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Downeastnc said:
Why not, look Mueller even states one of the reasons he could not confirm collusion was a lot of stonewalling and even destruction of evidence by Trump and his team.....what if Trump and his people did have high levels of contact and assistance from Russia, there is a lot of smoke to suggest this and if questioning these people reveal that then we should know that as voters. I know for some of you ( general you not you you ) this wouldn't/doesnt matter, some Trumpers wont care if Trump accepted direct help from Putin, but it does matter to lots of people.....I personally think one reason why Trump is pushing the Ukraine was primary meddler in 2016 conspiracy theory is to try and take focus off Russia because he knows and wants them to help him in 2020 as well.

The real problem the Dems have is Biden is just looking terrible, he could easily beat Trump but I don't think Biden wants to run, and the other Dem front runners are to far left.....the Dems need a new moderate younger person to take over the race someone not yet in it.
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To me I believe that is the plan, nuke Biden and play for 2024 with a much more socialist candidate.
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah its embarrassing that the person who is the leader of the most powerful nation on the Earth acts like a child.....
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That's really a concern of yours? Just by reading most of your anti-Trump post it seems that demeanor is more important to you than results. I get that character is really important to you and there is nothing wrong with that but results should be a much higher priority as you can simply ignore the BS that comes from his mouth if you make the effort. I vote with my wallet and the security of my country first so I am more than happy to overlook the mans many flaws. If you are a Republican, conservative, right leaning voter (even middle of the road) you want a SOB in charge in order to have a chance at fighting what the other side of the aisle is running towards these days....Just my 2 cents
 
Sandbar said:
That's really a concern of yours? Just by reading most of your anti-Trump post it seems that demeanor is more important to you than results. I get that character is really important to you and there is nothing wrong with that but results should be a much higher priority as you can simply ignore the BS that comes from his mouth if you make the effort. I vote with my wallet and the security of my country first so I am more than happy to overlook the mans many flaws. If you are a Republican, conservative, right leaning voter (even middle of the road) you want a SOB in charge in order to have a chance at fighting what the other side of the aisle is running towards these days....Just my 2 cents
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The left leaning dems are the ones who act as children. Constantly protesting, screaming in the streets until they get their way. That's what children do. Demanding money from taxpayers so they can have what they feel entitled too, that' what children do. Going to the media fussing bc Trump wouldn't pass every piece of legislation the losers wanted, that's acting childish. To be childish, he has accomplished a lot!!!!
 
Sandbar said:
That's really a concern of yours? Just by reading most of your anti-Trump post it seems that demeanor is more important to you than results. I get that character is really important to you and there is nothing wrong with that but results should be a much higher priority as you can simply ignore the BS that comes from his mouth if you make the effort. I vote with my wallet and the security of my country first so I am more than happy to overlook the mans many flaws. If you are a Republican, conservative, right leaning voter (even middle of the road) you want a SOB in charge in order to have a chance at fighting what the other side of the aisle is running towards these days....Just my 2 cents
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I disagree you can be all those things without being a jackass.....Trump flaws are more than his demeanor the man has a long track record of treating people poorly, cheating on wives, friends, business partners, his taxes, he is well known for failure to pay contractors for small jobs, etc.....Trump's character is far below what we should accept as the leader of the USA, Trump couldn't act presidential if his life depended on it.

As for his accomplishments , what has he done really....wall, nope.....healthcare reform.....nope, immigration reform.....nope, a tax cut that many people don't even see in return for increases in spending like he is a liberal contributing to one of the fastest climbing debts in US history screwing generations to come.....check.....

The country would have gotten so much more out of a GOP controlled government those 2 years if someone else had won the nomination....in fact we probably would still have a all red government.....
 
Downeastnc said:
I disagree you can be all those things without being a jackass.....Trump flaws are more than his demeanor the man has a long track record of treating people poorly, cheating on wives, friends, business partners, his taxes, he is well known for failure to pay contractors for small jobs, etc.....Trump's character is far below what we should accept as the leader of the USA, Trump couldn't act presidential if his life depended on it.

As for his accomplishments , what has he done really....wall, nope.....healthcare reform.....nope, immigration reform.....nope, a tax cut that many people don't even see in return for increases in spending like he is a liberal contributing to one of the fastest climbing debts in US history screwing generations to come.....check.....

