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Misc All Things Religious

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thundersnow said:
It would be neither here nor there. If God created other beings elsewhere on other planets, all good. No concerns about that one way or the other. Until such life is found, that's all speculation anyway.
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So how old is the earth? What is your explanation for our far distance humanoid habitants on the planet like neanderthal? Did the biblical god create them as well and just improved upon his chosen people with us? Also curious as to why you think we all look different? I ask because all religions seem to have an "created in his image" portion of their dogma and god(s) and/or their holy teacher or messiah always looks like the culture involved
 
Sandbar said:
So how old is the earth? What is your explanation for our far distance humanoid habitants on the planet like neanderthal? Did the biblical god create them as well and just improved upon his chosen people with us? Also curious as to why you think we all look different? I ask because all religions seem to have an "created in his image" portion of their dogma and god(s) and/or their holy teacher or messiah always looks like the culture involved
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You have to understand that there are varying perspectives about this. There are "New Earth" versus "Old Earth" creationist perspectives. And, I suspect not even everyone here would all be on the same page with that. God was under no obligation to explain the finer details and give an exhaustive, comprehensive explanation of how He did it or everything that is "out there" in our modern, scientific 21st Century terms to people who lived thousands of years ago in Ancient Near-Eastern cultures. He revealed to them (and to us) only what they needed to know, apparently.

My position is- I do not really "know" how old the earth is. I know what modern science suggests about it. And, I also know the language and style of describing creation in the Hebrew scriptures. What's more- it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other how old the earth is. If God created everything more recently but somehow "snapshotted" it with a primordial history that science picks up on- fine. If the universe is in reality as old as what scientific theories propose, but God expressed it in terms the ancient Hebrews could understand without explaining every nuance in our modern Western scientific terminology, also fine. I recently read a book entitled, The Lost World of Genesis One, by John Walton. Interesting read on that topic.
 
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thundersnow said:
You have to understand that there are varying perspectives about this. There are "New Earth" versus "Old Earth" creationist perspectives. And, I suspect not even everyone here would all be on the same page with that. God was under no obligation to explain the finer details and give an exhaustive, comprehensive explanation of how He did it or everything that is "out there" in our modern, scientific 21st Century terms to people who lived thousands of years ago in Ancient Near-Eastern cultures. He revealed to them (and to us) only what they needed to know, apparently.

My position is- I do not really "know" how old the earth is. I know what modern science suggests about it. And, I also know the language and style of describing creation in the Hebrew scriptures. What's more- it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other how old the earth is. If God created everything more recently but somehow "snapshotted" it with a primordial history that science picks up on- fine. If the universe is in reality as old as what scientific theories propose, but God expressed it in terms the ancient Hebrews could understand without explaining every nuance in our modern Western scientific terminology, also fine. I recently read a book entitled, The Lost World of Genesis One, by John Walton. Interesting read on that topic.
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I dont think there is any question the earth is billions of years old. I also don't think there is any question that cavemen existed as we have found them. I would think that if the god in the bible created it all that means he created dinosaurs too along with cavemen but why wait until a few thousand years ago to pop up and say "Here I am chosen ones"
 
Why do some people wait until they're in their late 30s to have kids? Why not have them at 16 instead of waiting until 38 to pop up and say "Here I am little baby"
 
Rain Cold said:
Why do some people wait until they're in their late 30s to have kids? Why not have them at 16 instead of waiting until 38 to pop up and say "Here I am little baby"
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I guess that proves parents don't exist.
 
Rain Cold said:
Why do some people wait until they're in their late 30s to have kids? Why not have them at 16 instead of waiting until 38 to pop up and say "Here I am little baby"
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What a childish answer. I expected more out of you bro but I get it......
 
The word Elohim (god) occurs 2,500 times in the hebrew bible. It somehow became both plural and singular out of thin air according to whomever is doing the interpretation. This is just one example that gives me pause with something translated mostly by word of mouth

The word elohim or 'elohiym (ʼĕlôhîym) is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deities" or various other words in Biblical Hebrew. In Hebrew, the ending -im normally indicates a masculine plural

If you do further research you will also find Yahwhe (also god) listed along with about another dozen names for god which makes it even more confusing to people trying to develop a loving relationship with him. I have pointed out of course that he comes across as a hateful dictator who despises humans more than loving them in the old testament. This is probably who Jesus came to free his followers from. It's actually easy to see if you take a step back and open your mind to other possibilities
 
