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Misc All Things Religious

GaWx said:
i just came in from an evening sitting outside relaxing, observing the birds flying near and just after sunset, and listening to the sounds of summer near the peaceful salt marsh (including popping sounds of shellfish, crickets, frogs, and katydids) with a few towering cumulus near the horizon amongst other clouds amidst a gentle breeze. I feel that the chances of there being no supreme creator are lower than the chance I'll run for President. This cannot all be random.
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First, thanks for sharing your belief with such a vivid detail of your day. I love those kind of posts cause I love watching the different cloud formations in the Florida sky. During the day, I alternate between watching the skies on my balcony facing west, and my lake-view patio with a view towards the east. Anyway, let's get to your statement about all this absolutely not being random. I disagree.

Randomness exists in the origins of Earth and humanity whether or not you believe in the existence of God or not. The first line in Genesis states that “In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.” You don’t think that’s just as random as any other explanation? Once we get past this starting point, the manner in which the clouds form and glide, or strong hurricanes tornadoes form to cause loss of life and property, is both random and fairly predictable/orderly.

While I believe in God, I’ve adopted space in my mind for a world in which both a God and no God exists, and I appreciate the concepts, discourse and inventiveness of looking at different realities. I’ve accepted the fact that I will succumb to hypocrisy, as I believe there are certain times when humankind must stray from strict adherence to one set of beliefs and principles. As I demonstrated in my post about adultery, there are times when both Yahweh and Jesus abstained from the strictly mandated death sentencing of adulterers. That was both random and a fairly predictable/orderly.
 
Don't know who is interested but here is very good video of Vince Vitale speaking. He worked closely with the late, great Ravi Zacharias, and like him, was an atheist in early life. He speaks briefly to many of the questions above about odds of life by chance, did the universe have a beginning, objective morality vs absolute, and other topics. Definitely worth a listen for everyone in this thread.

 
Here is a montage of Ravi answering different questions from different speaking engagements and times. A couple are repetitive early on but there are a lot of subjects he speaks on including subjective/objective morality, problem of evil, God's view of women, abortion, homosexuality, war, children not old enough to hear the Gospel, and reincarnation. Very worth your time.

 
Downeastnc said:
Dude if someone can create something out of nothing and be omnipresent and can literally wish things into existence then I definitely think its magic......religious people always say how far fetched life happening by chance is even though even if the odds are 1 in a 50 quadtrillion billion trillion gazillion that over hundreds of millions and billions of years that many cell divisions are going to happen...... just a human being will have 10 quadrillion cells divisions in their body in a lifetime now do that by all the people on earth at any given time and the number is unfathomable.....now imagine that over hundreds of millions of years....so yeah I totally believe that in that time that it happened by chance since it had a number of chances so high as to not even be calculated. This makes much more sense to me than some god just deciding to create us one day.
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I was in the garden and threw a handfull of dust out of my left and right hand together one day. Big collision, bang . Suprised the local media didnt report on the well rounded shaped rocks that formed and spaced themselves out as a end result. Nothing + Nothing = Nothing
 
Matthew70 said:
A question I wonder about atheists. Do you believe in adultery or polygamy? I am asking to learn because adultery comes from the 10 commandments as do many other rules or laws whatever we shall call them. I often wonder without the 10 commandments where would be. Would murder be something acceptable and stealing. Like if no God then why is adultery wrong and murder? Why have rules if really no God. Everyone can believe what they believe is right. Such as someone might believe murder or stealing is right while another feels it’s wrong. Taking the 10 commandments out of the equation who says what is right and wrong.
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If anything, religion is like a lock. It keeps a honest man honest. I would not really trust an Atheist for this reason alone. They awalys bring murder and rape into conversation, but, not the ( easy to hide ) sins of false witness and adultery. I like the idea that there is a big eye in the sky watching when others can't see you. Keeps a honest man, honest.
 
VegasEagle said:
If anything, religion is like a lock. It keeps a honest man honest. I would not really trust an Atheist for this reason alone. They awalys bring murder and rape into conversation, but, not the ( easy to hide ) sins of false witness and adultery. I like the idea that there is a big eye in the sky watching when others can't see you. Keeps a honest man, honest.
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This is ridiculous....to imply atheist are not honest because we have no fear of hell is the dumbest thing ever......heck do Christians not commit all manner of crimes....are Christians not dishonest....they surely commit false witness and adultery, if anything the fact that Christians think they can do those things and then gain forgiveness and still enter heaven is more frightening, they see gods law as more important than mans law, thus if they want to commit a serious crime they feel like regardless of what man's law does to them they can still square things up with the big eye in the sky and reap the ultimate reward. So really the ONLY real deterrent to committing these crimes is mans law.