The country would have gotten so much more out of a GOP controlled government those 2 years if someone else had won the nomination....in fact we probably would still have a all red government.....
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Again.......Why do you care about his past relationships? In no way, shape or form does it affect you other than tugging at your emotions and feelings. As for his accomplishments it's real easy to cherry pick. Healthcare is a bastard child that is going to take a bipartisan solution so good luck with that. Immigration reform? Sorry but he has put that as Priority #1 but it can't be fixed without somebody willing to take a hardline stance and that's just a fact (of course that's racist somehow). You know of anybody that is a harder negotiator than Trump? Nope you sure don't. I have seen a nice tax cut...... Could it be more sure but the alternative in 2020 is me paying more (No thanks). Now the debt......Yeah that isn't going anywhere as long as you have people in congress writing and arguing over the bills that have been there for 30+ years. Trump can't really control that end of it but if we are going to spend money lets at least get something in return. I am career military so I am a little biased towards military spending but the fat could be cut across the board to ease "wasteful spending". Again, The President doesn't write the bills and if he shuts the Government down guess who gets blamed by the media?

You seem to think Trump is to blame for us losing the House and you are certainly entitled to that opinion. History is mostly unkind at midterms to the party in power. In "my opinion" Trump is the reason it wasn't worse than it was.

What you really need to be thankful for is that Trump has put 2 VERY SOLID judges on the SCOTUS and when he is re-elected next year he will very likely place 1 more if not 2 more in his final term. That is HUGE because the way the partisan politics is going, the high court is going to come more into play than ever in the next decade and beyond. If you are conservative as you claim to be, you best put your emotions aside, hold your nose and choose wisely
 
For all of Trump’s flaws, I can’t blame him on immigration or not removing the ACA. The GOP doesn’t have the nuts to deal with either one even if they had a super majority.
 
Sandbar said:
That's really a concern of yours? Just by reading most of your anti-Trump post it seems that demeanor is more important to you than results. I get that character is really important to you and there is nothing wrong with that but results should be a much higher priority as you can simply ignore the BS that comes from his mouth if you make the effort. I vote with my wallet and the security of my country first so I am more than happy to overlook the mans many flaws. If you are a Republican, conservative, right leaning voter (even middle of the road) you want a SOB in charge in order to have a chance at fighting what the other side of the aisle is running towards these days....Just my 2 cents
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Yeah so what If Hitler, stalin got results their demeanor shouldnt have mattered.

I've asked for red lines. When is his demeanor too much for you personally? Jailing opponents? Freezing free elections? I mean as long as he is helping your pocket sounds like you'd accept anything?
 
Arcc said:
Actually, it makes me very ill. Of all the things that are much more important, they spend the time on something feel good and is already a crime.
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This is a horrendous law! Animals are not deserving of the highest levels of protection. People should not be charged with a crime for harming animals. We eat the bloody things! Does this make us all mass murderers or complicit in the acts? This is the stupidest law ever!

This does not mean I support cruelty to animals, I strongly appose it! I think it is very unfortunate at the federal level. I'll have to side with Downeastnc on hating Trump now. I guess it's Libertarian for me in 2020!
 
weatherfide said:
This is a horrendous law! Animals are not deserving of the highest levels of protection. People should not be charged with a crime for harming animals. We eat the bloody things! Does this make us all mass murderers or complicit in the acts? This is the stupidest law ever!

This does not mean I support cruelty to animals, I strongly appose it! I think it is very unfortunate at the federal level. I'll have to side with Downeastnc on hating Trump now. I guess it's Libertarian for me in 2020!
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So you are saying that if someone shoots and kills your dog they should not be charged with a crime ? Does anyone on this board other than weatherfide actually think that it should be ok to intentionally harm a dog ?
 
Shaggy said:
Yeah so what If Hitler, stalin got results their demeanor shouldnt have mattered.

