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Political Thread

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Shaggy said:
Have trump supporters really thought about where their "red line" is with his behavior? What will it take for you to say enough is enough. More bragging about sexual assualt? Maybe just outright bribing other countries? Maybe more US policies that get kushner 30 million dollar loans from isreali banks? Where is it because if he gets a 2md term he is gonna test it.
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Heres an article on this.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...ahoo&utm_campaign=yahoo-non-hosted&yptr=yahoo
 
metwannabe said:
I have a serious question for anyone but especially @Rain Cold @ForsythSnow @GaWx because they mentioned compromise and working together on numerous occasions.

I'm curious, what policies and/or issues do you think there should be compromise and what should each side give up to make a true bipartisan effort?
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The first and biggest issue is fiscal discipline. Neither side has it. One side wants to spend on this or that and the other side wants to spend on that or this. Get together and compromise around military strategy and spending, fixing social security, fixing immigration and securing the borders, and then compromise on getting big business out of the government. Do all of that with the eye of fixing our fiscal imbalances. Then you can tackle social security and things like that. Also, taxes. Dems want to tax the rich, which ultimately leads to higher taxes on the middle class. Reps want to let the rich and big business skate around paying taxes. No bueno. But I don't think it matters what the tax policy is, if you don't get spending under control.
 
Rain Cold said:
The first and biggest issue is fiscal discipline. Neither side has it. One side wants to spend on this or that and the other side wants to spend on that or this. Get together and compromise around military strategy and spending, fixing social security, fixing immigration and securing the borders, and then compromise on getting big business out of the government. Do all of that with the eye of fixing our fiscal imbalances. Then you can tackle social security and things like that. Also, taxes. Dems want to tax the rich, which ultimately leads to higher taxes on the middle class. Reps want to let the rich and big business skate around paying taxes. No bueno. But I don't think it matters what the tax policy is, if you don't get spending under control.
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Taxes have to go up and spending has to go down or we are bankrupt. How long can we spend a trillion more than we make each year? I think we are at the point where it will take ten years of no spending and the same revenue just to pay the debt without counting interest.
 
Heelyes said:
Taxes have to go up and spending has to go down or we are bankrupt. How long can we spend a trillion more than we make each year? I think we are at the point where it will take ten years of no spending and the same revenue just to pay the debt without counting interest.
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Some economists claim MMT will save us -- borrowing to infinity and just ballooning the debt with no consequences.
 
Before Trumps tax cut income taxes made up 47 percent of revenue and corporate taxes were 11 percent. Now income taxes are at 50 percent and corporate is at 7.
 
Rain Cold said:
The first and biggest issue is fiscal discipline. Neither side has it. One side wants to spend on this or that and the other side wants to spend on that or this. Get together and compromise around military strategy and spending, fixing social security, fixing immigration and securing the borders, and then compromise on getting big business out of the government. Do all of that with the eye of fixing our fiscal imbalances. Then you can tackle social security and things like that. Also, taxes. Dems want to tax the rich, which ultimately leads to higher taxes on the middle class. Reps want to let the rich and big business skate around paying taxes. No bueno. But I don't think it matters what the tax policy is, if you don't get spending under control.
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I agree there is no fiscal discipline on either side (I've stated that before) and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I wish we could all agree on that point.

Interesting though that you slid immigration reform and securing the borders in there, I just don't see much compromise on that from either side. I mean what if I'm willing to give up the idea of building the wall IF the left is willing to eliminate sanctuary cities and stop allowing illegals into the country & benefiting from tax payer funded programs? Is someone on the left going to compromise if I say Ok, I'll go along with a taxpayer healthcare for all system, I'll even go along with raising taxes but you have to over turn Roe v Wade, send abortion issues back to the states and promise me no federal dollars of any kind, ever would be used to help fund any abortion?? Is there really going to be compromise there?

The reason I asked specifics is I was curious what individuals were willing to sacrifice, compromise means someone has to sacrifice something, we here all the time about compromise/sacrificing without much context about what one is actually willing to give up.
There are just some issues you can't compromise on.
 
GaWx said:
I don’t have any specifics to suggest but rather I just want to see a general desire for more compromise/working with the other side than what we have now as I think it would be better for our country’s unity. Let them figure it out. Back in the 1990s, Gingrich and Clinton worked together well. Also, as I recall, even the NE liberal Tip O’Neill and Cali conservative Reagan (my favorite Potus of my lifetime) worked together and actually were friends despite their major differences on issues. Why can’t we have more of that now? Nobody can have their own way on everything. A unified country doesn’t work that way. Now about all we have are extremes on both sides and few moderates/compromisers.
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I'm no moderate, never have been but also I'm not extreme.... of course there might be those who would label me as such. You can't expect everyone to be a moderate/compromiser. I find it to be a solid quality when one stands firm in what they believe, sure there are civil ways to discuss and debate those issues but some things just aren't compromisable (not a word I know).
 
