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Political Thread

Downeastnc

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It bothers them because these Republicans are being hypocrites.
I mean this X1000.....

I find it hard to believe that somehow Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were the two best options we could find to lead this nation. It dumbfounds me that Americans who were clamoring for Obama's head suddenly see it as no big deal when Trump craps all over the Constitution too....Congress HAS to start taking back power from the executive branch they let to much slip away.
 

Sandbar

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I mean this X1000.....

I find it hard to believe that somehow Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were the two best options we could find to lead this nation. It dumbfounds me that Americans who were clamoring for Obama's head suddenly see it as no big deal when Trump craps all over the Constitution too....Congress HAS to start taking back power from the executive branch they let to much slip away.
How in the world has he crapped on the constitution that should make me stop in my tracks and reconsider why I voted for the guy?
 

Shaggy

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How in the world has he crapped on the constitution that should make me stop in my tracks and reconsider why I voted for the guy?
One is implying the Scotus should step in and stop constitutional standard of checks and balances in regards to his impeachment.
 

Shaggy

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Shaggy, we have know each other for years, but I have to disagree with you here. This was not a bad move by Trump and it could have well adverted a major loss of life down the road.... we will never know. Bottom line is, that he will not go down as the worst president ever and you are just ranting out of disgust for him. I appreciate your opinions, but this one warranted a response.
To make sure we are.on the same topic when you say this wasnt a bad move I'm assuming you mean Solimeini correct? In that case I agree. This was the right play. I've thought killing him was the right thing.
 

Sandbar

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One is implying the Scotus should step in and stop constitutional standard of checks and balances in regards to his impeachment.
This is your answer? This is what I should be concerned about? That ridiculous Democrat circus impeachment based on NOTHING of concern to this nation
 

BirdManDoomW

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Wilkes and Surry are now gun sanctuary counties. Iredell is next! I was told civil war is coming to
Virginia so we must vote republican and re-elect everyone back in!!
 

Shaggy

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This is your answer? This is what I should be concerned about? That ridiculous Democrat circus impeachment based on NOTHING of concern to this nation
Circus or not a sitting president that implies a court should side with him against what the constitution says should concern anybody. The fact it doesn't concern some trump supporters is what us anti trump Republicans are pissed about.
 

Bham 99

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Speaking for myself. What i get from publicly speaking out against trump is hope. Hope that maybe some of the former constitution loving Republicans remember what it like to have a core set of principles that don't just revolve around policy.

The belief that personal behavior matters
The belief that our debt is the biggest threat
The belief that America is the land of oppurtunity
The belief that our govt isnt our friend and limiting its reach into our lives matter
The belief that we are still a republic and not a monarchy
Pray for me, maybe I'll see the light, also pray for some snow! 😁
 

Tornadocane

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Speaking for myself. What i get from publicly speaking out against trump is hope. Hope that maybe some of the former constitution loving Republicans remember what it like to have a core set of principles that don't just revolve around policy.

The belief that personal behavior matters
The belief that our debt is the biggest threat
The belief that America is the land of oppurtunity
The belief that our govt isnt our friend and limiting its reach into our lives matter
The belief that we are still a republic and not a monarchy
long rant at the end. I just don’t buy what you’re trying to sell me.

I’m an attorney that knows more about interpreting the Constitution than 99% of all Americans. The vast majority are ignorant of the bill of rights, and those that can recite the first ten amendments cannot interpret it via Common Law. In all my studies and observations throughout life, I’ve found that a majority of Democrats and Republicans, whether experts or laypersons, will shed their principled adherence to any Constitutional amendment when it’s convenient, and then browbeat the other side with any interpretation that satisfies their bias or provides a momentary advantage for their party.

For instance, Trump is a perfect example of the constitutional double standard in American politics. In 2016, the DOJ under Obama falsified a FISA court document to compel a Judge to allow the FBI to wiretap persons in his campaign, and in turn, extended to Trump. It was based on a dossier purchased by the Clinton, and compiled by a former British Spy that collected Russian government disinformation. The FBI and Department of Justice lied numerous times, and this recently resulted in the sentencing of an Attorney. This was one of the greatest Civil Rights violation perpetrated by a Democrat Party nominee and pursued by party loyalists in the Justice Department. They literally sent people into the campaign to honey pot and spy on people close to Trump, as well as attempted to entrap Don Jr. by offering up the same kind of Russian information that was instrumental in drafting the FISA application.

