• Hello, please take a minute to check out our awesome content, contributed by the wonderful members of our community. We hope you'll add your own thoughts and opinions by making a free account!

Pattern December to Remember

Here’s phase 7 & 8 during La Nina’s in December. Not overly cold at all and there is also a 10 day lag here but at least blocking develops and there’s hints on the modeling of blocking and the AO/NAO going negative or at least trending in that direction. We don’t really need to focus on cold, just focus on drivers and teleconnections that lead to cold. But I agree with Allan in that I’m not sure we’ll be locked into cold but to the same point no one knows for sure, but seasonal models haven’t exactly hinted at any long term cold…

View attachment 97621
View attachment 97622

No CFS run has yet shown the SE ever getting sustained solid cold. The coldest I’ve yet seen is about 3 BN for RDU for the period late Dec-mid Jan with as cold as 8 BN over a 7 day period thanks largely to strong wedging tapping into the frigid cold getting to the NE. The warmest have been ~5 AN, like the latest run (0Z). The 0Z overall was one of the warmest up north, too, with near normal overall. It keeps jumping around like it almost always does.

So, the chance for strong cold anomalies is suggested by the many CFS runs to be highest up in the MW to NE in this La Ninaish pattern with the coldest runs having been as cold as 5-6 BN up there over a 3 week period from late Dec til mid Jan and the SE at the very bottom of the cold. That’s what I hope for along with good wedging to tap into that strong cold and allow for the SE to be near to a few degrees BN averaged out for the period late Dec to mid Jan, a much more winterlike pattern and much colder than early to mid Dec. I’d be quite content with that when considering where we are for the first 19 or so days of this month averaged out. That would also support a decent shot at a major icestorm especially in the Carolina CAD areas.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys as promised, you know I’ve been honking Jan.15th or later for our first winter storm E of the mtns for quiet some time. However, I told you I would update this December 12th if it should be sooner or later! I am now going with LATER with a time period of January 25th~ or later. Doesn’t mean winter is over I’m just trying to narrow in on when we may start tracking something of significance (greater than 3” snow or quarter inch ice). My next update will be on Christmas Eve to look at the pattern and models to see if things should be pushed back to February 1st or later. Thanks! ?
I have my doubts
 
Hey guys as promised, you know I’ve been honking Jan.15th or later for our first winter storm E of the mtns for quiet some time. However, I told you I would update this December 12th if it should be sooner or later! I am now going with LATER with a time period of January 25th~ or later. Doesn’t mean winter is over I’m just trying to narrow in on when we may start tracking something of significance (greater than 3” snow or quarter inch ice). My next update will be on Christmas Eve to look at the pattern and models to see if things should be pushed back to February 1st or later. Thanks! ?

Why?
 
What’s your reasoning?
So I’ve looked at the year 2010 forward and how we scored our winter storms and factored in a warming climate. We really ---- the bed and got LUCKY with our little wet spell that slammed into cold air for our “big dogs”. I see what looks like MUCH drier conditions (I know it finally rained yesterday) going forward which will ultimately lower our chances of winter weather compared to recent winters by a significant margin. I do see the same as you guys on entering better phases (teleconnections) at times but I don’t see anything sticking around which will further reduce our time frames to track. I believe we are really gonna have to thread the needle this winter when we get some cooler air and the dividing lines are gonna leave many on the outside looking in. (I’m expecting 2” or less in Charlotte this winter).
 
So I’ve looked at the year 2010 forward and how we scored our winter storms and factored in a warming climate. We really ---- the bed and got LUCKY with our little wet spell that slammed into cold air for our “big dogs”. I see what looks like MUCH drier conditions (I know it finally rained yesterday) going forward which will ultimately lower our chances of winter weather compared to recent winters by a significant margin. I do see the same as you guys on entering better phases (teleconnections) at times but I don’t see anything sticking around which will further reduce our time frames to track. I believe we are really gonna have to thread the needle this winter when we get some cooler air and the dividing lines are gonna leave many on the outside looking in. (I’m expecting 2” or less in Charlotte this winter).
Weren’t we in a drought in early jan 2018 ? And we saw how that went
 
Weren’t we in a drought in early jan 2018 ? And we saw how that went
Good point. Snowy events are usually based on good patterns. While I still don’t want to get excited because I don’t see any significant signals coming for the models yet. I think that there is enough hope that I wouldn’t go as far to say that we don’t have a chance until February.
 
Good point. Snowy events are usually based on good patterns. While I still don’t want to get excited because I don’t see any significant signals coming for the models yet. I think that there is enough hope that I wouldn’t go as far to say that we don’t have a chance until February.
I feel more confident about this winter than I did last winter. No real reason why other than I think a lot of us are due.
 
Weren’t we in a drought in early jan 2018 ? And we saw how that went
Yes mod drought then but this year is a severe drought and early December. Anyway, of course I hope I’m wrong I’m just giving what I think whether people wanna hear it or not.
 
I feel more confident about this winter than I did last winter. No real reason why other than I think a lot of us are due.
I haven’t seen significant snow in so long that I’m not holding my breath as it may be too good to be true. I’m afraid that this pattern will pull the rug out from under us, and the -PNA will screw us all over. I’ve been telling myself that we’ll se models improve, but until we actually see some significant fantasy snow start to show up, I’m not confident.
 
