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What if he was going to withhold the money from Ukraine because Putin wanted to weaken them? Is there a line he can cross to lose your faith? It's not a coincidence that the only Republican senator to speak against him is Romney. Romney is safe until 2024, Trump can't touch him so he says what needs to be said
 
I find it satisfying knowing the people on this forum who support him the most will get the least snow.
 
The stable genius with unmatched wisdom is looking pretty stupid right now. It's bad enough we left the Kurds hanging 20 years ago in Iraq, now we are leaving them in Syria. For what? So Russia can move in? Putin must have moved on Trump like a b***h. When your famous like him you just grab them by the p***y and start kissing. Trump is getting played by Putin but why? Because the Kurds didn't help invade Normandy?
 
Turkey: Hey Yanks! We're about to invade Syria so we can finally end this civil war for the good of everyone! But it turns out some of your troops are in the way. Can you remove them please?

US: Oh cool! We were getting tired of hunkering down here anyway since we're now isolationists. That's awfully nice of you Ottoman chaps to take over for us.

Turkey: Err--No Problem at all. Glad to be of service.

US: BTW, we're kinda sort of allies with the Kurds, who are your mortal enemies, and are in control of the area your invading. That's not gonna be a problem though is it?? Promise to be cool to them as a favor to us??

Turkey: Sure Yank! We'll be sure to take extra special care of them..

US: Thanks Turks! (Sings Istanbul, Not Constantinople to celebrate)
 
While I support Kurdish independence personally, the U.S has no obligation to protect them or any non-NATO nation let alone a small stateless people group.

Its funny that the left who constantly asked the U.S to stop being the world police are now asking us to step into this situation where we have nothing to gain while also pissing off a NATO member.

We have our own people to look after, in my opinion we should cut our military by a fourth and stop all foreign aid, especially to countries like Israel.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk
 
SimeonNC said:
While I support Kurdish independence personally, the U.S has no obligation to protect them or any non-NATO nation let alone a small stateless people group.

Its funny that the left who constantly asked the U.S to stop being the world police are now asking us to step into this situation where we have nothing to gain while also pissing off a NATO member.

We have our own people to look after, in my opinion we should cut our military by a fourth and stop all foreign aid, especially to countries like Israel.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk
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I agree with you mostly, but I want to continue to support Israel, given that they're our primary, if only, allies in that region. You are right there are many factions that are constantly at war and no matter what aid/relief/support you give, it will constantly continue. I will stand with those that seek and desire freedom, hate to see what's going on in China.
 
SimeonNC said:
While I support Kurdish independence personally, the U.S has no obligation to protect them or any non-NATO nation let alone a small stateless people group.

Its funny that the left who constantly asked the U.S to stop being the world police are now asking us to step into this situation where we have nothing to gain while also pissing off a NATO member.

We have our own people to look after, in my opinion we should cut our military by a fourth and stop all foreign aid, especially to countries like Israel.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk
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well the biggest push back is not coming from the left is it......Erogodan is turning Turkey into a non secular enemy of the US....Turkey is no longer the shining beacon of what a modern secular muslim ran world can look like....basically we are seeing what happened in Iran in the 70's happening in Turkey today.

Lindsey Graham sure was not mincing words

“Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration,”

How about Nikki Haley who is a hell of a lot smarter and up on world affairs than Trump

We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend

The reports say Trump went off script and tried to wing it and got owned on a call over the weekend with Erogodan and instead of back tracking or trying to fix it he screwed the pooch.....at some point the GOP has to accept the reality that slowly dawns on more people every day that Trump is simply not capable of doing the job, he is acon man, a crook, a liar and the cons outweight the pro's of leaving him in charge, its time the Republican party steps up and admits that and starts to remedy the situation...
 
Downeastnc said:
well the biggest push back is not coming from the left is it......Erogodan is turning Turkey into a non secular enemy of the US....Turkey is no longer the shining beacon of what a modern secular muslim ran world can look like....basically we are seeing what happened in Iran in the 70's happening in Turkey today.

Lindsey Graham sure was not mincing words

“Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration,”

How about Nikki Haley who is a hell of a lot smarter and up on world affairs than Trump

We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend

The reports say Trump went off script and tried to wing it and got owned on a call over the weekend with Erogodan and instead of back tracking or trying to fix it he screwed the pooch.....at some point the GOP has to accept the reality that slowly dawns on more people every day that Trump is simply not capable of doing the job, he is acon man, a crook, a liar and the cons outweight the pro's of leaving him in charge, its time the Republican party steps up and admits that and starts to remedy the situation...
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I am well aware of the radicalization of Turkey's government under Erdogan, and the Kurdish contribution to the struggle against ISIS. That being said we have been involved in the Middle East for way too long. Intervening any more than maybe air dropping supplies to Kurdish forces will only do more harm than good and will put American lives at risk for a cause that has no immediate benefit to us. We must shift away from our needless interventionism.
 