Where are all the principled Democrats complaining about these massive Civil Rights violations? Some won’t even acknowledge it. I have a friend from Law School that works for the DNC that argued every little detail of this story, and it took weeks to break through to him. I basically compiled all the legal documents and had him read it in front of me, which he did cause we cautiously trust each other and share a love for political junk food. Since he’s a Criminal Defense attorney, he finally had to move on from this argument. Why? Cause most lawyers that continue advocating for a frivolous claim will feel like a fraud.

Unfortunately, we have career politicians and establishment media that contradict these civil rights violations, because they are trying to save a system. They are trying to “save the Republic” like a Jedi Knight.

I agree with the last four of your beliefs, and I think the first one hampers our ability to change a system that will prevent our shared values from being realized. You can scream and yell all you want about Trump being a corrupt and dangerous politician, but I think people should find a different perspective. The dude broke the Republican Party to the point where he is in command of pushing through any legislation, including ones establishment Republicans and Democrats like Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden hate. All the Democrats have to do is ask, which is something I said before he was elected cause I know the man’s personality. You go into Trump’s office like Kanye West and ask for a repeal of the Crimes Bill and a pardon for innocent black men abused by the system Biden created, and the man will give it to you. The same with Sanders, Warren, and Gabbard. You ask these people for some anti-establishment legislation that’s within reason, and they’ll give it to you cause it just common sense.
 

Downeastnc

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This is your answer? This is what I should be concerned about? That ridiculous Democrat circus impeachment based on NOTHING of concern to this nation
You biggest mistake is assuming that your opinion of things is the correct one....lots of people don't think that this impeachment is ridiculous, in fact just over 50% of the people in this country support removing Trump....lots of people see Trump refusing to go along with the process as mandated by the Constitution to be a huge concern....Trump has shown time and again that he thinks he can do what he wants and it should not be questioned or stopped and that he has the power to do what he wants regardless of Congress etc.
 

Downeastnc

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long rant at the end. I just don’t buy what you’re trying to sell me.

I’m an attorney that knows more about interpreting the Constitution than 99% of all Americans. The vast majority are ignorant of the bill of rights, and those that can recite the first ten amendments cannot interpret it via Common Law. In all my studies and observations throughout life, I’ve found that a majority of Democrats and Republicans, whether experts or laypersons, will shed their principled adherence to any Constitutional amendment when it’s convenient, and then browbeat the other side with any interpretation that satisfies their bias or provides a momentary advantage for their party.

For instance, Trump is a perfect example of the constitutional double standard in American politics. In 2016, the DOJ under Obama falsified a FISA court document to compel a Judge to allow the FBI to wiretap persons in his campaign, and in turn, extended to Trump. It was based on a dossier purchased by the Clinton, and compiled by a former British Spy that collected Russian government disinformation. The FBI and Department of Justice lied numerous times, and this recently resulted in the sentencing of an Attorney. This was one of the greatest Civil Rights violation perpetrated by a Democrat Party nominee and pursued by party loyalists in the Justice Department. They literally sent people into the campaign to honey pot and spy on people close to Trump, as well as attempted to entrap Don Jr. by offering up the same kind of Russian information that was instrumental in drafting the FISA application.

Where are all the principled Democrats complaining about these massive Civil Rights violations? Some won’t even acknowledge it. I have a friend from Law School that works for the DNC that argued every little detail of this story, and it took weeks to break through to him. I basically compiled all the legal documents and had him read it in front of me, which he did cause we cautiously trust each other and share a love for political junk food. Since he’s a Criminal Defense attorney, he finally had to move on from this argument. Why? Cause most lawyers that continue advocating for a frivolous claim will feel like a fraud.

Unfortunately, we have career politicians and establishment media that contradict these civil rights violations, because they are trying to save a system. They are trying to “save the Republic” like a Jedi Knight.