I've asked for red lines. When is his demeanor too much for you personally? Jailing opponents? Freezing free elections? I mean as long as he is helping your pocket sounds like you'd accept anything?
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Seriously!?? You are going to compare Trump to Stalin or Hitler? ALL of the politicians are ass hats and immoral. That's how and why they are attracted to the positions of power over others. FDR cheated, blatantly, on his wife, and got elected three times!!! Why? Because he was doing things the people liked over-all. Stalin and Hitler were doing things that the general populations didn't agree with. But, they were kept in the dark and threatened with death and torture if they publicly disapproved. Trump is nowhere near that threshold. I don't like his morals and manners, but it does appear that he has been effective at encouraging economic expansion in the U.S. He has been non-threatening to personal freedoms up until he signed that stupid animal cruelty law. He's not nationalizing industries or threatening to do so, either.
 
weatherfide said:
Seriously!?? You are going to compare Trump to Stalin or Hitler? ALL of the politicians are ass hats and immoral. That's how and why they are attracted to the positions of power over others. FDR cheated, blatantly, on his wife, and got elected three times!!! Why? Because he was doing things the people liked over-all. Stalin and Hitler were doing things that the general populations didn't agree with. But, they were kept in the dark and threatened with death and torture if they publicly disapproved. Trump is nowhere near that threshold. I don't like his morals and manners, but it does appear that he has been effective at encouraging economic expansion in the U.S. He has been non-threatening to personal freedoms up until he signed that stupid animal cruelty law. He's not nationalizing industries or threatening to do so, either.
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My point is when people are willing to look the other way and accept a presidents worst behaviors then this greenlights that behavior. You dont believe Hitler was putting millions of people to death because he had no support from his subordinates and atleast some level of the population?

It appears people have no desire to draw a red line for trump. He really could shoot someone and as long as that DOW is up who cares.
 
Shaggy said:
My point is when people are willing to look the other way and accept a presidents worst behaviors then this greenlights that behavior. You dont believe Hitler was putting millions of people to death because he had no support from his subordinates and atleast some level of the population?

It appears people have no desire to draw a red line for trump. He really could shoot someone and as long as that DOW is up who cares.
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We can literally draw the red line on all of them, where would that leave us? Seriously, lots of people say they didn't vote because they didn't like the choices but what recourse do we really have if all choices are horrible? Unless the people can completely unite and throw them all out, then start completely over but that's not happening.

edit: to your point about the shoot someone as long as the DOW is up... don't lump all Trump voters into that category. First of all the dude hasn't shot anyone, secondly if he did of course I would never have or ever again vote for him and thirdly, I couldn't care less about the DOW. To @Sandbar point at least we now have some solid conservative justices.

It is a little bit of a conundrum we have at this time
 
Shaggy said:
My point is when people are willing to look the other way and accept a presidents worst behaviors then this greenlights that behavior. You dont believe Hitler was putting millions of people to death because he had no support from his subordinates and atleast some level of the population?

It appears people have no desire to draw a red line for trump. He really could shoot someone and as long as that DOW is up who cares.
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To some degree, this is true. The general populace is rather dumb, en masse. Hitler is a good case study for this. However, I don't think our constitution, if followed properly, would encourage this type of corruption. When we allow any person to vote, regardless of their cognitive and critical thinking skills and understanding of macro-economics, and morality, you are going to have this problem. Raising the voting age to 25 would help. People tend to get wiser with age.
 
metwannabe said:
We can literally draw the red line on all of them, where would that leave us? Seriously, lots of people say they didn't vote because the didn't like the choices but what recourse do we really have if all choices are horrible? Unless the people can completely unite and throw them all out, then start completely over but that's not happening.
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How about not continuing voting for those horrible choices. As long as people do it they will continue to put up those horrible candidates knowing you'll vote for them.
 
Shaggy said:
How about not continuing voting for those horrible choices. As long as people do it they will continue to put up those horrible candidates knowing you'll vote for them.
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I didn't in the primaries, problem is those choices made it to the general elections... I agree stop putting up horrible options but as long as 4k people are running in the primaries a small percentage will get you to the general election and then it's difficult decision time.
 
weatherfide said:
To some degree, this is true. The general populace is rather dumb, en masse. Hitler is a good case study for this. However, I don't think our constitution, if followed properly, would encourage this type of corruption. When we allow any person to vote, regardless of their cognitive and critical thinking skills and understanding of macro-economics, and morality, you are going to have this problem. Raising the voting age to 25 would help. People tend to get wiser with age.
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When congress who is in charge of following the constitution to stamp out corruption are threatened with removal through elections then the general public is supporting the corruption. This isn't the only forum I am on and i have literally had people tell me no proof or evidence of wrongdoing will ever sway their vote for trump. Theybloterally want him for president forever. Of course this is a more moderate board than that one so the views are more extreme there.
 
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