Political Thread

[Downeastnc]

I think the potential issue is the conflict of interest issue that has been raised regarding the Biden's which is what will be investigated by the GOP.

"Enter Hunter Biden, who made the jaw-droppingly stupid decision to accept a post on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company founded and tainted by an oligarch widely labeled as corrupt, while his father was the leading Obama administration point person on Ukraine. Even if Hunter Biden’s sole interest had been to help Burisma adopt better governance practices and mend its ways — I’m offering that just for the sake of argument, not because there’s any evidence to support that idea — he should have known better than to lend his name to a company under investigation for money laundering." Source

"The chronology of the Bidens' transactions raises serious questions:

April 15, 2014: Burisma sends Hunter Biden's business partner, Devon Archer, $112,000.
April 16, 2014: Archer visits Vice President Biden at the White House.
April 21, 2014: Vice President Biden arrives in Ukraine bearing millions in aid for the Ukraine energy industry.
May 12, 2014: Hunter Biden joins Burisma's board.
February 2015: Ukrainian authorities seize the property of Burisma's CEO and go after unpaid taxes.
March 2016: Biden demands that Ukraine's top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, be fired, and threatens to hold up $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees.

The Biden campaign claims the vice president demanded Shokin's dismissal for being soft on corruption, and the media gladly parrot that claim. It defies common sense.

Though accounts vary about how aggressively Shokin investigated Burisma, Shokin himself is clear. In an email to The Washington Post, he blamed Vice President Biden for getting him axed, saying that Biden's "motives" were "the activities of Hunter Biden, and the investigators on his tail.

"Profiles in Corruption," a new book by Peter Schweizer, documents how Biden's family and friends leveraged his position to cash in with deals in China, Iraq, Kazakhstan and Latin America. Joe Biden's suspect dealings in Ukraine were not out of character." Source

So while there isn't any proof here of corruption there are some concerns that would warrant an investigation into what was going on, especially with the reputation Burisma had for being corrupt. The very nature of someone joining a company like Burisma, known for corruption and money laundering practices, should raise some serious red flags and at the very least there is a potential conflict of interest issue.

I completely agree that Hunter should have not joined Burisma and that it is aconflict of interest.....but how is that different than what Trumps kds are doing right now. Ivanka has gotten numerous Chinese patents, and Jared has this little gem surely we should investigate that right it sure looks suspicious right?

Jared Kushner's Company Curiously Raked in $90 Million Since He Joined the White House

His real estate company, Cadre, has quintupled in value since 2017.

www.gq.com

The real estate company Cadre, owned by Kushner, his brother, Joshua, and a friend, has taken in $90 million in investments from Saudi Arabia and a "Goldman Sachs entity" in the Cayman Islands. Cadre is also one of the properties that Kushner initially forgot to put on his security-clearance application when he joined the Trump administration. Kushner co-founded Cadre in 2014, and despite slow growth in its first couple years, its value has quintupled since 2017, when Kushner joined the White House. The company allows investors to pool money together to buy real estate, and it now manages about $522 million to buy properties across the U.S.


As for Shokin it does not defy common sense, its well documented.....Shokin is and was a crook, he had like a 3% approval rating and was still protected because the Ukrainian president was also corrupt and they worked together. Find me proof that Shokin was tough on corruption.....

Also you information is incorrect, Shokin was fired in March of 2016 but Biden made the 6 hr threat to withhold the aid sometime in Dec 2015 so 3 months passed in which no aid was withheld. The statement was made to express how serious the US was that Shokin be removed....so many people actually believe that Biden made the threat and Shokin was fired in 6 hrs.....that's not what happened at all....

Why Was Ukraine's Top Prosecutor Fired? The Issue At The Heart Of The Dispute Gripping Washington

U.S. President Donald Trump asserts that Joe Biden pushed for the ouster of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor to quash a probe into a Burisma, a gas company with Biden's son on its board. Officials and anti-corruption activists in Kyiv say Prosecutor-General Viktor Shokin had shelved the case long...

www.rferl.org

 

[whatitdo]

This is unrelated to the current discussion, but my God what a disgraceful showing from the DNC in regards to the iowa caucus debacle. Releasing incomplete polls in petes favor so he can run around doing victory laps based on a metric that doesn’t even matter (bernie is now only 3 SDEs away). Him and bernie will get same national delegates and bernie will have won popular vote. Trump has every right to be a winner from this fcking disgrace as the DNC is just proving his point as to how corrupt they are. Unbelievable

 

[snowlover91]

I completely agree that Hunter should have not joined Burisma and that it is aconflict of interest.....but how is that different than what Trumps kds are doing right now. Ivanka has gotten numerous Chinese patents, and Jared has this little gem surely we should investigate that right it sure looks suspicious right?