I agree with the last four of your beliefs, and I think the first one hampers our ability to change a system that will prevent our shared values from being realized. You can scream and yell all you want about Trump being a corrupt and dangerous politician, but I think people should find a different perspective. The dude broke the Republican Party to the point where he is in command of pushing through any legislation, including ones establishment Republicans and Democrats like Lindsey Graham and Joe Biden hate. All the Democrats have to do is ask, which is something I said before he was elected cause I know the man’s personality. You go into Trump’s office like Kanye West and ask for a repeal of the Crimes Bill and a pardon for innocent black men abused by the system Biden created, and the man will give it to you. The same with Sanders, Warren, and Gabbard. You ask these people for some anti-establishment legislation that’s within reason, and they’ll give it to you cause it just common sense.
This is exactly the problem, people are now Republicans and Democrats first and Americans second....Trumpers are excusing the actions that they vilified Obamabots for its maddening.....we have to hold them ALL to the same level of expectation, we can't expect the Dems to do it if the GOP wont, I feel at this point it is just to late though......and honestly the chances of a movement in the middle or a new party rising up anytime soon is just not there though it desperately is needed.
 

Tornadocane

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Circus or not a sitting president that implies a court should side with him against what the constitution says should concern anybody. The fact it doesn't concern some trump supporters is what us anti trump Republicans are pissed about.
Enlighten me, where in the Constitution does it say that a President can't demand that a foreign nation look into a corruption case where a
former Vice President urged Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid, and this action occurred while his crack addict son with zero energy knowledge or experience was being paid by a gas company that has been trying to influence their government to soften regulations and enforcement of laws.

Also, where in the below transcript is the disbursement of aid conditioned on any meaningful compliance by Ukrainian President?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

There's a reason the Democrats abandoned the charge of quid pro quo. They also couldn't charge him with the crime of bribery, because there isn't logical connection between the money and the favor, and the President's actions seem to be within his executive powers. What a President doesn't have the right to do is facilitate executive branch officers and attorneys to mislead a FISA court in order to wiretap a political opponent. That would be good impeachment charge.
 

Sandbar

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You biggest mistake is assuming that your opinion of things is the correct one....lots of people don't think that this impeachment is ridiculous, in fact just over 50% of the people in this country support removing Trump....lots of people see Trump refusing to go along with the process as mandated by the Constitution to be a huge concern....Trump has shown time and again that he thinks he can do what he wants and it should not be questioned or stopped and that he has the power to do what he wants regardless of Congress etc.
If you brought Reagan back from the dead and put him in Trump's place I'm pretty sure that 50% of the country would want him removed from office just because. The process, which changes as the wind blows was an absolute joke so I don't blame him for questioning it especially after dealing with the Democrats BS since Day 1 of his election
 

Sandbar

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This is exactly the problem, people are now Republicans and Democrats first and Americans second....Trumpers are excusing the actions that they vilified Obamabots for its maddening.....we have to hold them ALL to the same level of expectation, we can't expect the Dems to do it if the GOP wont, I feel at this point it is just to late though......and honestly the chances of a movement in the middle or a new party rising up anytime soon is just not there though it desperately is needed.
Just what we need. 3 parties that argue and don't get along with one another. I don't care how many parties you form, there is left, right and people who wander all over the place like that a lost person in a grocery store
 

Tornadocane

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This is exactly the problem, people are now Republicans and Democrats first and Americans second....Trumpers are excusing the actions that they vilified Obamabots for its maddening.....we have to hold them ALL to the same level of expectation, we can't expect the Dems to do it if the GOP wont, I feel at this point it is just to late though......and honestly the chances of a movement in the middle or a new party rising up anytime soon is just not there though it desperately is needed.
People like to pretend that the Republicans like Trump, but I doubt they like a guy that puts roadblocks in front of policies that are meant to benefit the corporate donors of establishment politicians. I have no doubt that Republicans are trying to push Trump towards war, but the guy is just too stubborn to walk back his anti-war rhetoric. In fact, the strike on Solemeini might be a blessing in disguise for Trump if Iraq decides to exodus U.S. Trumps.

It isn't too late. If we hold out another Trump term, or we have the chance to vote for Sanders, Gabbard, or Warren in this General Election or the next one, the establishment in both parties will have severe issues directing policies. Those people three would get my vote in the primary and general. Then you have outsider leading the two major parties so a third party has to fill in the scumbag void. Democrats are trying to sell this idea of electability of Biden to keep their people in line, but I would be so giddy about a campaign against Jim Crow Biden. The man bites peoples fingers. He's has a permanent BAC of .14. This man could be completely massacred in a 2 hour debate, and he only talked 15 minutes in the last Dem. debate cause his campaign is afraid he'll talk about kids rubbing his legs again. You know what they say when there's a flood in your way, "turn around, don't drown".