I haven’t seen significant snow in so long that I’m not holding my breath as it may be too good to be true. I’m afraid that this pattern will pull the rug out from under us, and the -PNA will screw us all over. I’ve been telling myself that we’ll se models improve, but until we actually see some significant fantasy snow start to show up, I’m not confident.
We are in the lower 48. No reason to be confident. Only Hawaii and Alaska score now. :)
 
Snow last year and prob gonna be close to this again IMO. With regards to ice potential, the areas in darker blues on the map are the favored areas of mixing this winter. I can see it being more wintery mix over all snow for sure with some of the CAD setups! I know everyone hopes for a hell-merry Charlotte to Raleigh (that one big dog) but as we dig our graves deeper in the new world I think it’s a little foolish to forecast such weenie scenarios every winter. D9476C35-C5D3-4963-A4D7-C0DF1B0E84A6.jpeg
 
I haven’t seen significant snow in so long that I’m not holding my breath as it may be too good to be true. I’m afraid that this pattern will pull the rug out from under us, and the -PNA will screw us all over. I’ve been telling myself that we’ll se models improve, but until we actually see some significant fantasy snow start to show up, I’m not confident.
We have Brad P archive all the fantasy snow for us in a folder. 30”+ in Georgia already this winter. Your area up to 20”+ so far this winter from 5 events. Does not build confidence or anything.
 
We have Brad P archive all the fantasy snow for us in a folder. 30”+ in Georgia already this winter. Your area up to 20”+ so far this winter from 5 events. Does not build confidence or anything.
I also archive the fantasy storms into a folders. So far this is the most minimal amount of events I’ve seen over the past three years I’ve been tracking it.

 
Something makes me believe the Gfs dumps too much out west .. it’s been biased in that idea for a few weeks now
I don’t think it’s been biased with westward dumping it’s been correct with it, I think it’s been biased with faster/very progressive northern stream energy on top of the ridge that’s slows down as we get closer
 
It’s not ideal and I don’t like the strength of the -PNA at all but with the -NAO block in place and attendant SE Canada vortex you can easily get a Miller B/CAD setup View attachment 97643
That’s the famous reverse ? pattern! It leads to this:15C8EA4B-4A9A-4607-8F37-814227C1F981.png
 
I don’t think it’s been biased with westward dumping it’s been correct with it, I think it’s been biased with faster/very progressive northern stream energy on top of the ridge that’s slows down as we get closer
That was my thoughts too. I always remember it being ridge happy in the west then flattening it as we get closer.

The general consensus on here is we'll have a window between the end of December and mid January. I agree with that for CAD areas but that's about it. I don't think areas from Birmingham, Atlanta over to CAE are going to be pleased come mid January. The EPO ridge is in the wrong place and the -PNA will persist. What will save CAD regions maybe is the -NAO and legit cold in the NE. I suppose it's possible to get a CAD strong enough to maybe get areas close to CAE and ATL in on action buy I wouldn't bet on it. Time will tell.
 
I always had a feeling the week of Christmas was to early imo, the pieces are there on top but we need to have some time to shake up what we got going on down here View attachment 97646
Something tells me the Gfs is just not seeing something properly down the road at this range .. going to take a few more days to get it settled out.. all that blocking and -NAO with a ridge under it like that? I don’t think so
 
Something tells me the Gfs is just not seeing something properly down the road at this range .. going to take a few more days to get it settled out.. all that blocking and -NAO with a ridge under it like that? I don’t think so
Correct, the GFS isn't quite there just yet in terms of the winter storm prediction. Taking a look at the 12z GEFS members, several of them show overrunning along the boundary while some of them even show a low developing (on later frames) that tracks east and cold enough air at the surface from CAD to produce ice in the CAD prone areas.
869efebd9733db7befdaa22e3b91ece0.jpg
 
12Z GEFS is even colder in the SE 12/19-20 with a strong wedge for the main CAD areas. It isn’t necessarily suggesting major ZR threat, but it is suggesting a much colder couple of days for those areas to get them into the Christmas spirit and to make those longing for cold happy with possibly some ZR:

ED8F476C-06B9-44B2-9E76-7D832A89113C.png
 
12Z GEFS is even colder in the SE 12/19-20 with a strong wedge for the main CAD areas. It isn’t necessarily suggesting major ZR threat, but it is suggesting a much colder couple of days for those areas to get them into the Christmas spirit and to make those longing for cold happy with possibly some ZR:

View attachment 97653
Hopefully setting all of us up for greater things to come winterwise in January. Maybe some of us can still get a "White Epiphany" (January 6). ;)
 
12Z GEFS is even colder in the SE 12/19-20 with a strong wedge for the main CAD areas. It isn’t necessarily suggesting major ZR threat, but it is suggesting a much colder couple of days for those areas to get them into the Christmas spirit and to make those longing for cold happy with possibly some ZR:

View attachment 97653
Quite a contrast between Orlando and Augusta.
 
What’s up with the gfs and GEFS not agreeing with each other all the time?
 
Quite a contrast between Orlando and Augusta.

That’s what a classic Carolina-N GA wedge often does.

Meanwhile, folks, check out the contrast at H5 between the flat 12Z GFS and the much more impressive/not flat 12Z GEFS:

12Z GFS says cold doesn’t come far south for awhile:

BF04D318-0C93-44EB-AF81-D876633C4C4C.png

In contrast, 12Z GEFS says the GFS is too flat and thus looks much better with the best look for a GEFS yet for this time:

FF1A73DC-0491-4242-A1DD-6EAADBD8895E.png
 
Yeah by that timeframe I think we’re approaching a torch lmao, probably when the MJO goes to crap and La Niña influenced SER starts kicking into high gear
Exactly. To me if locations outside the mountains are going to get significant winter weather this year, it going to have to happen before the end of January….even if the LaNina is weakening by February it’s going to at several months to see the full effect of it. Climo says the SER should really start pumping in February and we see an early spring…hopefully things come together for most of us to see a good snowfall when the window opens for it
 
Back
Top