Sandbar said:
The word Elohim (god) occurs 2,500 times in the hebrew bible. It somehow became both plural and singular out of thin air according to whomever is doing the interpretation. This is just one example that gives me pause with something translated mostly by word of mouth

The word elohim or 'elohiym (ʼĕlôhîym) is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deities" or various other words in Biblical Hebrew. In Hebrew, the ending -im normally indicates a masculine plural

If you do further research you will also find Yahwhe (also god) listed along with about another dozen names for god which makes it even more confusing to people trying to develop a loving relationship with him. I have pointed out of course that he comes across as a hateful dictator who despises humans more than loving them in the old testament. This is probably who Jesus came to free his followers from. It's actually easy to see if you take a step back and open your mind to other possibilities
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The Hebrew language works much differently from English and you can’t simply say because Elohim is plural it should be translated as “gods”. The verbs or adjectives attached to Elohim in passages that refer to God are singular. In the Hebrew language it is the verbs or adjectives that define if a word should be translated as singular or plural. Here’s an excerpt from a Hebrew scholar (Paul J. Kissling, Genesis, Volume 1, p. 83) addressing this very question in Genesis 1.

“The word for "God" here and throughout Genesis 1:1-2:4 is the Hebrew word אֱלֹהִים (ʾĕlōhîm). This is not a personal name like Yahweh, but the generic Hebrew word for God. Although the form appears to be plural (masculine nouns in Hebrew normally form their plurals by adding im) it is usually used with a singular verb or adjective (as throughout this chapter). The plural is probably a plural of majesty or intensification. ... Often in the history of Christian interpretation of the noun ʾĕlōhîm there has been an attempt by those not thoroughly conversant with Hebrew to argue that the plural form of this word implies a plurality in the godhead. ... Unfortunately the grammatical form of a word in Hebrew does not necessarily tell us anything about whether the word should be understood in English as a singular or a plural.”
 
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Sandbar said:
The word Elohim (god) occurs 2,500 times in the hebrew bible. It somehow became both plural and singular out of thin air according to whomever is doing the interpretation. This is just one example that gives me pause with something translated mostly by word of mouth

The word elohim or 'elohiym (ʼĕlôhîym) is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deities" or various other words in Biblical Hebrew. In Hebrew, the ending -im normally indicates a masculine plural

If you do further research you will also find Yahwhe (also god) listed along with about another dozen names for god which makes it even more confusing to people trying to develop a loving relationship with him. I have pointed out of course that he comes across as a hateful dictator who despises humans more than loving them in the old testament. This is probably who Jesus came to free his followers from. It's actually easy to see if you take a step back and open your mind to other possibilities
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While the term "elohim" can be either singular or plural, the verbs that go with it in context are either singular or plural. If elohim is paired with a singular verb, then it is in reference to the God as a singular entity. If the verb is plural, it's more properly "gods" or "heavenly beings." Elohim can be in reference not only to God or gods, but also angelic beings in the heavenly realm or the heavenly host. This all depends on context. Christian Scholars such as Dr. Michael Heiser have done a lot of work in this area. He wrote a book on this entitled The Unseen Realm. It deals with the "divine council" or the court of YHWH in the heavenly realm, which includes angelic beings or "sons of God." But, others have done studies on this at length. This is an involved topic. YHWH is the divine name of God Most High (the "I AM").
 
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Sandbar said:
What a childish answer. I expected more out of you bro but I get it......
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It is literally you argument. It's not childish. It's just lacking rationality.
 
thundersnow said:
While the term "elohim" can be either singular or plural, the verbs that go with it in context are either singular or plural. If elohim is paired with a singular verb, then it is in reference to the God as a singular entity. If the verb is plural, it's more properly "gods" or "heavenly beings." Elohim can be in reference not only to God or gods, but also angelic beings in the heavenly realm or the heavenly host. This all depends on context. Christian Scholars such as Dr. Michael Heiser have done a lot of work in this area. He wrote a book on this entitled The Unseen Realm. It deals with the "divine council" or the court of YHWH in the heavenly realm, which includes angelic beings or "sons of God." But, others have done studies on this at length. This is an involved topic. YHWH is the divine name of God Most High (the "I AM").
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The Bible is all over the place with this leaving the interpretation to the reader. The fact that so many scholars are at odds points to inconsistencies which shouldn't be in a text considered by it's followers as holy. I wouldn't expect the one and only God to have a dozen names but that tends to happen when singular gets confused with plural during a long translation from Hebrew to Greek to English
 