Just take a chance with Warren or Sanders. It's not like things will get out of control with an establishment coalition that's able to stop over-reaching legislation. Voters think a Sanders campaign means some crazy healthcare bill, but I see it as just a starting point for negotiations like lawyers taking a strong position for their clients. People just allow their emotions to take too much control. There's a difference between emotional intelligence and emotional outburst, and the mass media is constructed to trigger the latter with sensationalism.
 

Downeastnc

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Enlighten me, where in the Constitution does it say that a President can't demand that a foreign nation look into a corruption case where a
former Vice President urged Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid, and this action occurred while his crack addict son with zero energy knowledge or experience was being paid by a gas company that has been trying to influence their government to soften regulations and enforcement of laws.

Also, where in the below transcript is the disbursement of aid conditioned on any meaningful compliance by Ukrainian President?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

There's a reason the Democrats abandoned the charge of quid pro quo. They also couldn't charge him with the crime of bribery, because there isn't logical connection between the money and the favor, and the President's actions seem to be within his executive powers. What a President doesn't have the right to do is facilitate executive branch officers and attorneys to mislead a FISA court in order to wiretap a political opponent. That would be good impeachment charge.
None of what you posted has any factual basis.....this is a post of what you THINK or want to believe but there is zero evidence that Biden was after Shokin for his son's sake....in fact the reason the US and numerous other nations wanted Shokin gone was because he was not investigating corruption enough. Shokin had actually shelved the Burisma investigation and was bribing its owner lol.... There is nothing to investigate the Biden's for and the Ukrainians have said as much.....the entire Biden's are dirty narrative was pushed by Shokin and Firtash through Parnas and Fruman to Rudy....and they fell for it hook line and sinker....I mean what's your rationalization for Trumps admin releasing aid to the Ukraine 50 times from 2017 till they held up this last one, the former president who was in charge at the time was massively corrupt and never once did Trump hold up or demanded anything, not once.....but then suddenly when the new president who ran and won on a anti corruption platform took over and after Biden joins the race the admin is suddenly worried about corruption, its crazy to me that anyone see's that as anything other than what it is.

The Dems did not abandon the QPQ charge either what do you think the abuse of power article is about, it literally says in the actual article they passed that is due to the president using his office to solicit help from a foreign government ( Ukraine) to interfere with our election....the evidence that he actually did withhold the aid to force that is strong and anyone thinking there is no logical connection is looking through Trump colored glasses.
 
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Tornadocane

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Just what we need. 3 parties that argue and don't get along with one another. I don't care how many parties you form, there is left, right and people who wander all over the place like that a lost person in a grocery store
It's funny you made this point, because I can usually tell the winner of an election by talking to people in Walmart. It's totally scientific.

I think a third-party sort of relaxes the polarization of our political system. You have many sides to an issue, but people with moderate positions on a variety of issues will likely be pulled to the extreme opposite of their opposition with stringent adherence to the tribe's consensus. A third party would probably promote logically diverse positions, and pull other parties away from the extreme.
None of what you posted has any factual basis.....this is a post of what you THINK or want to believe but there is zero evidence that Biden was after Shokin for his son's sake....in fact the reason the US and numerous other nations wanted Shokin gone was because he was not investigating corruption enough. Shokin had actually shelved the Burisma investigation and was bribing its owner lol.... There is nothing to investigate the Biden's for and the Ukrainians have said as much.....the entire Biden's are dirty narrative was pushed by Shokin and Firtash through Parnas and Fruman to Rudy....and they fell for it hook line and sinker....I mean what's your rationalization for Trumps admin releasing aid to the Ukraine 50 times from 2017 till they held up this last one, the former president who was in charge at the time was massively corrupt and never once did Trump hold up or demanded anything, not once.....but then suddenly when the new president who ran and won on a anti corruption platform took over and after Biden joins the race the admin is suddenly worried about corruption, its crazy to me that anyone see's that as anything other than what it is.

