "Likes" ... :cool:
 
Already big cad signal showing up for a sig. winter storm this month on 18z GFS. Pattern supports it IMO as cold is building snowpack to our north. More later from me.
 
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