Rain Cold said:
It is literally you argument. It's not childish. It's just lacking rationality.
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Maybe it would be easier to make me understand why God created dinosaurs, wiped them out, created caveman, wiped them out, created more humans and wiped them out while settling on his chosen people before disappearing from our life with a promise of coming back to send half of us to hell.....all because he loves us
 
None of us can force you to believe it. By the same token, you should not expect people of faith to be talked out of it by mere human reasoning.
 
thundersnow said:
None of us can force you to believe it. By the same token, you should not expect people of faith to be talked out of it by mere human reasoning.
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Would never dream of asking you to. Like I said I've been on your path for 40 years I just saw the light and it changed me spiritually. I hate that it pains people to hear someone believes in a creator but doesn't subscribe to dogma. I never understood it until I was on this side of it
 
Sandbar said:
Would never dream of asking you to. Like I said I've been on your path for 40 years I just saw the light and it changed me spiritually. I hate that it pains people to hear someone believes in a creator but doesn't subscribe to dogma. I never understood it until I was on this side of it
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I’m not sure that you’ve picked up on it really- but, there’s a lot to Christian thought that is not bound by denominational dogma today. Many of us are on a journey to get deeper in touch with the original worldview of the Bible.

Some of us may not exactly fit your box of assumptions or experience in life, regardless of your 40 years, 80, 100 years, whatever.
 
thundersnow said:
I’m not sure that you’ve picked up on it really- but, there’s a lot to Christian thought that is not bound by denominational dogma today. Many of us are on a journey to get deeper in touch with the original worldview of the Bible.

Some of us may not exactly fit your box of assumptions or experience in life, regardless of your 40 years, 80, 100 years, whatever.
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Some denominations are dead no wonder some people think what they do.
 
Sandbar said:
Maybe it would be easier to make me understand why God created dinosaurs, wiped them out, created caveman, wiped them out, created more humans and wiped them out while settling on his chosen people before disappearing from our life with a promise of coming back to send half of us to hell.....all because he loves us
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You could walk outside, along with everyone in your neighborhood, and see Jesus coming out of the clouds with angels all around and trumpets blowing with your own eyes, and you would attribute it to something silly like mass hallucination or a dream or some other thing. There's nothing anyone can tell you to empirically prove the Bible. You have already made up your mind. That's fine. It's completely your choice. There's nothing anyone can say here that's going to change that. You are free to believe what you want to believe. I mean that with all sincerity and respect. But if you're going to use irrational ideas on which to base your belief, it's fair game to point it out, just like you like to point out that Christians take everything on "faith" all the time.
 
Rain Cold said:
You could walk outside, along with everyone in your neighborhood, and see Jesus coming out of the clouds with angels all around and trumpets blowing with your own eyes, and you would attribute it to something silly like mass hallucination or a dream or some other thing. There's nothing anyone can tell you to empirically prove the Bible. You have already made up your mind. That's fine. It's completely your choice. There's nothing anyone can say here that's going to change that. You are free to believe what you want to believe. I mean that with all sincerity and respect. But if you're going to use irrational ideas on which to base your belief, it's fair game to point it out, just like you like to point out that Christians take everything on "faith" all the time.
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Anything outside of your safe box of labels is irrational to you. That's why you are brainwashed bro. Bought and paid for when you could be roaming free my man.....
 
Bham 99 said:
Some denominations are dead no wonder some people think what they do.
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Still the same book. If it's the word of God should only be one denomination for that one God. Instead you have no telling how many bible versions to go with umpteen denominations.
 
Sandbar said:
Still the same book. If it's the word of God should only be one denomination for that one God. Instead you have no telling how many bible versions to go with umpteen denominations.
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Yeah but there's some denominations that don't preach the whole book. The part of the book about the power given to you as a Christian to overcome things is not mentioned in some denominations. Some denominations just pat you on the head and welcome you to the social club but no inner change ever occurs. Some denominations just give you a list of do's and don'ts and threaten to kick you out if you don't participate. None of that equals what Christ did for us.
 
Sandbar said:
Anything outside of your safe box of labels is irrational to you. That's why you are brainwashed bro. Bought and paid for when you could be roaming free my man.....
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That's really not true. If you are going to use the following "logic":

"Why did God wait until 6000 years ago to pop out and say hello" in order to try and prove anything about his existence or purpose, then you have to agree that a person waiting until 38 to have a child instead of having one at 16 offers no proof that they actually had the child. I think such an argument is silly, but it is the argument you made for some reason.
 