Heelyes said:
We live in a country that is going broke and blaming poor people for it. It's the people who don't work for a living, not the 70 thousand dollar bombs we drop from 28 million dollar drones, that cost 4000 dollars a hour to fly, on people who make a dollar a day. It's the social security program that has been robbed by politicians for years not the 1.5 trillion tax cut. We can't afford to help keep our citizens healthy but we can afford to protect oil. Handouts are only handouts when they are to poor people. We give a blank check to defense contractors but want to require welfare recipients to meet standards our politicians wouldn't tolerate. I would love to see work requirements and drug tests on politicians on all levels.
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You are right about the SS program being robbed by politicians over the years, but you can thank Barry O. for DOUBLING the nation's debt in the 8 years he was in office
 
metwannabe said:
I'm no moderate, never have been but also I'm not extreme.... of course there might be those who would label me as such. You can't expect everyone to be a moderate/compromiser. I find it to be a solid quality when one stands firm in what they believe, sure there are civil ways to discuss and debate those issues but some things just aren't compromisable (not a word I know).
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I do understand that an issue like abortion is very difficult to compromise on. I'm pretty much pro-life like you although I used to be more on the pro-choice side due to ignorance of biology. (I became convinced that even 3 months was too late once I viewed an ultrasound. And then I wondered "where do you/how can you draw the line?") But I assume the exceptions are the area where there could possibly be some compromise.
 
Flurry said:
You are right about the SS program being robbed by politicians over the years, but you can thank Barry O. for DOUBLING the nation's debt in the 8 years he was in office
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No argument here about Obama but at least most of it was during a financial crisis. Trump is on pace to do the same with the greatest economy ever. If we can't balance the budget during a bubble, what happens when it pops?
 
Heelyes said:
Before Trumps tax cut income taxes made up 47 percent of revenue and corporate taxes were 11 percent. Now income taxes are at 50 percent and corporate is at 7.
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Well according to the Tax Policy Center (based off of CBO numbers) it's more like 48% income tax and 9% corporate.... but I wonder if the increase in income tax contribution is directly linked to more individuals working, which means more individuals paying taxes?
 
GaWx said:
I do understand that an issue like abortion is very difficult to compromise on. I'm pretty much pro-life like you although I used to be more on the pro-choice side due to ignorance of biology. (I became convinced that even 3 months was too late once I viewed an ultrasound. And then I wondered "where do you/how can you draw the line?") But I assume the exceptions are the area where there could possibly be some compromise.
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I think abortion is too divisive to be included in fiscal compromise. Fix the budget and then focus on social issues that have little impact on spending. Gun control is another that has little place in spending but is very decisive.
 
Heelyes said:
No argument here about Obama but at least most of it was during a financial crisis. Trump is on pace to do the same with the greatest economy ever. If we can't balance the budget during a bubble, what happens when it pops?
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When the deficit gets to a certain point, your hands are tied...You have to keep going into debt just to TRY to keep paying the bills...We have been at that point for a while, so don't put too much blame on Trump...He's a business man who understands debt...There's nothing more that he would like to do than get the country debt free
 
Heelyes said:
I think abortion is too divisive to be included in fiscal compromise. Fix the budget and then focus on social issues that have little impact on spending. Gun control is another that has little place in spending but is very decisive.
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So you agree that our tax dollars should not be utilized to fund abortions? Because, as I'm sure you are well aware, that is currently the case and as long as an item is in the budget then it must be included in fiscal compromise.
 
Heelyes said:
No argument here about Obama but at least most of it was during a financial crisis. Trump is on pace to do the same with the greatest economy ever. If we can't balance the budget during a bubble, what happens when it pops?
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A tax cut without corresponding equal or greater spending cuts is just a debt increase.
 
metwannabe said:
So you agree that our tax dollars should not be utilized to fund abortions? Because, as I'm sure you are well aware, that is currently the case and as long as an item is in the budget then it must be included in fiscal compromise.
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I do agree that tax dollars go to abortion but they aren't a significant part of the spending problem.
 
Heelyes said:
I do agree that tax dollars go to abortion but they aren't a significant part of the spending problem.
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You said it was too divisive to be considered as part of fiscal compromise not an insignificant amount.

So if we want to compromise it can't include items that are considered divisive? That's placing stipulations and isn't truly compromising. Plus as a taxpayer I have a right to voice concern on how my money is being spent and on what, we can't just say well that's too decisive so we toss.

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metwannabe said:
Well according to the Tax Policy Center (based off of CBO numbers) it's more like 48% income tax and 9% corporate.... but I wonder if the increase in income tax contribution is directly linke
metwannabe said:
You said it was too divisive to be considered as part of fiscal compromise not an insignificant amount.