Jared Kushner's Company Curiously Raked in $90 Million Since He Joined the White House

His real estate company, Cadre, has quintupled in value since 2017.

www.gq.com

The real estate company Cadre, owned by Kushner, his brother, Joshua, and a friend, has taken in $90 million in investments from Saudi Arabia and a "Goldman Sachs entity" in the Cayman Islands. Cadre is also one of the properties that Kushner initially forgot to put on his security-clearance application when he joined the Trump administration. Kushner co-founded Cadre in 2014, and despite slow growth in its first couple years, its value has quintupled since 2017, when Kushner joined the White House. The company allows investors to pool money together to buy real estate, and it now manages about $522 million to buy properties across the U.S.


As for Shokin it does not defy common sense, its well documented.....Shokin is and was a crook, he had like a 3% approval rating and was still protected because the Ukrainian president was also corrupt and they worked together. Find me proof that Shokin was tough on corruption.....

Also you information is incorrect, Shokin was fired in March of 2016 but Biden made the 6 hr threat to withhold the aid sometime in Dec 2015 so 3 months passed in which no aid was withheld. The statement was made to express how serious the US was that Shokin be removed....so many people actually believe that Biden made the threat and Shokin was fired in 6 hrs.....that's not what happened at all....

Why Was Ukraine's Top Prosecutor Fired? The Issue At The Heart Of The Dispute Gripping Washington

U.S. President Donald Trump asserts that Joe Biden pushed for the ouster of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor to quash a probe into a Burisma, a gas company with Biden's son on its board. Officials and anti-corruption activists in Kyiv say Prosecutor-General Viktor Shokin had shelved the case long...

www.rferl.org

Oh I'm sure the House will be investigating all of his children if they aren't already. But I'm not talking about Trump or his children, I'm talking about Biden and Hunter so let's get back to the topic.

I think it's pretty interesting that Shokin himself "blamed Vice President Biden for getting him axed, saying that Biden's "motives" were "the activities of Hunter Biden, and the investigators on his tail." While that in and of itself isn't proof it does raise flags.. he could be flat out lying but there could also truth behind what he said. Regardless, the point is that there are legitimate concerns such as conflicts of interest, Shokin's statement, how much Hunter was paid, the reputation of Burisma as a corrupt organization, etc. that could warrant an investigation. I'm not a fan of all these investigations into various political opponents as I think it sets a dangerous precedent. However, I can see why a person would want Biden investigated due to the concerns of Burisma being known for corruption and money laundering, and the conflict of interest issue noted.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

This is just one person out of many that are saying the same things. When these things were said it was way before Trump was elected this guy actually passed away a few years ago.

Yeah, this is wild. There is an awesome movement going on hence the turmoil we are in now. Good will win. TRUTH will prevail. God bless America!

 

[Downeastnc]

Oh I'm sure the House will be investigating all of his children if they aren't already. But I'm not talking about Trump or his children, I'm talking about Biden and Hunter so let's get back to the topic.

I think it's pretty interesting that Shokin himself "blamed Vice President Biden for getting him axed, saying that Biden's "motives" were "the activities of Hunter Biden, and the investigators on his tail." While that in and of itself isn't proof it does raise flags.. he could be flat out lying but there could also truth behind what he said. Regardless, the point is that there are legitimate concerns such as conflicts of interest, Shokin's statement, how much Hunter was paid, the reputation of Burisma as a corrupt organization, etc. that could warrant an investigation. I'm not a fan of all these investigations into various political opponents as I think it sets a dangerous precedent. However, I can see why a person would want Biden investigated due to the concerns of Burisma being known for corruption and money laundering, and the conflict of interest issue noted.

The thing is the Ukrainian prosecutors did look into it and found nothing....and they have said as much....several times.

Read up about Firtash and his links to Shokin and Parnas….