Whats the point of having 10 commandments if you can break them and then can instantly be forgiven for them.....and how does that work anyways if you cheat on your wife one time and don't repent is that automatically hell or is there a certain amount of sin you can accumulate before hitting the go to hell level?
 
I am by no means a Bible scholar, but my understanding and interpretation is that the intent of sinning matters.

One cannot just continue to sin because they know they will be forgiven, that's just not how it works. Once someone accepts Jesus as their savior they are expected to try their best to turn away from sin, and live by the commandments. For someone to just blatantly sin because they think they will be forgiven no matter what I think would not end well for them when their time of judgment comes.

Of course, even someone that has been saved is going to sin occasionally. We are of the flesh, and the flesh is weak, and loves its sin. And the Lord understands that, and even tells us that. So we are still going to succumb to sin from time to time, but if we aren't actively seeking to sin just because we can, our sins will be forgiven.

I don't know that there is a certain amount of sin that disqualifies one from entry into heaven, like I said, I'm no expert. But I think once someone accepts Jesus and they don't go out of their way to sin, then they should get to keep their eternal life.

TL;DR- To keep sinning intentionally because you think you've been saved forever is like spitting in the face of God, and I'm sure He doesn't like that!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Downeastnc said:
This is ridiculous....to imply atheist are not honest because we have no fear of hell is the dumbest thing ever......heck do Christians not commit all manner of crimes....are Christians not dishonest....they surely commit false witness and adultery, if anything the fact that Christians think they can do those things and then gain forgiveness and still enter heaven is more frightening, they see gods law as more important than mans law, thus if they want to commit a serious crime they feel like regardless of what man's law does to them they can still square things up with the big eye in the sky and reap the ultimate reward. So really the ONLY real deterrent to committing these crimes is mans law.

Whats the point of having 10 commandments if you can break them and then can instantly be forgiven for them.....and how does that work anyways if you cheat on your wife one time and don't repent is that automatically hell or is there a certain amount of sin you can accumulate before hitting the go to hell level?
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The reason for the Ten Commandments is the show us of our inadequacy and our need for Jesus.
 
esking76 said:
I am by no means a Bible scholar, but my understanding and interpretation is that the intent of sinning matters.

One cannot just continue to sin because they know they will be forgiven, that's just not how it works. Once someone accepts Jesus as their savior they are expected to try their best to turn away from sin, and live by the commandments. For someone to just blatantly sin because they think they will be forgiven no matter what I think would not end well for them when their time of judgment comes.

Of course, even someone that has been saved is going to sin occasionally. We are of the flesh, and the flesh is weak, and loves its sin. And the Lord understands that, and even tells us that. So we are still going to succumb to sin from time to time, but if we aren't actively seeking to sin just because we can, our sins will be forgiven.

I don't know that there is a certain amount of sin that disqualifies one from entry into heaven, like I said, I'm no expert. But I think once someone accepts Jesus and they don't go out of their way to sin, then they should get to keep their eternal life.

TL;DR- To keep sinning intentionally because you think you've been saved forever is like spitting in the face of God, and I'm sure He doesn't like that!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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But if after a lifetime of sinning you repent then all is good,you could even be a atheist and sin for 80 years and then a week before you die if you truly repent you sins and ask god into your heart Christians believe you are forgiven and go to heaven no matter what sins you have done or how many correct?
 
Downeastnc said:
But if after a lifetime of sinning you repent then all is good,you could even be a atheist and sin for 80 years and then a week before you die if you truly repent you sins and ask god into your heart Christians believe you are forgiven and go to heaven no matter what sins you have done or how many correct?
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Yes that's correct.
 
Downeastnc said:
But if after a lifetime of sinning you repent then all is good,you could even be a atheist and sin for 80 years and then a week before you die if you truly repent you sins and ask god into your heart Christians believe you are forgiven and go to heaven no matter what sins you have done or how many correct?
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Yes, that is correct. As long as you truly mean it, all is forgiven. The problem is, nobody knows when they are going to die. It might be 20 years from now, or it could be 20 seconds from now.

