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Misc All Things Religious

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Yes, the bottom line is that if life carries with it eternal import, then there has to be a universal standard that defines good and bad. It can't be a floating scale based on the mood of the day, the whim of a particular individual, or the period of time in which one lives. If God is responsible for all creation, then he owns the definition.

If you don't believe in God and instead believe that everything came to be out of nothing (which takes far greater faith, when you consider the complexities all around us), then there is no absolute right or wrong. And therefore, you really shouldn't (and don't have a right to) advocate for anything.
 
Yes, the bottom line is that if life carries with it eternal import, then there has to be a universal standard that defines good and bad. It can't be a floating scale based on the mood of the day, the whim of a particular individual, or the period of time in which one lives. If God is responsible for all creation, then he owns the definition.

If you don't believe in God and instead believe that everything came to be out of nothing (which takes far greater faith, when you consider the complexities all around us), then there is no absolute right or wrong. And therefore, you really shouldn't (and don't have a right to) advocate for anything.

Exactly!

Let’s look a scenario; you are driving down the road and as we all have done, you get distracted by a sight for a split second or you look down at your radio or maybe you hear your phone ding from a text which you quickly read. You then look back up and realize you are in the other lane but thankfully no one is there. Is that why you are a “good” person because at that moment no car or person was there? If someone was there and you kill them; are you then suddenly a “horrible” person? Is the standard between good and horrible an act of God no one was there, or chance, or luck, or karma?

Does just because I’ve never received a ticket make me a “good” driver or just because they haven’t caught me yet or because I haven’t lost control and hit a tree or hydroplaned make me a “good” driver.
 
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Good? Horrible? What is that? Is good the Muslim who lives under his strict law? Is evil the American who lives in complete excess? Is a good person someone who lives under the threat of “good” western laws? Or is horrible that same American who has everything he could ever dream, yet lies on his resume to get that promotion over some else or cuts off that car on the way to work almost killing someone over a minute or two? What is that “good” life?

God doesn’t send someone to hell, he allows us to go to the dump where we belong.
This ^^^ His mercy offers salvation from what we deserve. And He offers it to anyone who truly believes, no timelines imposed
 
Yes, the bottom line is that if life carries with it eternal import, then there has to be a universal standard that defines good and bad. It can't be a floating scale based on the mood of the day, the whim of a particular individual, or the period of time in which one lives. If God is responsible for all creation, then he owns the definition.

If you don't believe in God and instead believe that everything came to be out of nothing (which takes far greater faith, when you consider the complexities all around us), then there is no absolute right or wrong. And therefore, you really shouldn't (and don't have a right to) advocate for anything.

But this is literally how its been.....Christianity has evolved and the religion today is much different than it was a few hundred much less several thousand years ago. Things that today are frowned upon was normal and accepted hundreds of years ago., marrying children, killing infidels, burning witches etc....

The second paragraph is the ultimate gatekeeping.....
 
But this is literally how its been.....Christianity has evolved and the religion today is much different than it was a few hundred much less several thousand years ago. Things that today are frowned upon was normal and accepted hundreds of years ago., marrying children, killing infidels, burning witches etc....

The second paragraph is the ultimate gatekeeping.....
This simply isn't true. What we believe as Christians is based entirely on God's word, which has never changed
 
This simply isn't true. What we believe as Christians is based entirely on God's word, which has never changed
Can you please point to a passage of new testiment scripture that says we should burn witches?
 
Where in the New Testament does it say to burn witches?
I didn't say that you did. But plenty of killing to go around. And slavery and ethnic cleansing and plundering. Nobody disowned it and it's God's word so we have to take it as gospel
 
I didn't say that you did. But plenty of killing to go around. And slavery and ethnic cleansing and plundering. Nobody disowned it and it's God's word so we have to take it as gospel
Ok then. I'll wait for Downeast to get back.
 
I know you guys love Scripture and of course I know you don't feel this way but this isn't love.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 English Standard Version (ESV)

6“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known,7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
 
Ok then. I'll wait for Downeast to get back.
Not sure if this is witchery but don't want to spend hours arguing about what a witch is

Exodus 22:18 ESV / 104 helpful votes​

“You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

Leviticus 20:27 ESV / 57 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned
 
Not sure if this is witchery but don't want to spend hours arguing about what a witch is

Exodus 22:18 ESV / 104 helpful votes​

“You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

Leviticus 20:27 ESV / 57 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned
Yes, that would be old testament. Can you please find a new testament scripture that supports this? Of not, then let Downeast take a turn.
 
The old testament is 2/3 of the Bible. Why is it not important to you?
Because I'm not interested in going back through everything that's been covered 10,000 times already. Find me a new testament passage about witch burning or let Downeast take a turn.
 