Oligarch Firtash linked to Giuliani pals' gas deals and Biden research

A Ukrainian oligarch who is fighting extradition to the U.S. may figure in both the dirt digging and the gas deals pursued by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.

www.nbcnews.com

"Firtash's lawyers in Vienna were the ones who obtained an affidavit from a fired Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, that Giuliani and other Trump allies have used as a basis to accuse Biden of corruption. Shokin is the prosecutor whom then Vice President Joe Biden urged be removed, in keeping with U.S. policy at the time that viewed him as a bad actor."

And guess who Firtash's lawyers are.....Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova both deeply tied to Trump and the GOP...

"Toensing and her husband, Joe diGenova, were talking about Ukraine and Trump long before they began representing Firtash in July. Once briefly considered for a role as Trump's personal lawyers in the Russia investigation, they say they sought to represent "Ukrainian whistleblowers" who had information about misdeeds by Democrats, including Vice President Biden. They said they were blocked from going to Ukraine by the then-U.S. ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, whom Toensing said "we all wanted to get rid of."

But Firtash was able to help Trump try to discredit the Bidens, through the Shokin affidavit, which the former prosecutor said he made "at the request of lawyers acting for Dmytro Firtash."

So the Shokin affidavit you are referencing was created at the request of these two lawyers with deep ties to Trump.....a affidavit from a disgraced corrupt official with a grudge against Biden, all tied together by a Ukrainian oligarch whois fighting extradition to the US and is the one supplying Parnas and Fruman with the money they use to illegally influence GOP politicians and for which they now are awaiting trial for.

This Trump/Rudy Ukraine scandal is just getting started my friend we have seen just the tip of the iceberg....

 

[snowlover91]

The thing is the Ukrainian prosecutors did look into it and found nothing....and they have said as much....several times.

Read up about Firtash and his links to Shokin and Parnas….

Oligarch Firtash linked to Giuliani pals' gas deals and Biden research

A Ukrainian oligarch who is fighting extradition to the U.S. may figure in both the dirt digging and the gas deals pursued by Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman.

www.nbcnews.com

"Firtash's lawyers in Vienna were the ones who obtained an affidavit from a fired Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, that Giuliani and other Trump allies have used as a basis to accuse Biden of corruption. Shokin is the prosecutor whom then Vice President Joe Biden urged be removed, in keeping with U.S. policy at the time that viewed him as a bad actor."

And guess who Firtash's lawyers are.....Victoria Toensing and Joseph diGenova both deeply tied to Trump and the GOP...

"Toensing and her husband, Joe diGenova, were talking about Ukraine and Trump long before they began representing Firtash in July. Once briefly considered for a role as Trump's personal lawyers in the Russia investigation, they say they sought to represent "Ukrainian whistleblowers" who had information about misdeeds by Democrats, including Vice President Biden. They said they were blocked from going to Ukraine by the then-U.S. ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, whom Toensing said "we all wanted to get rid of."

But Firtash was able to help Trump try to discredit the Bidens, through the Shokin affidavit, which the former prosecutor said he made "at the request of lawyers acting for Dmytro Firtash."

So the Shokin affidavit you are referencing was created at the request of these two lawyers with deep ties to Trump.....a affidavit from a disgraced corrupt official with a grudge against Biden, all tied together by a Ukrainian oligarch whois fighting extradition to the US and is the one supplying Parnas and Fruman with the money they use to illegally influence GOP politicians and for which they now are awaiting trial for.

This Trump/Rudy Ukraine scandal is just getting started my friend we have seen just the tip of the iceberg....

Again, the issues with Hunter could warrant a US investigation into the matter over his ties to Burisma, known for money laundering and corruption and the conflict of interest issue. The Senate announced they are going to start investigating so we will find out more info in the long run.

 

[Downeastnc]

Again, the issues with Hunter could warrant a US investigation into the matter over his ties to Burisma, known for money laundering and corruption and the conflict of interest issue. The Senate announced they are going to start investigating so we will find out more info in the long run.

They have had years to do this lol.....and its only been a big deal since daddy started running for president....but hey they can investigate all they want...

 

[snowlover91]

They have had years to do this lol.....and its only been a big deal since daddy started running for president....but hey they can investigate all they want...

Most likely we will see a model adopted in the coming years of every president being heavily investigated by the party that controls the House and/or Senate. I'm not a fan of that but that's where we are heading.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

They have had years to do this lol.....and its only been a big deal since daddy started running for president....but hey they can investigate all they want...