The Dems did not abandon the QPQ charge either what do you think the abuse of power article is about, it literally says in the actual article they passed that is due to the president using his office to solicit help from a foreign government to interfere with out election....the evidence that he actually did withhold the aid to force that is strong and anyone thinking there is no logical connection is looking through Trump colored glasses.
Yeah it's my opinion that a possible crime may have been committed, because the man bragged about how he could influence a foreign government to fire a prosecutor by dangling foreign aid money. I had no idea Shokin and his prosecutors were taking bribes. If true, that would be motive, and fits a timeframe when Hunter worked for Burisma from 2014 to 2019. I don't understand how you just sail over that statement just cause the circumstances of a possible criminal investigation changes. Biden's crackhead son was working for a company that was extorted by a state prosecutor, and Biden threatened to withhold money from Ukraine until the prosecutor was fired. Biden had plausible deniability because there was another legitimate reasons for wanting the prosecutor fired, but it's possible the he helped Burisma due to his son's well-paying position on the board. That isn't such a stretch.

Did Trump want to interfere with an election or did he want to investigate possible corruption? I don't know. Seems legitimate and it's within the executive powers of the President. There was no exchange. Anything that was suggested was completely indirect, and non-affirmative of a transaction. The transcript that the Democrats identified as proof of a crime has shown nothing. If you have direct evidence, please share with me.

The only egregious executive abuse of power I've seen in the last four years was the wiretap of Donald Trump's campaign based on a FISA Warrant for which a political opponent, Hillary Clinton, provided false information in the form of a dossier collected by a foreign spy who retrieved intelligence from the Russian government. Hillary instigated the investigation by taking Russian disinformation, and the DOJ filed a FISA application that did not include a source in an attempt to mislead the Judge as to the veracity of the information. Then numerous corrections were made to extend the FISA warrant during the Obama Administration, and Attorneys knowingly added false information to convince a Judge. This is worse than anything Trump has ever done in his three years in office, and it's not even close. Yet, we have a press and the entire Democrat Party totally uninterested in this major civil rights violation, where there is ample direct evidence. I have no interest in focusing on Trump for indirect evidence of a non-crime when there is a systemic abuse of power coming from the Democrat Party that hasn't been thoroughly investigated across party lines and media. Why? Cause Trump is done in a year or five, but the Democrat Party is half our political system, and they've been trying to cover this issue up for years. Despite a court convicting a DOJ attorney, they still deny any part of the criminal conduct even happened. It can't be accepted that your entire party of experienced politicians refuse to acknowledge crimes against Trump, while they're trying to impeach him for something you feel in your heart happened.
 

Sandbar

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It's funny you made this point, because I can usually tell the winner of an election by talking to people in Walmart. It's totally scientific.

I think a third-party sort of relaxes the polarization of our political system. You have many sides to an issue, but people with moderate positions on a variety of issues will likely be pulled to the extreme opposite of their opposition with stringent adherence to the tribe's consensus. A third party would probably promote logically diverse positions, and pull other parties away from the extreme.


Yeah it's my opinion that a possible crime may have been committed, because the man bragged about how he could influence a foreign government to fire a prosecutor by dangling foreign aid money. I had no idea Shokin and his prosecutors were taking bribes. If true, that would be motive, and fits a timeframe when Hunter worked for Burisma from 2014 to 2019. I don't understand how you just sail over that statement just cause the circumstances of a possible criminal investigation changes. Biden's crackhead son was working for a company that was extorted by a state prosecutor, and Biden threatened to withhold money from Ukraine until the prosecutor was fired. Biden had plausible deniability because there was another legitimate reasons for wanting the prosecutor fired, but it's possible the he helped Burisma due to his son's well-paying position on the board. That isn't such a stretch.

Did Trump want to interfere with an election or did he want to investigate possible corruption? I don't know. Seems legitimate and it's within the executive powers of the President. There was no exchange. Anything that was suggested was completely indirect, and non-affirmative of a transaction. The transcript that the Democrats identified as proof of a crime has shown nothing. If you have direct evidence, please share with me.