Bham 99 said:
Yeah but there's some denominations that don't preach the whole book. The part of the book about the power given to you as a Christian to overcome things is not mentioned in some denominations. Some denominations just pat you on the head and welcome you to the social club but no inner change ever occurs. Some denominations just give you a list of do's and don'ts and threaten to kick you out if you don't participate. None of that equals what Christ did for us.
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That last sentence I agree with
 
Rain Cold said:
That's really not true. If you are going to use the following "logic":

"Why did God wait until 6000 years ago to pop out and say hello" in order to try and prove anything about his existence or purpose, then you have to agree that a person waiting until 38 to have a child instead of having one at 16 offers no proof that they actually had the child. I think such an argument is silly, but it is the argument you made for some reason.
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Well does it make sense to you? Why dinosaurs and wipe them out, create caveman and wipe them out, create homo sapiens and wipe a bunch of them out now he promises to come back and wipe half of us out who didn't choose right. An ignorant comparison is comparing a human waiting to have kids to the creator of it all. You can't give me an intelligent answer because there isn't one. You can't explain how we went from being hunter gatherers to inventing math and pyramids in the snap of a finger. Go read the book of Enoch. There is a reason why his works were taken out of the Bible. If you read it with an open mind you will find out you are a science project
 
Sandbar said:
Well does it make sense to you? Why dinosaurs and wipe them out, create caveman and wipe them out, create homo sapiens and wipe a bunch of them out now he promises to come back and wipe half of us out who didn't choose right. An ignorant comparison is comparing a human waiting to have kids to the creator of it all. You can't give me an intelligent answer because there isn't one. You can't explain how we went from being hunter gatherers to inventing math and pyramids in the snap of a finger. Go read the book of Enoch. There is a reason why his works were taken out of the Bible. If you read it with an open mind you will find out you are a science project
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You know what's a more ridiculous notion to me? It's to require an explanation for everything in order to believe something is the way it is. There are many things in life that we accept as real even though we don't fully understand them. But somehow, that paradigm magically doesn't apply when it comes to God and the Bible.

I will tell you why that is: It's because we don't want to submit our will to a higher authority or be accountable for anything. It's really that simple. One can couch it with all kinds of seemingly intellectual questioning like, "well why did this happen?" "Or why is it this way?" Or whatever. But all of that is nonsense at the end of the day. The heart of matter is the desire to do what we want when we want, submitting to no one and receiving absolution for whatever we choose to do.
 
This thread turned out worse than the political one.
 
Rain Cold said:
You know what's a more ridiculous notion to me? It's to require an explanation for everything in order to believe something is the way it is. There are many things in life that we accept as real even though we don't fully understand them. But somehow, that paradigm magically doesn't apply when it comes to God and the Bible.

I will tell you why that is: It's because we don't want to submit our will to a higher authority or be accountable for anything. It's really that simple. One can couch it with all kinds of seemingly intellectual questioning like, "well why did this happen?" "Or why is it this way?" Or whatever. But all of that is nonsense at the end of the day. The heart of matter is the desire to do what we want when we want, submitting to no one and receiving absolution for whatever we choose to do.
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Ok so what about people who will never have access to the bible or the torah or the quran or any other holy book? Im sure the isolated people of the world worship a god or gods in some way. They don't have a holy book to guide them they just live. Are these people not children of god as well? It's hard for people to understand why christians think they are special or chose. That is smitten with nothing but arrogance. You can believe whatever you desire but why are you right and everybody else wrong? There is absolutely no room for differing opinions when it comes to christians, their religion and their holy book. Non whatsoever. You have to win which means somebody has to lose and you are ok with that because a book tells you that's the way to think. If I have freewill I shouldn't have to submit to anybody or anything whether it created me or not. That is not love my friend it's nothing but fear
 
Sandbar said:
Why? Is it me that's the problem? If it is I will leave the thread no worries
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Sandbar, I do not believe you are the problem. I do believe the way you are making some of your points is very ofputting to some of us, Christians. You have stated what you believe and how and why you came to believe it. Fine, and we will probably never change your view. The issue is you then basically call us fools, for believing a fairy tail, make jest of Jesus, call us brainwashed, and on and on. I have not seen anyone make disparaging remarks about your methods of achieving your current beliefs. I choose to believe Jesus is the true Mesiah whose Gospel message is Love God/Jesus and love others. Faith, Hope and Love... the greates of these is love. And it that light, I love you brother.
 
