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Pattern December - Deal or No Deal?

That 0z Euro run is somewhat in line with the GEFS. If the 0z Euro had the low further south like the GEFS, most of that frozen precip would've been snow/sleet. I'm more curious as to what the 0z EPS will show. The GFS OP, FV3 and CMC have been all over the place. However, some of their runs have been more realstic. So far, Euro is on board, GEFS and possibly the 0z EPS. That's why it's always a good idea to use a combination of models that do agree with each other accordingly to come up with the best solution. I still believe that there will be a south trend. If there will be a south trend, MS and AL could be at play with some wrap around snow. But, if you are in northern Georgia and points northeastward, you're in the zone of a longer duration of winter precip. as we stand now.
 
0z EPS is similar to 0z GEFS with the track of low. Both have it tracking along the Gulf coast. Hopefully the OP models will be on board with the ensembles.
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Wow look at that hail core south of Easley! I can see the lightning and hear the thunder from my house:weenie:
 
The GFS was no longer a slow outlier as of last night because it took a huge step towards the Euro solution with a faster/flatter wave & proceeded to continue to do so on this morning's 6z run. Also notice the northern stream wave out in front of it over the NE US and Lakes slowed down this run, which provides a little extra time for the SW US wave to come out into a big cold high to the N and NE. Still about 2-3 more days from figuring whether this is a warmer cutter or cold Gulf coast solution but we're taking strides towards the colder Gulf coast solutions.

It's important to keep in mind that the depth of the wave is related to phase speed. Even if all else was considered equal, the flatter, weaker s/w will tend to propagate more quickly in the westerly background flow than the wave that digs deep into Mexico.
gfs_z500_vort_us_fh138_trend.gif
 
The GFS was no longer a slow outlier as of last night because it took a huge step towards the Euro solution with a faster/flatter wave & proceeded to continue to do so on this morning's 6z run. Also notice the northern stream wave out in front of it over the NE US and Lakes slowed down this run, which provides a little extra time for the SW US wave to come out into a big cold high to the N and NE. Still about 2-3 more days from figuring whether this is a warmer cutter or cold Gulf coast solution but we're taking strides towards the colder Gulf coast solutions.

It's important to keep in mind that the depth of the wave is related to phase speed. Even if all else was considered equal, the flatter, weaker s/w will tend to propagate more quickly in the westerly background flow than the wave that digs deep into Mexico.
View attachment 7920
Thanks for your analysis Webber. We always appreciate you posting your thoughts in here.
 
Yes. A more suppressed, weaker track that goes east and out to sea instead of cutting or going up the coast.
You know what's funny? ....... this storm was modeled on Nov 24th and we all laughed and said that there was little to no chance of verification. Here we are 6 days out and now it's now a legitimate threat. Interesting....
 
the WPC extended discussion breaks it down well IMO, I highlighted in red the part that's key.

Extended Forecast Discussion
NWS Weather Prediction Center College Park MD
148 AM EST Sun Dec 02 2018

Valid 12Z Wed Dec 05 2018 - 12Z Sun Dec 09 2018

...Cold pattern with increasing winter weather potential for
portions of the central/eastern U.S. late this week...


...Overview...

The flow across the CONUS during the medium range will lie in a
transition zone from highly amplified/blocked flow extending from
east Asia across the North Pacific to somewhat more progressive
flow across the Atlantic Ocean. Anomalous ridging across Siberia
will displace cold polar/arctic air toward Canada, and persistent
ridging from western Canada north to Alaska will favor transport
of cold air southward from Canada into the central/eastern U.S. A
number of shortwaves will traverse an active northern stream from
the Midwest to the Northeast during the period, with a strong cold
front accompanying the most significant of these waves across the
Plains, Ohio Valley, and Northeast Wed-Fri. Farther south, an
active southern stream will spread Pacific energy from California
east across the southern states. A wave of low pressure is
expected to develop along the polar front near the western Gulf
Coast by Sat morning in response as the southern stream wave
approaches. Models continue to suggest the possibility for phasing
interaction this southern stream wave with additional northern
stream energy by Sat night/Sun, with potential development of a
coastal low near the Southeast U.S. coast.