If someone uses that as an excuse to just be a horrible person for most of their life and then decide to repent on their deathbed, then I don't know what will happen on their day of judgment, and I'm sure some "Christians" live that way, but they aren't truly Christian if they do.

Not all Christians use salvation as an excuse to sin, but some do. Just like not all atheists use their lack of God to be horrible people, but some do. I was atheist for several years of my life, but I don't think I was a bad person (by man's standards anyway). I never used it as an excuse to hate others, or be mean, or to do bad things. I don't post often, but I've been on these various weather boards for at least a decade, and you seem like a great person, definitely not the type to use atheism as an excuse to do wrong, but those types do exist.

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esking76 said:
Yes, that is correct. As long as you truly mean it, all is forgiven. The problem is, nobody knows when they are going to die. It might be 20 years from now, or it could be 20 seconds from now.

If someone uses that as an excuse to just be a horrible person for most of their life and then decide to repent on their deathbed, then I don't know what will happen on their day of judgment, and I'm sure some "Christians" live that way, but they aren't truly Christian if they do.

Not all Christians use salvation as an excuse to sin, but some do. Just like not all atheists use their lack of God to be horrible people, but some do. I was atheist for several years of my life, but I don't think I was a bad person (by man's standards anyway). I never used it as an excuse to hate others, or be mean, or to do bad things. I don't post often, but I've been on these various weather boards for at least a decade, and you seem like a great person, definitely not the type to use atheism as an excuse to do wrong, but those types do exist.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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Good post. And I will add that from a non-Christian perspective, it probably seems like people of faith can just use Jesus as a get out of jail free card. We're forgiven, so we can sin all we want. Or just sin as much as you want and repent on your death bed. Except that's not really the case.

Salvation comes through earnest repentance and acknowledging that we are unholy in God's sight. And there is not one thing we can do to fix that. Only by trusting in Christ and accepting Him as the sacrifice for our sins can we be saved. That act, if it is a true heart change will bring about a life change. If someone goes on willfully sinning because they think they are just going to always be forgiven, then I would question whether or not they truly accepted Christ and had that "heart" change. The Bible is pretty clear on that point.

Being saved doesn't mean you won't sin. But it does mean that you earnestly try not to. If you're not interested in trying, then you really ought to examine your heart.
 
esking76 said:
I am by no means a Bible scholar, but my understanding and interpretation is that the intent of sinning matters.

One cannot just continue to sin because they know they will be forgiven, that's just not how it works. Once someone accepts Jesus as their savior they are expected to try their best to turn away from sin, and live by the commandments. For someone to just blatantly sin because they think they will be forgiven no matter what I think would not end well for them when their time of judgment comes.

Of course, even someone that has been saved is going to sin occasionally. We are of the flesh, and the flesh is weak, and loves its sin. And the Lord understands that, and even tells us that. So we are still going to succumb to sin from time to time, but if we aren't actively seeking to sin just because we can, our sins will be forgiven.

I don't know that there is a certain amount of sin that disqualifies one from entry into heaven, like I said, I'm no expert. But I think once someone accepts Jesus and they don't go out of their way to sin, then they should get to keep their eternal life.

TL;DR- To keep sinning intentionally because you think you've been saved forever is like spitting in the face of God, and I'm sure He doesn't like that!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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"What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning that grace may abound? By no means! We have died to sin, how can we go on living in it?"

Romans 6: 1-2
 
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Downeastnc said:
Whats the point of having 10 commandments if you can break them and then can instantly be forgiven for them.....and how does that work anyways if you cheat on your wife one time and don't repent is that automatically hell or is there a certain amount of sin you can accumulate before hitting the go to hell level?
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You're forgetting something very important here. Any sin reaches the "go to hell level." Why? It's because the word "sin" refers to being separated from God. "Acts of sin" cause that separation to widen, but we are automatically separated from God because we are human and humankind chose to turn away from God in the beginning; therefore the gap between us and God was created. We cannot (in our own power) bridge that gap; not by "being good," not by following human laws, and not by treating people "nicely." The only way to avoid total separation from God (which is the definition of hell) is by being able to reunify with Him. Put another way, the only way to be with Him (the definition of Heaven) is to close the gap between us and Him. But we cannot do it under our own power. Thankfully he gave us a way, a bridge, a unifyer.
 
