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Pattern December Discussion

Tarheel1 link said:
So much for " front loaded" looking like balmy Christmas and hoping for a better pattern and blocking heading into January!? #EXCITED

The jury is still out as to how long the SE ridge dominated pattern would last. Looking at past neutral negative or weak La Niña winters with a SE ridge dominated December, it hasn't always persisted through the entire winter. More often than not, it hasn't. If the rest of winter turns out like 1924-5, the rest of winter would turn out pretty lame for most in the SE US. However, on the other extreme, if it were to turn out like 1961-2 or 2013-4, Jan and/or Feb would provide a good dose of winter. Therefore, it would be ridiculously premature to call winter over even if Dec were to end up uneventful. By the way, ATL on average has received only 15% of its seasonal SN/IP in Dec over the last 100 years with only 18 of these 100 Decembers having any measurable SN/IP.

In terms of major ZR's/sleets since 1879, they've had only three major ones before the last week of Dec vs more than 30 of them happening anytime from around Christmas through late March. A major ZR and/or sleet there and nearby is imo the biggest threat this winter due to it being a neutral negative (NN) ENSO. The two NN's since 1895 that I could find with a SE ridge dominated Dec were 1961-2 and 2013-4. Both produced a major ATL ZR later in winter (along with generous SN and/or IP). There have been many other NN winters with a major ZR and/or sleet.

For more details I posted about the potential for Jan+, go to the "Winter Discussion" thread and see them there, if interested.
 
Looks like the Canadian has come back towards a more icy solution for some.
 
GaWx link said:
[quote author=Tarheel1 link=topic=2.msg1303#msg1303 date=1481466497]
So much for " front loaded" looking like balmy Christmas and hoping for a better pattern and blocking heading into January!? #EXCITED

The jury is still out as to how long the SE ridge dominated pattern would last. Looking at past neutral negative or weak La Niña winters with a SE ridge dominated December, it hasn't always persisted through the entire winter. More often than not, it hasn't. If the rest of winter turns out like 1924-5, the rest of winter would turn out pretty lame for most in the SE US. However, on the other extreme, if it were to turn out like 1961-2 or 2013-4, Jan and/or Feb would provide a good dose of winter. Therefore, it would be ridiculously premature to call winter over even if Dec were to end up uneventful. By the way, ATL on average has received only 15% of its seasonal SN/IP in Dec over the last 100 years with only 18 of these 100 Decembers having any measurable SN/IP.

In terms of major ZR's/sleets since 1879, they've had only three major ones before the last week of Dec vs more than 30 of them happening anytime from around Christmas through late March. A major ZR and/or sleet there and nearby is imo the biggest threat this winter due to it being a neutral negative (NN) ENSO. The two NN's since 1895 that I could find with a SE ridge dominated Dec were 1961-2 and 2013-4. Both produced a major ATL ZR later in winter (along with generous SN and/or IP). There have been many other NN winters with a major ZR and/or sleet.

For more details I posted about the potential for Jan+, go to the "Winter Discussion" thread and see them there, if interested.
[/quote]

Thanks Larry for the info. As always good stuff.


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How accurate is the gfs par?. It's been consistently showing ice for my area next weekend
 
JLL1973 link said:
How accurate is the gfs par?. It's been consistently showing ice for my area next weekend

You're right it has been consistent but it appears to not have any other model support. Here's the 6Z GFS-Par clown map...
gfsp_asnow_us_32.png
 
Yes I was looking at that clown map earlier unfortunately it's on an island all by itself
 
Crappy crappy, crappy,crappy pattern. Hopefully this crappy pattern will lead us to a good Jan, Feb
 
Though they could still be wrong and therefore change quickly (note the recent volatility of ensemble means), the major ensemble means are now all showing solid warmer than normal in the 11-15 after a warming transition in the 6-10. This agrees with what the Thursday Euro weeklies' week #3 showed though a bit sooner. So, I think it would be a good idea for serenity purposes to just go ahead and accept what at least appears to be coming as we get to around 12/20. Once that is accepted, you can focus on how long that will last (would it likely be just for a week or so or would it be longer) and on what have over the last 100+ years been much better months for the SE for wintry precip prospects, Jan and Feb. Even Mar has been better than Dec in some areas over the last few decades. Since when do winter prospects revolve around Dec? For example, ATL has not had a major SN or IP in Dec since 1917!!
 
NorthGaWinter link said:
Euro ice storm per the other forum

The 12Z Euro is out only to 48 hours at most anywhere. That must be based on an earlier run.
 
GaWx link said:
Though they could still be wrong and therefore change quickly (note the recent volatility of ensemble means), the major ensemble means are now all showing solid warmer than normal in the 11-15 after a warming transition in the 6-10. This agrees with what the Thursday Euro weeklies' week #3 showed though a bit sooner. So, I think it would be a good idea for serenity purposes to just go ahead and accept what at least appears to be coming as we get to around 12/20. Once that is accepted, you can focus on how long that will last (would it likely be just for a week or so or would it be longer) and on what have over the last 100+ years been much better months for the SE for wintry precip prospects, Jan and Feb. Even Mar has been better than Dec in some areas over the last few decades. Since when do winter prospects revolve around Dec? For example, ATL has not had a major SN or IP in Dec since 1917!!
Yeah, it's been below normal for a bit now in the south, we know we don't live in ND, and can't have wall to wall cold, so a relax/reload period has to happen, so maybe we can score in January!?
 
I don't believe them either but there's three good posters saying it's today's 12z
 
BIG FROSTY link said:
Free 7 day trial

http://eurowx.com

Hers's where they getting it.

I just talked to a pro met. He confirmed that it is not possible that they're talking about today's 12Z Euro, which is only out to hour 96. That has to be based on an older run.
 
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