They shut the investigations down. The deep state wouldn't allow it. Ukraine tried to get 2016 election meddling info looked at but doors shut in their face. Until Rudy..It will all become clear what has happened. Takes time to dissemble the deep state.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

People actually believe those responsible for the attempted coup [coup attempt] of a duly elected sitting US President will go unpunished?
End to our Constitutional Republic?
No equal justice under the law?
No accountability?
Escape unscathed?
Buckle up!
Q

 

[tramadoc]

Biden is the gift that keeps on giving

Biden is like the grandpa with dementia. Everyone laughs and jokes until they walk into the dining room and he’s stirring the gravy with his pecker.

 

[EV/WS]

Fantastic read.....

Trump Just Became Reagan — and Pelosi Became a Joke

Trump is Reagan. He’s aiming for a Reagan/Mondale-like landslide. And all Democrats have is that image of a petulant, bitter, childish Nancy Pelosi.

www.newsmax.com

 

[Shaggy]

What’s so comical about all of this is that they just tried to impeach a president on he said she said or I thought he meant this on the call when I heard it. Yet we have Sleepy Joe on video saying it in his own words and now they want us to believe he didn’t really mean it the way he said it. For the sake of America this clown show has got to stop.

Joe acting as a legitimate foreign policy maker as a representative of the USA in a bipartisan way to push for the firing of Shokin is 1 millions times more legit than trump using aid to personally benefit himself while using shadow diplomacy by people who are not even government officials.

It's not in the same ball park, city state, country or universe.

Fantastic read.....

Trump Just Became Reagan — and Pelosi Became a Joke

Trump is Reagan. He’s aiming for a Reagan/Mondale-like landslide. And all Democrats have is that image of a petulant, bitter, childish Nancy Pelosi.

www.newsmax.com

Um I won't even open anything that compares him to Reagan. It's a waste of time.

 

[Sandbar]

Fantastic read.....

Trump Just Became Reagan — and Pelosi Became a Joke

Trump is Reagan. He’s aiming for a Reagan/Mondale-like landslide. And all Democrats have is that image of a petulant, bitter, childish Nancy Pelosi.

www.newsmax.com

It was a great read. Thank you for posting! Im sure the "true conservatives" whatever that means will be along at some point to deny it.....with that being said, I agree that a landslide is coming and a part of that incoming slaughter is due to the smug arrogance and stupidity of the democrat leadership

 

[whatitdo]

This is absolutely true. Every single second of it. And as much hate as fox news gets (imo, mostly justifiable tbh), i can say i haven't heard a 100% completely true clip on corporate media in a long time.

 

[NCSNOW]

New Gallup Pole:
Finds that 90% of people are very satisified with their lives

Also they are as high about the economy as they have been since 2000.

"If its the economy stupid" gonna be 4 more years.

 

[ForsythSnow]

"If its the economy stupid" gonna be 4 more years.

Chances of a recession beginning in the next 4 years seem very high from how I see it. Then we won't be seeing that phrase as much.

 

[EV/WS]

A simple observation. Any political thread can quickly become VERY ugly. I, personally cant thank everyone enough for being civil and cordial towards each other. Perhaps, its our southern thing. Treat each other with kindness and respect. You may not believe this, but I respect everyone’s opinion wether I agree or not. We’re all human and American first. Again, thank y’all. ?❤

 

[Sandbar]

Chances of a recession beginning in the next 4 years seem very high from how I see it. Then we won't be seeing that phrase as much.

Its certainly possible but recessions dont typically last very long on average if you arent Barack Obama. We will probably see a correction during Trump's second term but I would fully expect any recession to rebound rather quickly.....just my opinion

 

[Shaggy]

Chances of a recession beginning in the next 4 years seem very high from how I see it. Then we won't be seeing that phrase as much.

Sooner if China has a prolonged shutdown due to the spreading of the coronavirus.

 

[NCSNOW]

Its certainly possible but recessions dont typically last very long on average if you arent Barack Obama. We will probably see a correction during Trump's second term but I would fully expect any recession to rebound rather quickly.....just my opinion

Exactly and over the course of that second term Trump will continue appointing federal judges to the highest courts that interput the constitution literally and make decisions off of it and expand school choice.
The liberal progressive socialist movement has advanced their agenda via 3 main methods over the past 6+ decades. Main Stream Media, Acedemia (Public Education Indoctrination), liberal courts (judges thay legislate from the bench).