So if we want to compromise it can't include items that are considered divisive? That's placing stipulations and isn't truly compromising. Plus as a taxpayer I have a right to voice concern on how my money is being spent and on what, we can't just say well that's too decisive so we toss.

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It's not like anti war taxpayers are allowed to withhold their taxes from military spending or environmentalist tax payers can keep big oil from getting theirs.
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Social issues like abortion and gun control are used to divide us to keep our focus off of the important fiscal problem this country has.
 
National defense isn't really a social issue.

But I'm glad you brought up abortion with fiscal compromise, it's a great example to show how some of us just won't compromise on some issues. If a balanced budget was presented, with cuts in spending and no tax increases but still funded Planned Parenthood (regardless of how insignificant the amount), I'd oppose it and would want my representatives to oppose it. As I mentioned I'm not willing to compromise on everything. Anywho if it's such an insignificant amount then remove all social issues with any federal funding from the budget, balance the budget and then debate what can and cannot be funded.
 
Heelyes said:
Social issues like abortion and gun control are used to divide us to keep our focus off of the important fiscal problem this country has.
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By who and how? It's not like they're fake issues, over 40 million babies have been aborted since Roe v Wade so it's a legit topic.
 
metwannabe said:
By who and how? It's not like they're fake issues, over 40 million babies have been aborted since Roe v Wade so it's a legit topic.
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So you are saying you will compromise on anything but abortion, sounds like a lot of pro choice people.
 
Heelyes said:
So you are saying you will compromise on anything but abortion, sounds like a lot of pro choice people.
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Never said I would "compromise on anything", I was using that as an example since you stated it's too divisive to be part of fiscal compromise. Actually to the contrary, there are few things I'd compromise on... have no idea how you got I'd compromise on anything but abortion from my question.
 
metwannabe said:
Never said I would "compromise on anything", I was using that as an example since you stated it's too divisive to be part of fiscal compromise. Actually to the contrary, there are few things I'd compromise on... have no idea how you got I'd compromise on anything but abortion from my question.
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Sorry I misread your post. I thought you were saying you were open to compromise, but I guess that will have to come from others.
 
metwannabe said:
I have a serious question for anyone but especially @Rain Cold @ForsythSnow @GaWx because they mentioned compromise and working together on numerous occasions.

I'm curious, what policies and/or issues do you think there should be compromise and what should each side give up to make a true bipartisan effort?
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Sorry I wasn't able to respond until now, but I think RC covered quite a bit of it. Important topics like the budget and good spending policies should be implemented, but with Keynesian economics in play, and each party over time adding a superglued brick to the wall of poor planning it's hard for things to get done without another setback. I think for the short term, congress needs to take the economic health as a sign of what to prepare for. The crash is coming sooner or later, and if congress fights and is distracted by political difference after political difference on top of the current impeachment inquiry, time will run out and we will face a hard crash that'll hurt a lot of people. As mentioned, things like abortion are a shut off for congress, but I think giving that to the states would be better since religious ties in politics vary, such as in the south. Hot button topics like that which have a vast difference between each state should be decided by that state. If the people don't like them, it's easier to vote the representative a local level out than at a statewide one. That way congress doesn't get clogged in stalemates because one thing keeps it held up.

TLDR, Financial issues need to be addressed asap and super divisive topics should be given to the states. That at least should be a starting point.
 
Funny little post on Reddit of how things have gone IRt Sondland.....

Sondland: No quid pro quo

Trump: See, my buddy here knows his stuff, and he says no quid pro quo

Every other witness: Yes quid pro quo

Congress: So, perjury?

Sondland: What's perjury?

Sondland: I googled perjury. I'd like to amend my statement to "Yes quid pro quo."

We are here

Trump: This man is an idiot/spy/liar and he doesn't know anything and also I've never met him.
 
Unless a recount can find ~5000 votes, KY will have a Dem governor... that's a state Trump carried by 30 percentage points. Also the state houses in VA swung red to blue... I don't know many who were expecting those results
 
ghost1 said:
Unless a recount can find ~5000 votes, KY will have a Dem governor... that's a state Trump carried by 30 percentage points. Also the state houses in VA swung red to blue... I don't know many who were expecting those results
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The Kentucky governor wasn’t well liked and VA has been shifting blue and was expected to go that way, neither seems surprising.
 
Arcc said:
I wonder if the public is already tiring of impeachment talk. Gonna be a massive problem for Democrats unless they can dig up something far greater than the Quid Pro angle.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...oints-from-october-poll/ar-AAJWW1Z?li=BBnb7Kz
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I can only speak for myself, but "YES"...Totally exhausted by all the fabricated impeachment talk...DEMS definitely going to need to have more than the Quid Pro angle, or this is just a waste of taxpayer money....Let the chips fall where they may
 
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