...Guidance Evaluation/Preferences...

Models handled both northern and southern stream features
sufficiently during days 3-4 (Wed-Thu) to justify use of a
multi-model deterministic blend (ECMWF/GFS/FV3). Starting on day 5
(Fri), forecast confidence begins a gradual downward slide,
especially surrounding a couple key areas.
While most solutions
agree that the southern stream wave should gradually deamplify as
it moves east, differences emerge as to the timing of the
deamplification as well as the timing of the eastward progression.
Uncertainty is even a bit higher in the northern stream by late
week, as models have shown a fairly large degree of variability
and run-to-run inconsistency with a number of smaller scale
impulses traversing the Midwest/Great Lakes. Both of these factors
play a substantial role in any potential phasing of the two
streams, with compounding uncertainty surrounding any such
interaction. As a testament to the large array of possible
solutions, even the usually under-dispersed GEFS becomes quite
dispersed by next weekend, with similar behavior shown by the
ECENS and CMCE ensembles. As a surface low develops along the
western Gulf Coast Fri night, the precise evolution/track of this
feature will hinge entirely on the eventual evolution of these
upper-level features. Possibilities range from a consolidated low
pressure area that moves north toward the Ohio Valley to a more
easterly moving low with energy transferring to a new coastal

system once phasing occurs. Given these considerations, a
transition to majority weighting of ensemble means (ECENS/GEFS)
was shown from day 5 onward, with the solution by day 7 (Sun)
comprised almost entirely of ensemble means.


...Weather Highlights/Hazards...

Systems traversing the northern stream across the Midwest/Great
Lakes will be relatively starved for moisture, but lake effect
enhanced snowfall will be possible. Heavy precipitation (rain and
mountain snow) will be possible for portions of California and the
Southwest Wed-Thu as the southern stream system moves onshore. As
this system reaches the central U.S. on Fri it will begin to
advect deeper Gulf of Mexico moisture northward, which will be
enhanced ahead of a developing surface low in the northwestern
Gulf. The result is expected to be a shield of widespread and
potentially heavy precipitation Fri-Sat from portions of the
southern plains to the Tennessee Valley. Wintry precipitation will
be possible on the northern periphery of this system as a cold
front and strong polar surface high provide an abundant source of
cold air. Precipitation should spread into the
Appalachians/Mid-Atlantic regions by Sat/Sat night as we see a new
surface low potentially developing along the Southeast coast. See
the latest Day 4-7 winter weather outlooks for details on areas
expected to see the greatest winter weather threat in the medium
range.

Temperatures will be below normal across much of the CONUS through
the medium range. The central U.S. will see the largest
temperature anomalies through much of the period, where high temps
are expected to range from 10 to 20 deg F below average.
Surrounding areas from the Rockies to the Eastern Seaboard will
not escape the cold conditions, with highs across a large area
ranging from 5 to 15 deg below average.


Ryan
 
You know what's funny? ....... this storm was modeled on Nov 24th and we all laughed and said that there was little to no chance of verification. Here we are 6 days out and now it's now a legitimate threat. Interesting....

What’s laughable is what the FV3 just put out...LOL
cbba7f03c2eecc829621b015a2b85e3b.jpg