Its funny , Trump is having so much success with de-regulation, trade deals,the economy etc. Its not Rocket Science how hes done it. Hes just using common sense and making decessions that are really no brainers. Hes able to do that cause hes not one of them. The swamp crowd,politicians. He has no allegience to lobbyist, no need for power, money. Just doing whats best for American people. Doesnt need praise from anyone, espeacilly main stream media .
He has an ego , enormous , yes. But he wont sit back and take blows from the left,media. He meets them head on. It's ugly decorrum I get it. But its the only way you stand up to this crowd, they truly hate him with a venom and its not because of his decorum. This excuse doesnt fly anymore folks. That is a smoke screen, because he has made all of them come out of their turtle shell and expose them for who they truly are on both sides of the isle. Bainer, Romney,McCain,Ryan, Media, DNC. They attack him,his family, try to remove him from office when he commited no crimes, no collusion, all made up law breaking coupe attempts through Hillary financed fusion dossiers, Bogus whistle blower coached by Schiff. After all the conspiring, hes still standing stronger than ever while the democrats and deep state have been openly expossed.

There is a line in the sand for this 2020 election. The future of our country remaining a democratic,capitalist country governed by laws and the constitution hinges on the choice that is made in November. You can officially turn it over to the socialist,progressive,liberal Democratic party if thats the choice you choose to make. Everyone gets their vote. But be warned, there is no turning back if we take one more step down this road. If Globalisim, Socialism, are what you want as a voter,then Trump is not your candidate. If you beleive in Capitilism ,Democracy, the Constitution then Trump, Maga crowd welcomes your vote.

 

[Rain Cold]

Sooner if China has a prolonged shutdown due to the spreading of the coronavirus.

There is no way it's not going to affect the global economy as-is, much less if/when they stay shut down longer than they're currently saying. High yield debt is about to become a mess.

 

[NCSNOW]

There is no way it's not going to affect the global economy as-is, much less if/when they stay shut down longer than they're currently saying. High yield debt is about to become a mess.

We actually have gotten a big bump because US companies who purchase fabricated parts from our company and from China, have come runing to us to meet the void that has been created because of this very situation. Now this is highly likely temporaily, and The US , really every economy is on thin ice right now, to prevent this situation coming to its shores on the magnitude/scale China is dealing with currently.

 

[EV/WS]

There is no way it's not going to affect the global economy as-is, much less if/when they stay shut down longer than they're currently saying. High yield debt is about to become a mess.

Agreed. However, theirs know way “If” this should occur, how can it be pegged on our POTUS?
I’m a bit concerned that democrats are Rooting for a recession. Please, do tell this isn’t the case.

 

[EV/WS]

If a global recession should occur, I believe POTUS has us in the best position to ride it out. We should all agree on that. At least that’s my hope.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

Something is up with the whole virus and China thing....Don't know what yet but something.....Who would believe anything China says anyway....

 

[Bham 99]

Something is up with the whole virus and China thing....Don't know what yet but something.....Who would believe anything China says anyway....

The doctor that brought all the attention at first of this disease died today or yesterday.. seems pretty fishy to me he was in trouble with the government for making videos telling everybody how it really was over there... he was young and healthy otherwise.. most of the ones that have died so far were elderly or their immune systems were weak for whatever reason.

 

[ForsythSnow]

If a global recession should occur, I believe POTUS has us in the best position to ride it out. We should all agree on that. At least that’s my hope.

We better be letting off the gas then for government spending or else when we hit that wall it's going to be a lot more intense.

Something is up with the whole virus and China thing....Don't know what yet but something.....Who would believe anything China says anyway....

I do not think conspiracy nor should anyone. China does have a government that likes to keep everything under cover, but mainly just not to look bad. Having a massive virus outbreak due to poor living conditions in a country you call great is an embarrassment, so if that info spreads outside the country then it makes them look weak compared to western civilization. I'm pretty sure it's that simple.

 

[Sandbar]

Agreed. However, theirs know way “If” this should occur, how can it be pegged on our POTUS?
I’m a bit concerned that democrats are Rooting for a recession. Please, do tell this isn’t the case.