Because I'm not interested in going back through everything that's been covered 10,000 times already. Find me a new testament passage about witch burning or let Downeast take a turn.
Downeast never mentioned new or old testament he just said burning witches was once accepted. I just showed you where in the Bible that occurs so no need to get snippy
 
Because I'm not interested in going back through everything that's been covered 10,000 times already. Find me a new testament passage about witch burning or let Downeast take a turn.
I did find where you certainly won't inherit the kingdom in the NT. Apparently you can't be jealous, a drunk or really horny either

Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:20-21)
 
I did find where you certainly won't inherit the kingdom in the NT. Apparently you can't be jealous, a drunk or really horny either

Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:20-21)

You can be all those things as long as before you die you promise god you are sorry for it and you really really mean it....
 
Most of the debate is futile with nonbelievers and especially with nonbelievers who have no desire to find one ounce of truth. They hate God and anything associated with him, cherry pick scriptures to try and make their point but refuse to listen when respectful, thoughtful and thorough insights to the contrary are offered up. You can't read a passage here and there to get a full understanding. There takes Faith, belief and prayer along with prolonged in depth study to understand all scripture. Even then God's wisdom is beyond ours and none will fully understand until His return.
Also of note, none of them have ever been able to define what "good" is to them, only protest that "good" people don't go to heaven.
 
You can be all those things as long as before you die you promise god you are sorry for it and you really really mean it....
That’s just how “grace” works. It’s the kind of God that forgives someone who doesn’t “deserve” it, even if someone returns at the very end. What an appalling idea, huh?

It reminds me of the parable Jesus told in Matthew 20, where workers who showed up at “the eleventh hour” received the same as those who had worked faithfully all day long.
 
I know you guys love Scripture and of course I know you don't feel this way but this isn't love.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 English Standard Version (ESV)

6“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known,7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."

In World War Two, American soldiers shot Germans, firebombed German cities, blew up their farmland, vehicles and equipment and killed their farm animals.

How horrible is that?
 
Most of the debate is futile with nonbelievers and especially with nonbelievers who have no desire to find one ounce of truth. They hate God and anything associated with him, cherry pick scriptures to try and make their point but refuse to listen when respectful, thoughtful and thorough insights to the contrary are offered up. You can't read a passage here and there to get a full understanding. There takes Faith, belief and prayer along with prolonged in depth study to understand all scripture. Even then God's wisdom is beyond ours and none will fully understand until His return.
Also of note, none of them have ever been able to define what "good" is to them, only protest that "good" people don't go to heaven.
Well I'm not a non-believer. I believe in a creator. I just can't follow the dogma of a war God dictator who wants to love me by ruling over me. In other words the God of the bible IS NOT MY CREATOR. He may be yours but my creator is inside me and always has been. You need to move past calling everyone who disagrees with you a non-believer
 
In World War Two, American soldiers shot Germans, firebombed German cities, blew up their farmland, vehicles and equipment and killed their farm animals.

How horrible is that?
War is horrible and any vet, including me will tell you it's beyond horrific. Ask the wives and husbands of vets why have taken their own life just how horrible it is. I can't believe you even asked me that. I don't even want to know what your point is
 
War is horrible and any vet, including me will tell you it's beyond horrific. Ask the wives and husbands of vets why have taken their own life just how horrible it is. I can't believe you even asked me that. I don't even want to know what your point is

You posted a fact out of the Bible and I posted a fact out of history. Neither of us mentioned context or an explanation.

For you the Bible verse shows that God isnt a God of love and fact I posted showed that the Americans butchered the German people.
 
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Well I'm not a non-believer. I believe in a creator. I just can't follow the dogma of a war God dictator who wants to love me by ruling over me. In other words the God of the bible IS NOT MY CREATOR. He may be yours but my creator is inside me and always has been. You need to move past calling everyone who disagrees with you a non-believer
Ok
 
You posted a fact out of the Bible and I posted a fact out of history. Neither of us mentioned context or an explanation.

For you the Bible verse shows that God isnt a God of love and fact I posted showed that the Americans butchered the German people.
The fact is you can't defend what's in it period. It's all there in black and white and you really just proved my point. Religion kills people. It's done nothing but condone killing since it's inception but it isn't you doing the killing so you justify it with "Scripture" to make those of us who did the violence for you "feel better" about it. Research your own book, take the blinders off and become the worshiper Jesus meant you to be. Our own government is the worst offender of them all as you so eloquently pointed out
 
The fact is you can't defend what's in it period. It's all there in black and white and you really just proved my point. Religion kills people. It's done nothing but condone killing since it's inception but it isn't you doing the killing so you justify it with "Scripture" to make those of us who did the violence for you "feel better" about it. Research your own book, take the blinders off and become the worshiper Jesus meant you to be. Our own government is the worst offender of them all as you so eloquently pointed out

I could easily defend it, but it wouldn’t help. Besides you a missing the point completely as I’m not “making myself feel better”. I posted a fact completely out of context to prove how silly your point of just throwing out a few verses of scripture is. Ofcourse we know why Americans had to fight and they were completely justified in their actions. We also know by actually reading scripture that God was completely justified in imposing a very harsh law on the Jews which included stout mortal punishment upon those that broke it.

