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Misc All Things Religious

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Iceagewhereartthou said:
I couldn't disagree more. Just because we can learn about how something works doesn't mean it wasn't created. I didn't make my computer and don't know much about the circuitry or software, but I could study and learn about it. Learning more about it would not take away any evidence that intelligence was necessary for it to exist; in fact, just the opposite. The more I learn about the intricacies and the complexities, the more it points to intelligence being needed for it to exist. Just because we have a good understanding of the physical laws that lead to lightning it does not mean there is no God. Complexity, order, physical laws, predictable outcomes, and our ability to learn and know things all point to intelligence, not a random chance of incomprehensible odds.
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Very well said
 
Iceagewhereartthou said:
I couldn't disagree more. Just because we can learn about how something works doesn't mean it wasn't created. I didn't make my computer and don't know much about the circuitry or software, but I could study and learn about it. Learning more about it would not take away any evidence that intelligence was necessary for it to exist; in fact, just the opposite. The more I learn about the intricacies and the complexities, the more it points to intelligence being needed for it to exist. Just because we have a good understanding of the physical laws that lead to lightning it does not mean there is no God. Complexity, order, physical laws, predictable outcomes, and our ability to learn and know things all point to intelligence, not a random chance of incomprehensible odds.
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Cetaceans didn't even discover fire. All your counter-arguments are subsets of human evolution/learning really. Nothing contradicts my argument.
 
Do you know how many chromosomes are in the human body? To think it was a random evolution process from a primordial swamp to have them properly sequencing is absurd. Just look at the amount of amino acids in the body and try to figure out just which one goes where is like throwing darts at a dart board, with a blindfold on, and having to hit dead center every time.
 
MichaelJ said:
Do you know how many chromosomes are in the human body? To think it was a random evolution process from a primordial swamp to have them properly sequencing is absurd. Just look at the amount of amino acids in the body and try to figure out just which one goes where is like throwing darts at a dart board, with a blindfold on, and having to hit dead center every time.
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How about blood clotting? Seem like that would be hard to evolve toward.
 
MichaelJ said:
Do you know how many chromosomes are in the human body? To think it was a random evolution process from a primordial swamp to have them properly sequencing is absurd. Just look at the amount of amino acids in the body and try to figure out just which one goes where is like throwing darts at a dart board, with a blindfold on, and having to hit dead center every time.
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Well when you have literally millions of years for those amino acids to arrange themselves in a infinite number of permutations then yes eventually the amino acids will hit on the best sequences that are most adaptable and survivable and evolve into more complex stuff....there have been several experiments that actually replicate this.....it took hundreds of millions to even billions of years for this to all happen its not like it went from nothing to organized life in a day or even millions of years.....so its not random, the notion that life on earth happened randomly is wrong... it was millions/billions of years of trial and error....
 
Downeastnc said:
Well when you have literally millions of years for those amino acids to arrange themselves in a infinite number of permutations then yes eventually the amino acids will hit on the best sequences that are most adaptable and survivable and evolve into more complex stuff....there have been several experiments that actually replicate this.....it took hundreds of millions to even billions of years for this to all happen its not like it went from nothing to organized life in a day or even millions of years.....so its not random, the notion that life on earth happened randomly is wrong... it was millions/billions of years of trial and error....
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Let me put it to you another way, the amount of possible sequencing of molecules to build a kidney and have it's purpose to filter urine or the synchronicity of proper liver function. How about the ability of the of the 7 TRILLION nerves in the body to work synergistically with our super computer called the brain and it's 100 billion cells working in the proper sequence from scratch would take trillions of years, not billions. Something HAD to have created a scenario of how they would work together and it would certainly not come from an accident in swamp goo.
 
MichaelJ said:
Do you know how many chromosomes are in the human body? To think it was a random evolution process from a primordial swamp to have them properly sequencing is absurd. Just look at the amount of amino acids in the body and try to figure out just which one goes where is like throwing darts at a dart board, with a blindfold on, and having to hit dead center every time.
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I am always amazed at the lengths many atheists will go to avoid the concept of a creator. To believe that multiple steps of origin, formation of bodies, origin of life (amino acid and protein formation for starters), etc, all happened undirected, despite incomprehensible odds at each step, shows more faith than I can muster. Imagine having enough faith that one is going to win the lottery millions of times in a row... I just don't have that much.
 