Downeastnc said:
well the biggest push back is not coming from the left is it......Erogodan is turning Turkey into a non secular enemy of the US....Turkey is no longer the shining beacon of what a modern secular muslim ran world can look like....basically we are seeing what happened in Iran in the 70's happening in Turkey today.

Lindsey Graham sure was not mincing words

“Pray for our Kurdish allies who have been shamelessly abandoned by the Trump Administration,”

How about Nikki Haley who is a hell of a lot smarter and up on world affairs than Trump

We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria. Leaving them to die is a big mistake. #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend

The reports say Trump went off script and tried to wing it and got owned on a call over the weekend with Erogodan and instead of back tracking or trying to fix it he screwed the pooch.....at some point the GOP has to accept the reality that slowly dawns on more people every day that Trump is simply not capable of doing the job, he is acon man, a crook, a liar and the cons outweight the pro's of leaving him in charge, its time the Republican party steps up and admits that and starts to remedy the situation...
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The problem is, you are going to have a MAJOR revolt if you go in and try to remove him for being a bull in a china shop or being a dummy or saying brash and brazen things, pretending that is equivalent to criminal activity. His admin has essentially been one non-stop attempt to remove him or discredit him because of criminal behavior where no smoking-gun evidence has been provided. The Mueller investigation is a great example of this. What a disaster that was for team anti-Trump. The Kavanaugh investigation, though not directly related to Trump, is another example. Another disaster. You can't keep crying wolf and crying wolf and crying wolf and have one major investigation or set of allegations after another turn out to be failures, or you lose credibility with the next set of allegations or investigations.

You either need to PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that Trump did something seriously wrong, or don't proceed with impeachment and attempted removal. If they impeach him and try to remove him over another kabuki theater investigation or set of allegations, I'm telling you, there is going to be a major revolt and some big time unrest. Because, unless there's some hard evidence that's not circumstantial or open for interpretation, it's just going to seem like it's another cry wolf scenario.

If there's evidence that meets the above criteria, then impeach away.
 
Rain Cold said:
The problem is, you are going to have a MAJOR revolt if you go in and try to remove him for being a bull in a china shop or being a dummy or saying brash and brazen things, pretending that is equivalent to criminal activity. His admin has essentially been one non-stop attempt to remove him or discredit him because of criminal behavior where no smoking-gun evidence has been provided. The Mueller investigation is a great example of this. What a disaster that was for team anti-Trump. The Kavanaugh investigation, though not directly related to Trump, is another example. Another disaster. You can't keep crying wolf and crying wolf and crying wolf and have one major investigation or set of allegations after another turn out to be failures, or you lose credibility with the next set of allegations or investigations.

You either need to PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that Trump did something seriously wrong, or don't proceed with impeachment and attempted removal. If they impeach him and try to remove him over another kabuki theater investigation or set of allegations, I'm telling you, there is going to be a major revolt and some big time unrest. Because, unless there's some hard evidence that's not circumstantial or open for interpretation, it's just going to seem like it's another cry wolf scenario.

If there's evidence that meets the above criteria, then impeach away.
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They are not crying wolf though....Trump's team did collude with the Russians, Trump did OOJ in the Mueller probe but with Barr as the AG nothing will ever come from it as long as Trump is president....Trump is illegally using his position as president for personal gain, and I disagree there will be unrest or revolt if he is impeached, sure a few nutjobs might gather in Idaho or somewhere claiming they are going to take back America etc but it wont amount to much.......frankly most people are tired of Trump's ---- ( not the word I used lol), the only people that really think otherwise are the 30% or so of hard core Trump supporters....

Hell today the2 Ukrainians picked up fleeing the country to avoid testifying before Congress about their huge illegal money funneling operation into Trump's campaign is breaking, its one thing after another now all because Trump does not think the law applies to him. This is gonna be huge, not only did these guys funnel money from rich Ukrainians directly and illegally into Trump's campaign they also worked with Rudy to setup meetings etc for Rudy to play the Biden angle.....hell Rudy had lunch with these 2 guys yesterday hours before they attempted to flee the country.....how stupid is that....
 
Downeastnc said:
They are not crying wolf though....Trump's team did collude with the Russians, Trump did OOJ in the Mueller probe but with Barr as the AG nothing will ever come from it as long as Trump is president....Trump is illegally using his position as president for personal gain, and I disagree there will be unrest or revolt if he is impeached, sure a few nutjobs might gather in Idaho or somewhere claiming they are going to take back America etc but it wont amount to much.......frankly most people are tired of Trump's poop ( not the word I used lol), the only people that really think otherwise are the 30% or so of hard core Trump supporters....

Hell today the2 Ukrainians picked up fleeing the country to avoid testifying before Congress about their huge illegal money funneling operation into Trump's campaign is breaking, its one thing after another now all because Trump does not think the law applies to him. This is gonna be huge, not only did these guys funnel money from rich Ukrainians directly and illegally into Trump's campaign they also worked with Rudy to setup meetings etc for Rudy to play the Biden angle.....hell Rudy had lunch with these 2 guys yesterday hours before they attempted to flee the country.....how stupid is that....
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I think you are wildly overestimating the average person's understanding of the nuances of all of this as well as wildly underestimating the response that will occur unless some irrefutable evidence comes out....and not evidence that is hearsay, emerging from anonymous sources or closed-door partisan procedures. And 30% of the population is not a small number of people, by the way.