I don’t understand however what you meant about being the worshipper Christ wants me to be? Which Christ are we talking about now? The one from the Bible, the conglomerate one you have mentioned in the past or am I free to make up one?
 
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I could easily defend it, but it wouldn’t help. Besides you a missing the point completely as I’m not “making myself feel better”. I posted a fact completely out of context to prove how silly your point of just throwing out a few verses of scripture is. Ofcourse we know why Americans had to fight and they were completely justified in their actions. We also know by actually reading scripture that God was completely justified in imposing a very harsh law on the Jews which included stout mortal punishment upon those that broke it.

I don’t understand however what you meant about being the worshipper Christ wants me to be? Which Christ are we talking about now? The one from the Bible, the conglomerate one you have mentioned in the past or am I free to make up one?
Ok defend this. Who is saying this? Is it the loving god? I dont need to see more scripture but I want to see you folks defend this crap you believe in with all your heart. if you don't believe it then of course you don't believe god's word according to you

Numbers 31:17-18

New International Version

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

When you are done defend this one. Remember this is the word of your peaceful loving god

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

New International Version

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.

More loving words from god

Exodus 21:7-11

New International Version

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

So much love for non-believers

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman".



Again....who is saying these things? Is this still god's word?

Luke 19:27

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Matthew 10:34

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Ezekiel 35:7-9

I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation, and I will cut off from it all who come and go. And I will fill its mountains with the slain. On your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall. I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord
 
Ok defend this. Who is saying this? Is it the loving god? I dont need to see more scripture but I want to see you folks defend this crap you believe in with all your heart. if you don't believe it then of course you don't believe god's word according to you

Numbers 31:17-18

New International Version

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

When you are done defend this one. Remember this is the word of your peaceful loving god

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

New International Version

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.

More loving words from god

Exodus 21:7-11

New International Version

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

So much love for non-believers

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman".



Again....who is saying these things? Is this still god's word?

Luke 19:27

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Matthew 10:34

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Ezekiel 35:7-9

I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation, and I will cut off from it all who come and go. And I will fill its mountains with the slain. On your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall. I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord
KJV all day!
 
KJV all day!
So you need me to post it in another bible version for you? It says the same thing. Do you agree with all this crap? I mean you have a dozen versions to choose from and all are supposed to be "the word of god". The fact is you can't defend it but you sure as heck don't seem bothered by it at all
 
So you need me to post it in another bible version for you? It says the same thing. Do you agree with all this crap? I mean you have a dozen versions to choose from and all are supposed to be "the word of god". The fact is you can't defend it but you sure as heck don't seem bothered by it at all
No, I'm not bothered by it in the least.
 
Ok defend this. Who is saying this? Is it the loving god? I dont need to see more scripture but I want to see you folks defend this crap you believe in with all your heart. if you don't believe it then of course you don't believe god's word according to you

Numbers 31:17-18

New International Version

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

When you are done defend this one. Remember this is the word of your peaceful loving god

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

New International Version

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.

More loving words from god

Exodus 21:7-11

New International Version

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

So much love for non-believers

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman".



Again....who is saying these things? Is this still god's word?

Luke 19:27

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

Matthew 10:34

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword".

Ezekiel 35:7-9

I will make Mount Seir a waste and a desolation, and I will cut off from it all who come and go. And I will fill its mountains with the slain. On your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall. I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord

First question, did you actually find these in your Bible or did you simply google search.

If you actually did go and hunt for these verses then I’ll be happy to talk about what it is talking about considering the surrounding scripture.

If you did just google search these out, trying to talk about these verses will be like hitting Gak(if anyone remembers what that is) with a wooden mallet. The more verses we go through, the more you will just pull off google and before long you will be posting “Jesus wept” and telling me that shows that Jesus was always sad and following him makes you miserable.
The discussion would accomplish as much as me trying to tell you how horrible the M16 is despite never shooting one or knowing very much about it beyond an episode of Modern Marvels.

This discussion is interesting, but not that interesting.
 
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First question, did you actually find these in your Bible or did you simply google search.

If you actually did go and hunt for these verses then I’ll be happy to talk about what it is talking about considering the surrounding scripture.

If you did just google search these out, trying to talk about these verses will be like hitting Gak(if anyone remembers what that is) with a wooden mallet. The more verses we go through, the more you will just pull off google and before long you will be posting “Jesus wept” and telling me that shows that Jesus was always sad and following him makes you miserable.
The discussion would accomplish as much as me trying to tell you how horrible the M16 is despite never shooting one or knowing very much about it beyond an episode of Modern Marvels.

This discussion is interesting, but not that interesting.
It's right in there buddy you just don't want to accept it. I can give you any version you prefer to see. it's still the same thing. I know it's probably a shock to many of you who didn't know this crap was in the bible. I didn't either until I started doing my own research by we are always told that the bible is god's word. Well I have shown it to you. The point I am trying to make is that this wasn't written by or for any creator that loves you. These words come from a brutal dictator that somehow convinced the people of his time that he was their lord. They obviously believed it
 
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