Downeastnc said:
Well when you have literally millions of years for those amino acids to arrange themselves in a infinite number of permutations then yes eventually the amino acids will hit on the best sequences that are most adaptable and survivable and evolve into more complex stuff....there have been several experiments that actually replicate this.....it took hundreds of millions to even billions of years for this to all happen its not like it went from nothing to organized life in a day or even millions of years.....so its not random, the notion that life on earth happened randomly is wrong... it was millions/billions of years of trial and error....
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MichaelJ said:
Let me put it to you another way, the amount of possible sequencing of molecules to build a kidney and have it's purpose to filter urine or the synchronicity of proper liver function. How about the ability of the of the 7 TRILLION nerves in the body to work synergistically with our super computer called the brain and it's 100 billion cells working in the proper sequence from scratch would take trillions of years, not billions. Something HAD to have created a scenario of how they would work together and it would certainly not come from an accident in swamp goo.
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I'm going to post this again, perhaps some didn't catch it. It addresses the incredible odds of a single protein forming by chance. There hasn't been nearly enough time in the universe for it to even be statistically conceivable, let alone convince me chance is the truth. Keep in mind, this is just for one legitimate protein, not even necessarily one that may be sustained or be able to copy itself.

 
Iceagewhereartthou said:
I'm going to post this again, perhaps some didn't catch it. It addresses the incredible odds of a single protein forming by chance. There hasn't been nearly enough time in the universe for it to even be statistically conceivable, let alone convince me chance is the truth. Keep in mind, this is just for one legitimate protein, not even necessarily one that may be sustained or be able to copy itself.

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This article says what I was going to say much better than I was going to say it.....

ncse.ngo

New Proteins Without God's Help | National Center for Science Education

Creationists seem to be proud of their calculations that supposedly show how thermodynamics and probability prevent the chance formation of biologically useful macromolecules such as enzymes. Their "evidence" usually consists of quotations from such authors as Hubert P.
ncse.ngo ncse.ngo
 
Downeastnc said:
This article says what I was going to say much better than I was going to say it.....

ncse.ngo

New Proteins Without God's Help | National Center for Science Education

Creationists seem to be proud of their calculations that supposedly show how thermodynamics and probability prevent the chance formation of biologically useful macromolecules such as enzymes. Their "evidence" usually consists of quotations from such authors as Hubert P.
ncse.ngo ncse.ngo
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Hmmm, well this article from 1985 is quoting a guy from 1977. Since that time there have been many challenges to the idea of origin by chance. So many in fact, many modern scientists have admitted the idea of chance alone is very unlikely. The recent movement of "seeding" is an outflow of that. Basically that the chances of this random forming of proteins is so unlikely that perhaps life was seeded here by a comet or other body, or by alien intelligence. Of course, this would only pass the buck; ie, where did that life come from, but it acknowledges the very probabilistic issue we are discussing. Seeding has gained a lot of traction in recent years and even strict atheists like Richard Dawkins and Micheal Shermer have talked about it.

Further, the authors contention that creationists "do their own calculations" may have been true before 1985 but I haven't seen that to be the case at all. The video I linked to started in the favor of chance by filling the oceans with viable amino acids without any hostile conditions to the acids themselves, and used 150 amino acids to be correctly ordered as it's base for calculations as opposed to the simplest life forms we know needing far more. Ralph Munchaster, (and former atheist) in his 2004 book "Examining the Evidence" wrote a whole chapter on this issue and started his calculations on a far smaller number of amino acids; I think it was just 50. Why 50? Because he was giving the benefit of the doubt to chance to illustrate his point. He also used other numbers quoted directly from scientists. I have read other accounts of this too, and in every one, the writer gives every accommodation to side the of chance. Even when trying to give chance the advantage, the odds are so far fetched that to believe in chance alone, would not only be illogical, it would be folly.
 