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GSP

LONG TERM /WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY/...
As of 435 AM Sunday: The latter part of the week looks quiet
and seasonally cool with temps remaining below normal as high
pressure moves across the region on Thursday and weakens offshore
Friday. From that point onward, the situation gets much more
interesting and complicated because of a split flow pattern
that supports a cold continental high over the nrn Plains and a
developing srn stream system on Friday into Saturday. Have been
looking at this one for the last few days with some interest and it
still looks like a race between the arrival of the cold air spilling
over the mtns and the precip developing along a warm front caught
up in the fast-moving confluent flow aloft. The model trends are
looking more compelling early this morning, as for the last few
runs the models show decent consistency with the sfc high moving
over the Midwest and bridging over the mtns by Friday evening in
time to bring the low level dry air into the nrn tier just ahead
of the precip, which arrives from the WSW after midnight. In other
words, the cold air wins the race, at least for the area along/N
of I-40. In this scenario, the precip development would quickly
lock in a cold air damming wedge that would bring even more cold
air down from the north. The result would be a wintry mess across
at least the nrn parts of the fcst area starting by sunrise and
continuing thru Saturday and into Saturday night as the primary
sfc low moves past to the south and then off the mid-Atlantic
coast Sunday morning. The GEFS plume diagrams bear out this trend
across the NW Piedmont and mtns as well, with the p-type looking
like an equal chance of all four types on Saturday/Saturday
night. As for the forecast, some tweaks have been made to delay
the onset into Saturday morning, but eventually a likely prob
will be featured. Have followed the temp trend downward, which
improves the chances of wintry precip across the NC part of the
fcst area. For this issuance, the consensus among neighboring
offices was to limit the precip to rain v. snow, but the reality
would be something quite a bit more messy if the model guidance
was to verify. There is plenty of time to fine tune this. For
the time being, suffice to say that readers should start paying
attention to the winter storm potential next weekend.


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Well, this map should wake up the Georgia and SC folks. Still potential for Atlanta and the midlands of SC.
Lol it has 22" just 15 miles to my NW... ok

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Euro and new GFS model runs are interesting. Also find it encouraging the Euro still interacts the low with the northern stream towards the end, which floods more WAA into areas outside of the main CAD areas. If no interaction occurs, which is possible, RDU folks and SC. Midlands will see an even more wintry scenario. Something to watch and that is hinted on a lot of the ensemble runs.
 
Another scenario here most of us would feel impossible to believe would be an extremely suppressed, weak system. Not likely, but all options still on the table this far out. As usual we are always riding a razors edge.
 
Alright I'm drilling down with some soundings and stuff. Turns out that the GFS and the FV3 aren't too far apart when it comes to the ptype.. the ridiculous amounts this far South are not correct, as it's a mixed bag on either modeling.

The GFS is actually more robust in Wintry ptype very far South while the FV3 is trying it's hardest to contain it to the Upstate/Northern Midlands and into SC but the wedge does win out briefly.. with a sleet/mix scenario into the ATL region.. and a nasty ice mess for CLT/GSP.

The FV3 map from tidbits is seeing "sleet" mixed in with the rain through a large chunk of SC and registering it as all snow since it's frozen I'm thinking.

Here is an example frame for the CAE area:
cae.PNG


And here is the same time/example for CLT:
clt.PNG
 
I'd also like to note that the 06z GEFS is backing way off versus it's 00z run... and the ptype maps for most the members look nothing as ridiculous as the FV3/GFS 06z OP runs.

gefs_snow_mean_nc_33.png
 
I'd also like to note that the 06z GEFS is backing way off versus it's 00z run... and the ptype maps for most the members look nothing as ridiculous as the FV3/GFS 06z OP runs.

View attachment 7923
So otherwise, GEFS is backing off for the Midlands of South Carolina, Look Im in southern SC but I want Columbia to see something because its long overdue there.
 
So otherwise, GEFS is backing off for the Midlands of South Carolina, Look Im in southern SC but I want Columbia to see something because its long overdue there.
The 00z GEFS mean had a wide swath of much higher accumulations into Western NC/Upstate also that it backed away from this time around. Here is the image from 00z:

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Trends look to be favoring some kind of winter storm from overnight. I see distinctly most that favor are of a CAD type, but from what the Euro showed, snow is still possible at the end of beginning in N GA though upstate SC. Still a week or so to go but at least there's going to be something to watch. Just beware of the day 5 or 4 disappearance. Happens a lot and everyone melts down only to climb the cliff the next day. I do see some overrunning scenarios such as this beauty from the EPS. Sorry Birminghamnand south folks.
us_model-en-087-0_modez_2018120200_186_508_215_m18.png
 
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