Regarding the current scandal, you're going to need some transparent legal procedure to unfold that doesn't appear to be influenced by partisanship that finds Trump and his people guilty of the things your're talking about that are currently swirling around. That's going to have to happen. If it doesn't, then it looks like another hit-job.

And the Mueller thing was a disaster. I mean Mueller, the head honcho, heralded as some great investigator, couldn't even recount his own report correctly or coherently. It was a disaster. We can feel like Trump committed treason with the Russians, but the great Robert Mueller certainly didn't establish that.

Edit: And I'm not arguing Trump's guilt or innocence. If the law, via a legal procedure, finds him guilty of something that deserves impeachment, then hit the road jack. That's fine with me. I'm more or less commenting on what you need to have in order to get there and avoid massive blow-back.
 
SimeonNC said:
I am well aware of the radicalization of Turkey's government under Erdogan, and the Kurdish contribution to the struggle against ISIS. That being said we have been involved in the Middle East for way too long. Intervening any more than maybe air dropping supplies to Kurdish forces will only do more harm than good and will put American lives at risk for a cause that has no immediate benefit to us. We must shift away from our needless interventionism.
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I disagree, we give our word we should keep it, even when it does not necessarily benefit us, our footprint troop wise is minimal in Syria and the return on investment was very high.....now its all gone and we gain nothing but allowing our enemies more control over the region.
 
Rain Cold said:
I think you are wildly overestimating the average person's understanding of the nuances of all of this as well as wildly underestimating the response that will occur unless some irrefutable evidence comes out....and not evidence that is hearsay, emerging from anonymous sources or closed-door partisan procedures. And 30% of the population is not a small number of people, by the way.

Regarding the current scandal, you're going to need some transparent legal procedure to unfold that doesn't appear to be influenced by partisanship that finds Trump and his people guilty of the things your're talking about that are currently swirling around. That's going to have to happen. If it doesn't, then it looks like another hit-job.

And the Mueller thing was a disaster. I mean Mueller, the head honcho, heralded as some great investigator, couldn't even recount his own report correctly or coherently. It was a disaster. We can feel like Trump committed treason with the Russians, but the great Robert Mueller certainly didn't establish that.

Edit: And I'm not arguing Trump's guilt or innocence. If the law, via a legal procedure, finds him guilty of something that deserves impeachment, then hit the road jack. That's fine with me. I'm more or less commenting on what you need to have in order to get there and avoid massive blow-back.
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I bet they get enough votes to impeach, then I bet there will be cheering and celebrating in the streets for oh say a good 12-24 hours before they realize impeachment doesn't mean removal. The senate will not convict and the saga will continue, either until he loses re-election or if he wins, well the sky will keep falling until 2024.
 
Rain Cold said:
I think you are wildly overestimating the average person's understanding of the nuances of all of this as well as wildly underestimating the response that will occur unless some irrefutable evidence comes out....and not evidence that is hearsay, emerging from anonymous sources or closed-door partisan procedures. And 30% of the population is not a small number of people, by the way.

Regarding the current scandal, you're going to need some transparent legal procedure to unfold that doesn't appear to be influenced by partisanship that finds Trump and his people guilty of the things your're talking about that are currently swirling around. That's going to have to happen. If it doesn't, then it looks like another hit-job.

And the Mueller thing was a disaster. I mean Mueller, the head honcho, heralded as some great investigator, couldn't even recount his own report correctly or coherently. It was a disaster. We can feel like Trump committed treason with the Russians, but the great Robert Mueller certainly didn't establish that.

Edit: And I'm not arguing Trump's guilt or innocence. If the law, via a legal procedure, finds him guilty of something that deserves impeachment, then hit the road jack. That's fine with me. I'm more or less commenting on what you need to have in order to get there and avoid massive blow-back.
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Your probably right IRT the average person understandings of things....I totally understand why the Dems are attacking this the way they are, the GOP is only interested in trying to deflect or destroy this investigation they have no interest in actually getting answers....sadly many could care less if Trump was actually guilty of these things......the Dems have to try and build a case that even the GOP senators will have trouble voting against and do that in the face of the Trump admin and GOP house members trying to stop it......its depressing that politics and party come before country but it is where we are now.
 
Downeastnc said:
Your probably right IRT the average person understandings of things....I totally understand why the Dems are attacking this the way they are, the GOP is only interested in trying to deflect or destroy this investigation they have no interest in actually getting answers....sadly many could care less if Trump was actually guilty of these things......the Dems have to try and build a case that even the GOP senators will have trouble voting against and do that in the face of the Trump admin and GOP house members trying to stop it......its depressing that politics and party come before country but it is where we are now.
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I'm afraid it's only going to get worse from here...especially if the economy starts to take a dive.
 
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