This guy pretty much hit every single thing that I questioned growing up and what led me to becoming full blown athiest. He does it in a very smooth calm articulated way that it's hard to argue against anything he says.

 
Shaggy said:
This guy pretty much hit every single thing that I questioned growing up and what led me to becoming full blown athiest. He does it in a very smooth calm articulated way that it's hard to argue against anything he says.

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Well I can argue everything he says. People didn’t just pop up one day. Life didn’t create itself God has always been here. Now Atheist will bow down to Jesus very soon as will everyone because Jesus is coming and he is coming soon!


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Jessy89 said:
Well I can argue everything he says. People didn’t just pop up one day. Life didn’t create itself God has always been here. Now Atheist will bow down to Jesus very soon as will everyone because Jesus is coming and he is coming soon!


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I'm guessing you didnt watch much or any of the video.
 
Jessy89 said:
Well I can argue everything he says. People didn’t just pop up one day. Life didn’t create itself God has always been here. Now Atheist will bow down to Jesus very soon as will everyone because Jesus is coming and he is coming soon!


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My best counter and response to that video would be this video. And it’s only 2 minutes





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Jessy89 said:
My best counter and response to that video would be this video. And it’s only 2 minutes





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I thought you didn’t like Muslims and they worship a demonic moon god . I speak in gist about that last part lol. Just something I have heard before ( not saying from you).
 
Jessy89 said:
I’m watching it now. I’d love to see my pastor debate him. That would be very entertaining


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So what if I came and stole your car and your ATM card drove to the ATM dumped your savings and then went and bought food for the needy. I get caught and i tell the cops and you that I was ordered by god to do it.

You dropping the charges?
 
Shaggy said:
So what if I came and stole your car and your ATM card drove to the ATM dumped your savings and then went and bought food for the needy. I get caught and i tell the cops and you that I was ordered by god to do it.

You dropping the charges?
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That's not a Biblical principle.
 
Rain Cold said:
That's not a Biblical principle.
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But god ordered good men to do bad things and it was ok because god said so. So if I do the scenario I mentioned why is that not seen as ok in today's time? It very well or even likely would have been 2000 years ago......if they had cars and arms lol.
 
Shaggy said:
But god ordered good men to do bad things and it was ok because god said so. So if I do the scenario I mentioned why is that not seen as ok in today's time? It very well or even likely would have been 2000 years ago......if they had cars and arms lol.
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I didn't watch the video, but context always matters. That's like your grandfather telling you a story about the time he shot someone and was told it was ok, and he didn't get in trouble. So you go and shoot someone, thinking it was cool. What he didn't tell you is that is that he was fighting in WW2.
 
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I believe we just finished the 3rd seal and are in there he 4th seal. All this is happening


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Rain Cold said:
I didn't watch the video, but context always matters. That's like your grandfather telling you a story about the time he shot someone and was told it was ok, and he didn't get in trouble. So you go and shoot someone, thinking it was cool. What he didn't tell you is that is that he was fighting in WW2.
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Now come on, Christ said not to worry about clothes and food because God said he would take care of us. Also the Church in Acts sold all that they had and had all things in common.

Thus we need to be lazy communists, the Bible says so.
 
Arcc said:
Now come on, Christ said not to worry about clothes and food because God said he would take care of us. Also the Church in Acts sold all that they had and had all things in common.

Thus we need to be lazy communists, the Bible says so.
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Sorry, that's not how it works..... "God helps them that help themselves". If you are walking upright and in the will of God, he will provide for you. However, you are expected to work for your living.
 
Cad Wedge NC said:
Sorry, that's not how it works..... "God helps them that help themselves". If you are walking upright and in the will of God, he will provide for you. However, you are expected to work for your living.
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No it’s definitely how it works.....if you take verses out of context.
 
SimeonNC said:
I had an atheist phase when I was younger but I now consider myself a nondenominational Christian.

I have certain issues with Christianity as of today, mostly just sketchy people(prosperity preachers), certain organizations(*cough Elevations *cough) along with those who use the Bible to justify hate.