Downeastnc said:
But if after a lifetime of sinning you repent then all is good,you could even be a atheist and sin for 80 years and then a week before you die if you truly repent you sins and ask god into your heart Christians believe you are forgiven and go to heaven no matter what sins you have done or how many correct?
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Because of the automatic separation (from God) we all have, hell (separation from God) is the natural and logical outcome, regardless of how many acts of sin one has committed in a lifetime. I think your question is one of fairness. "How is it fair for a person to do "bad" things for a lifetime then ask for forgiveness (even at the last minute) and go to be with God eternally?" I think the answer lies in the reality that we are all bound for eternal separation from God (hell) unless we accept the bridge of forgiveness (Jesus) and allow God to come back into our hearts. Only then can we be reconciled and receive the gift of being with Him eternally (heaven). The sacrifice of Jesus and the forgiveness of God is enough to cover all sin (all acts that separate us from Him). If it were not, then Jesus died in vain, and God ceases to be God. The separation from God (sin) that acts of sin cause, is not weighed on a scale, or tallied with a cutoff. Any separation at all, is separation, whether it is one or a thousand acts, and regardless of when they occur in life. The bridge of forgiveness is strong enough to remove all sin at any time. But, as Rain Cold and esking have discussed, Christians should be involved in the process of their hearts and minds being remade (sanctification) by the Holy Spirit, and that should yield less and less sin as time goes on, and not an embracing of it for the sake of forgiveness.
 
Downeastnc said:
But if after a lifetime of sinning you repent then all is good,you could even be a atheist and sin for 80 years and then a week before you die if you truly repent you sins and ask god into your heart Christians believe you are forgiven and go to heaven no matter what sins you have done or how many correct?
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Yes, that is correct. But, you don't know when you will die.
 
Downeastnc said:
This is ridiculous....to imply atheist are not honest because we have no fear of hell is the dumbest thing ever......heck do Christians not commit all manner of crimes....are Christians not dishonest....they surely commit false witness and adultery, if anything the fact that Christians think they can do those things and then gain forgiveness and still enter heaven is more frightening, they see gods law as more important than mans law, thus if they want to commit a serious crime they feel like regardless of what man's law does to them they can still square things up with the big eye in the sky and reap the ultimate reward. So really the ONLY real deterrent to committing these crimes is mans law.

Whats the point of having 10 commandments if you can break them and then can instantly be forgiven for them.....and how does that work anyways if you cheat on your wife one time and don't repent is that automatically hell or is there a certain amount of sin you can accumulate before hitting the go to hell level?
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I might of not have communicated my idea well. I did not mean to imply that an atheist can't be honest. I just like the idea of one fearing repercussions of doing wrong, when they are out of view of others.
 
Rain Cold said:
Good post. And I will add that from a non-Christian perspective, it probably seems like people of faith can just use Jesus as a get out of jail free card. We're forgiven, so we can sin all we want. Or just sin as much as you want and repent on your death bed. Except that's not really the case.

Salvation comes through earnest repentance and acknowledging that we are unholy in God's sight. And there is not one thing we can do to fix that. Only by trusting in Christ and accepting Him as the sacrifice for our sins can we be saved. That act, if it is a true heart change will bring about a life change. If someone goes on willfully sinning because they think they are just going to always be forgiven, then I would question whether or not they truly accepted Christ and had that "heart" change. The Bible is pretty clear on that point.

Being saved doesn't mean you won't sin. But it does mean that you earnestly try not to. If you're not interested in trying, then you really ought to examine your heart.
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There's only one problem with that...... God chastens those whom he loves. If we sin after salvation, God chastens us. We are given trials and tribulations to get us back in His will. A true born-again Christian cannot continue to serve the Devil. He will hate sin. Sure there are times when he will sin, but a man cannot serve two masters. He will love one and hate the other, or he will cling to one and despise the other.
 
Jessy89 said:
endtimeheadlines.org

Experts Warn a 'Horrible Surprise Coming', US-China Military Clash Within Six Months

RUMORS OF WAR: (CBN) - Tensions between the United States and China seem to be growing by the day, prompting some in Washington to worry about a potential
endtimeheadlines.org endtimeheadlines.org

This wouldn’t be good


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@jessy you really need to watch some of the articles your reading and sites your visiting. Rumors of war have always been. Just live each day to the fullest you can. Trust man upstairs that this will all be over soon. I do believe very dark days are ahead for the world. Even Ebola is spreading in Africa now but nothing we can do to change what is meant to happen. Just make best of what we are presented with keep pushing forward. This is just a temporary home for believers.
 
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