Sandbar is right, crazy religious people kill…. Just look at Gaza … a coalition of Christian’s and Zionist Jews got together and slaughtered 100k Gazans to hasten the coming of Jesus Christ … I mean Christian’s are willing to slaughter other Christian’s to bring back Christ lol! Sand bar you a g dawg! There has been no greater tyranny on earth than the tyranny of religious zealots of all kinds of faith… crazy crazy people
 
LickWx said:
Sandbar is right, crazy religious people kill…. Just look at Gaza … a coalition of Christian’s and Zionist Jews got together and slaughtered 100k Gazans to hasten the coming of Jesus Christ … I mean Christian’s are willing to slaughter other Christian’s to bring back Christ lol! Sand bar you a g dawg! There has been no greater tyranny on earth than the tyranny of religious zealots of all kinds of faith… crazy crazy people
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I can't believe you have the gall to type that but I'm not getting into that on here or this thread will be gone too
 
Sandbar said:
I can't believe you have the gall to type that but I'm not getting into that on here or this thread will be gone too
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What? It falls under what you are arguing 110% … I mean now I’m wondering if you even believe what you do believe because it doesn’t sound like it… you said religion causes war and here you go an entire war inspired by religion and you are mad I brought it up?
 
isha.sadhguru.org

Spirituality vs Religion

Is there a difference between spirituality and religion? If they are different, are they in conflict? Sadhguru clarifies that every religion was once a spiritual process. Then what happened to turn spirituality into religion? Read to find out.
isha.sadhguru.org isha.sadhguru.org
 
LickWx said:
What? It falls under what you are arguing 110% … I mean now I’m wondering if you even believe what you do believe because it doesn’t sound like it… you said religion causes war and here you go an entire war inspired by religion and you are mad I brought it up?
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Don't be stupid man. It's Muslims and Jews killing each other just like old times. It never ends
 
Sandbar said:
Ok so what about people who will never have access to the bible or the torah or the quran or any other holy book? Im sure the isolated people of the world worship a god or gods in some way. They don't have a holy book to guide them they just live. Are these people not children of god as well? It's hard for people to understand why christians think they are special or chose. That is smitten with nothing but arrogance. You can believe whatever you desire but why are you right and everybody else wrong? There is absolutely no room for differing opinions when it comes to christians, their religion and their holy book. Non whatsoever. You have to win which means somebody has to lose and you are ok with that because a book tells you that's the way to think. If I have freewill I shouldn't have to submit to anybody or anything whether it created me or not. That is not love my friend it's nothing but fear
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Your last few sentences is the part Christians always avoid answering or addressing, the elephant in the room if you will. You can be the best human on the planet but if you do not get "saved" the punishment it literally eternity in hell.....its preposterous.
 
Downeastnc said:
Your last few sentences is the part Christians always avoid answering or addressing, the elephant in the room if you will. You can be the best human on the planet but if you do not get "saved" the punishment it literally eternity in hell.....its preposterous.
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Huh? It’s extremely easy to address; what is good? Crazy how we laugh at those who give participation trophies out to the losers and adore the absolute champions, but then tell God “how dare you do that!”
 
Arcc said:
Huh? It’s extremely easy to address; what is good? Crazy how we laugh at those who give participation trophies out to the losers and adore the absolute champions, but then tell God “how dare you do that!”
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How dare god do what? Punish me for not believing in him? So you can be as horrible a person as you want to be but as long as you declare your belief in god and ask it for forgiveness and mean it before you die you go to heaven. If however you live a good life and do good things and never believe in god you go to hell.....god does not actually care if you live a good life or do good things....as long as in the end you seek redemption and forgiveness from it for that evil you did.
 
Downeastnc said:
How dare god do what? Punish me for not believing in him? So you can be as horrible a person as you want to be but as long as you declare your belief in god and ask it for forgiveness and mean it before you die you go to heaven. If however you live a good life and do good things and never believe in god you go to hell.....god does not actually care if you live a good life or do good things....as long as in the end you seek redemption and forgiveness from it for that evil you did.
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Good? Horrible? What is that? Is good the Muslim who lives under his strict law? Is evil the American who lives in complete excess? Is a good person someone who lives under the threat of “good” western laws? Or is horrible that same American who has everything he could ever dream, yet lies on his resume to get that promotion over some else or cuts off that car on the way to work almost killing someone over a minute or two? What is that “good” life?

God doesn’t send someone to hell, he allows us to go to the dump where we belong.
 
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