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I get what you are saying. I was a bubble thumping Christian years ago. Now I’m a Christian but have my doubts. These days though I see the word of God being fulfilled in Revelations. Even if it’s not really Revelations then clearly mankind is on its way to destroying itself. The hate and immoral behavior is disgusting. All I had said could happen from the virus is happening. Yet I’m silenced because no one wants to believe that America is not invincible. If Bible is right Lawlessness Will continue to spread and get much worse. I believe defunding the police is setting this stage. Murders and crime will continue to increase. It’s easy to see once the liberals control all the govt. they will go after guns saying getting rid of guns will solve murders and crimes. That is my opinion. Maybe everything will work out and the liberals will not ruin this country. The Bible is not only thing that says a reset is coming. History says ever civilization usually only last 200 years. Well we’re over that. Guess we shall find out soon is Bible ending happening or is history repeating. Either path is very dark. I’m thankful though I have my doubts in God that I have faith to stand fast for how bad it might get.
 
Webberweather53 said:
God doesn’t exist. Next question
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Why do you come into a religious section with a comment like that? You don’t believe and that I respect so how about respecting the discussions in here instead of making a ridiculous post like you just did. You jump on others for such things yet it’s ok for you to do it? So as you would say how about proof that he does not? @Webberweather53 maybe opening your heart and maybe giving God a chance to show he’s real might do you good. You seem so angry and miserable in life. I don’t know you really but I do know you are great at wx and are very intelligent.
 
Webberweather53 said:
Unfortunately, it's pretty evident many of the people in this very thread verify stereotypes about hypocritical right-wing bible thumpers.
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Just as you verify liberal Marxist miserable left-wingers who hates everything and it’s their way of thinking and doing that matters. You call people names so quickly. So you don’t believe. Point taken and we all respect you letting us know. Thank you for your input.
 
EastAtlwx said:
With what we know for sure, believing in god is the biggest stretch ever lol
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I wholeheartedly disagree and feel not believing in a supreme being is a stretch. To each their own and not something that should cause fighting.

Edit: Now regarding which religion(s), if any, is the "correct" one(s), that's going to be biased more by how one was brought up more than anything else. Maybe they're all way off. Maybe it doesn't matter? Who knows?
The idea that folks who didn't happen to be born into a specific religion and therefore naturally don't believe in said religion are going to heck and a handbasket just because they don't believe in some other specific religion. is silly.
One can easily believe in the Almighty without following any religion.
 
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Matthew70 said:
Just as you verify liberal Marxist miserable left-wingers who hates everything and it’s their way of thinking and doing that matters. You call people names so quickly. So you don’t believe. Point taken and we all respect you letting us know. Thank you for your input.
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My earlier point(s) stands, this very post confirms the stereotypes and yes there is no god. Again, next question
 
Webberweather53 said:
God doesn’t exist. Next question
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If you truly don't believe in God, and you are educated enough to understand, you should watch the most educated Christian man to ever address this issue. Trust me it will be worth the hour you spend on this. He authored 30 books including "Can a man live without God". Even the folks that do believe could use some talking points. Hey, Shaggy, Downeast and Webb. Let me know what you guys think about this video. By the way, this guy just recently died.
 
Cad Wedge NC said:

If you truly don't believe in God, and you are educated enough to understand, you should watch the most educated Christian man to ever address this issue. Trust me it will be worth the hour you spend on this. He authored 30 books including "Can a man live without God". Even the folks that do believe could use some talking points. Hey, Shaggy, Downeast and Webb. Let me know what you guys think about this video. By the way, this guy just recently died.
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Made to the point of morallaw and started to cringe. That's one of the biggest and touchiest points and one I believe Christians have wrong.

On another forum I'm accused of being immoral just for being athiest. I'm accused of this by men who openly wish for protestors to be maimed and tortured. Men who put the price of life at the price of a spray paint can. These men who tell me I have no morals because I dont believe in their god.

Theres a song called "morality" by a guy named young inc. It starts off by saying "

"athiest dont have a problem being moral but if you would be out raping and killing if there was no god then by all means please keep believing"
 
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