The only egregious executive abuse of power I've seen in the last four years was the wiretap of Donald Trump's campaign based on a FISA Warrant for which a political opponent, Hillary Clinton, provided false information in the form of a dossier collected by a foreign spy who retrieved intelligence from the Russian government. Hillary instigated the investigation by taking Russian disinformation, and the DOJ filed a FISA application that did not include a source in an attempt to mislead the Judge as to the veracity of the information. Then numerous corrections were made to extend the FISA warrant during the Obama Administration, and Attorneys knowingly added false information to convince a Judge. This is worse than anything Trump has ever done in his three years in office, and it's not even close. Yet, we have a press and the entire Democrat Party totally uninterested in this major civil rights violation, where there is ample direct evidence. I have no interest in focusing on Trump for indirect evidence of a non-crime when there is a systemic abuse of power coming from the Democrat Party that hasn't been thoroughly investigated across party lines and media. Why? Cause Trump is done in a year or five, but the Democrat Party is half our political system, and they've been trying to cover this issue up for years. Despite a court convicting a DOJ attorney, they still deny any part of the criminal conduct even happened. It can't be accepted that your entire party of experienced politicians refuse to acknowledge crimes against Trump, while they're trying to impeach him for something you feel in your heart happened.
I am a registered independent so I could care less if you have 50 parties. When you go to the voting booth the majority will be voting for a republican, a democrat or the last place loser. I'm not saying a real moderate wouldn't be a bad idea. In fact I see the current President as just that type of guy. A realist is what he is. I don't see him as extreme at all when it comes to the "issues" but the issues that are real to me are pretty simple. Good economy, take care of the military and protect the borders.
 

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Absolutely wild that the evidence is showing that Iran shot down that plane, not that it wasn't very suspicious but to be getting confirmation from other countries now is crazy. Looks like some are already trying to blame POTUS for this, obviously everyone can have their opinion on that, but 180 civilians are dead because of ignorance and incompetence by Iran. Canadians should be outraged.
 

Downeastnc

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Absolutely wild that the evidence is showing that Iran shot down that plane, not that it wasn't very suspicious but to be getting confirmation from other countries now is crazy. Looks like some are already trying to blame POTUS for this, obviously everyone can have their opinion on that, but 180 civilians are dead because of ignorance and incompetence by Iran. Canadians should be outraged.
I mean why they were letting commercial airliners take off is beyond me, though it appears this flight was a hr late getting off......it could be a case were the AA crews were on high alert waiting for incoming US attacks and some crew got jumpy...I doubt it was done on purpose, and Iran would be wise to fess up and admit it and start restitution....sadly I suspect this is not the last time a civilian airliner will be accidently shot down...
 

Rain Cold

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I mean why they were letting commercial airliners take off is beyond me, though it appears this flight was a hr late getting off......it could be a case were the AA crews were on high alert waiting for incoming US attacks and some crew got jumpy...I doubt it was done on purpose, and Iran would be wise to fess up and admit it and start restitution....sadly I suspect this is not the last time a civilian airliner will be accidently shot down...
It probably won't turn into anything, but this is one of those things that could be the snowflake that starts the avalanche. One of those accidental, unintended things that is a big deal that nobody planned for, in an otherwise pre-scripted show. I could see how it could lead to an escalation, although it probably won't.
 

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It probably won't turn into anything, but this is one of those things that could be the snowflake that starts the avalanche. One of those accidental, unintended things that is a big deal that nobody planned for, in an otherwise pre-scripted show. I could see how it could lead to an escalation, although it probably won't.
It wont go anywhere, there is now video of the missile hitting the aircraft it was a missile, unless the video is faked or not of this incident but so far its vetting as real.....they found the nose cone off a SA 15 yesterday so it was probably shot down by the Iranian army proper and not some loose cannon with a manpad….

Iran needs to get in front of this quickly though, the irony of this happening a few days after they rubbed our faces in IA655 is the very definition of irony....
 

Rain Cold

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It wont go anywhere, there is now video of the missile hitting the aircraft it was a missile, unless the video is faked or not of this incident but so far its vetting as real.....they found the nose cone off a SA 15 yesterday so it was probably shot down by the Iranian army proper and not some loose cannon with a manpad….

Iran needs to get in front of this quickly though, the irony of this happening a few days after they rubbed our faces in IA655 is the very definition of irony....
Yeah agree on all points. Nothing will come of it. But it does illustrate a good example of the high risk of unintended consequences.
 

Downeastnc

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Yeah agree on all points. Nothing will come of it. But it does illustrate a good example of the high risk of unintended consequences.
Several countries are now turning aircraft around and not going to Tehran, the Iranians have just invited the Americans and Boeing to be involved with the investigation. The video of the first missile hitting the aircraft is confirmed, it is 100% a shoot down and the world knows....
 

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I'll jumble this quick.

The Biden issue is much worse than I thought. Past media reports absolving Biden were totally incorrect and part of disinformation campaign. Hunter Biden started on the board of Burisma weeks after Joe Biden was tasked with overseeing Ukraine, and around the same time the UK was proceeding to criminal proceedings against Burisma. He served from 2014 to 2019. Official memos written by Blue Star Company contradict Biden's story. Biden had previously served on the board of Blue Star, and Blue Star ended up bribing Ukrainian officials to drop the case against Burisma in January 2017 after that pesky State prosecutor was fired. Burisma's Attorney was the former Obama Administration Assistant Prosecutor in NY, and he confirmed that the case in the UK ended in 2015, but not the Ukrainian case against Burisma was still ongoing past March 2016. Biden put pressure on Ukraine to fire the prosecutor after the Burisma owner has his property seized by the Ukraine prosecutor, but before Hunter Biden was formally questioned about his involvement that was planned by the Prosecutor. Hunter literally spoke with numerous US and Ukrainian state officials regarding Burisma, including one Obama official who he asked why Burisma was designated a "corrupt" organization by the U.S. government. They even had John Kerry come help Hunter in Ukraine, and there's literally a picture of Obama's Assistant Secretary of Defense, Evelyn Farkas, visiting a Burisma drill site. Apparently, there are hundreds of documents providing accounts of direct dealings with Burisma that the morons at Blue Star had memorialized just in case someone came along and wanted to investigate.
https://southernwx.com/community/threads/political-thread.22/page-92

Then there's this memo by a Ukraine Prosecutor detailing a meeting with US officials in which they apologize for disseminating false information to the media about the State Prosecutor's actions regarding Burisma. There were was literally a campaign to provide false information to US and European news.

I don't what else to say. It's poorly worded write-up, but just click all the sources and the URLs to the memos, and you can find an interview by the Burisma Attorney in a Ukraine newspaper that's translated to English. There isn't a single news report that can provide a more compelling, authoritative or direct form of evidence than these written memos and e-mails. All secondary sources like Fox, CNN, NYT, or Wall Street Journal are BS, in light of the fact that they sourced U.S. and European officials disseminating false information to demonize the Ukrainian Prosecutor as corrupt. If you have something that isn't back up by a court document, witness statement, memorialized document, or video of the participants, it ain't credible.
 

Heelyes

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Yes, if the democrat government in va keeps pushing gun confiscation, civil war is likely to start there.
Do you really believe this? How do you think a civil war will play out? The government will be on the side that's being rebeled against. Good luck with that. Let's go shoot our neighbors that support gun control? Sounds like terrorism.
 

Sandbar

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Do you really believe this? How do you think a civil war will play out? The government will be on the side that's being rebeled against. Good luck with that. Let's go shoot our neighbors that support gun control? Sounds like terrorism.
Civil War? No....But local police will not go in to confiscate guns on a mass scale. The State Government answer to this is obviously the National Guard who takes an oath to support and defend the constitution, obey orders of the President and Governor according to laws, regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That is a tough position to put citizens in over politics. To think the National Guard will take the side of the Governor of Virginia is foolish. This would go straight to the Supreme Court as a 2nd amendment issue. How do you think that would turn out?
 

Downeastnc

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Civil War? No....But local police will not go in to confiscate guns on a mass scale. The State Government answer to this is obviously the National Guard who takes an oath to support and defend the constitution, obey orders of the President and Governor according to laws, regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That is a tough position to put citizens in over politics. To think the National Guard will take the side of the Governor of Virginia is foolish. This would go straight to the Supreme Court as a 2nd amendment issue. How do you think that would turn out?
The National Guard wouldn't even do it, most of those guys would laugh if they got told to go confiscate guns since the first stop would probably be most of their homes. Guns are for liberals what abortion is for the GOP....both are decided law and nothing but trouble will happen if we screw with the basis of either, the SCOTUS has them right leave them be. There is ZERO chance that any kind of large scale gun confiscation is even possible in this country mostly because we ( gun owners ) wouldn't let it happen.
 
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