Oh they (Democrats) are rooting for one. Misery is what fuels these people. They hate Donald Trump a hell of a lot more than they love their country. At least they have proven as much to me.......

 

[Shaggy]

Something is up with the whole virus and China thing....Don't know what yet but something.....Who would believe anything China says anyway....

You.....if they said they had dirt on Obama, biden, or hillary.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

You.....if they said they had dirt on Obama, biden, or hillary.

Nah...We don't need China for the proofs. The careless gave it to us themselves. The cover up is what's going to gettem'. FISA goes both ways...

 

[Rain Cold]

Agreed. However, theirs know way “If” this should occur, how can it be pegged on our POTUS?
I’m a bit concerned that democrats are Rooting for a recession. Please, do tell this isn’t the case.

Yeah, I don't see how a virus would be blamed on the president. However, the response would be. Just recall Katrina and Bush. We'll see.

 

[Rain Cold]

Something is up with the whole virus and China thing....Don't know what yet but something.....Who would believe anything China says anyway....

The numbers and messaging coming out of both China and the WHO (and most governments for that matter) don't square with the actions that we're seeing various countries take. This thing is erroneously compared to the flu, which circles the globe every year and affects millions. nCov is just getting started. If it REALLY were nothing worse than the flu, you would not see the measures that all of these sovereigns are taking. Just think about what you see and compare it with what you're hearing. Ignore everything else and think about that. Those two things do not square.

I'm not saying there's some massive conspiracy to secretly kill a large percentage of the population or that this is some bioweaopon (although there is enough evidence to doubt the official story of it coming through a bat to a snake and into a communicable human disease and to investigate whether or not it did come from their BL4 lab). But what governments do is say nothing to see here. Then, there's only a little something to see. Move along. Then, ok, you can take a look, but it's really nothing. Then, "move in a single file line, and walk slowly." Then, "shelter in place." This is just how the messaging is going to work. And if you publicly go against that, you will be dismissed as a fearmongerer or *gasp* a conspiracy theorist.

Someone has created a quadratic formula-based model that predicts the daily numbers (of infections and deaths) that China releases. The "official" numbers have been tracking virtually on top of that model's predictions. This simply means that the numbers coming out of China can't be trusted, which we should already know.

Then there's the cruise ship that has a couple of thousand people on it. As of yesterday 273 were tested and 60 of them had it, with more results pending. Not sure if they tested the remainder of the passengers. They remain quarantined indefinitely. Sounds very infectious.

I'm not saying to panic or to glom onto every conspiracy theory you can imagine, but if it starts to show up in pockets in other countries and seems to be spreading, and/or if it starts to show up in pockets here, by the time you realize what everyone else realizes, it will be too late to get the things you will probably want to have. It's wise to observe what people are doing now (not what they're saying), and think about what you might want or need in the event it comes here. I believe it will, eventually. We just really don't know how bad it will be. Hopefully, over here, it will be no worse than the regular flu. But we don't know that for sure, and hope often keeps people from making wise choices.

 

[Wildboutsnow]

The numbers and messaging coming out of both China and the WHO (and most governments for that matter) don't square with the actions that we're seeing various countries take. This thing is erroneously compared to the flu, which circles the globe every year and affects millions. nCov is just getting started. If it REALLY were nothing worse than the flu, you would not see the measures that all of these sovereigns are taking. Just think about what you see and compare it with what you're hearing. Ignore everything else and think about that. Those two things do not square.

I'm not saying there's some massive conspiracy to secretly kill a large percentage of the population or that this is some bioweaopon (although there is enough evidence to doubt the official story of it coming through a bat to a snake and into a communicable human disease and to investigate whether or not it did come from their BL4 lab). But what governments do is say nothing to see here. Then, there's only a little something to see. Move along. Then, ok, you can take a look, but it's really nothing. Then, "move in a single file line, and walk slowly." Then, "shelter in place." This is just how the messaging is going to work. And if you publicly go against that, you will be dismissed as a fearmongerer or *gasp* a conspiracy theorist.

Someone has created a quadratic formula-based model that predicts the daily numbers (of infections and deaths) that China releases. The "official" numbers have been tracking virtually on top of that model's predictions. This simply means that the numbers coming out of China can't be trusted, which we should already know.

Then there's the cruise ship that has a couple of thousand people on it. As of yesterday 273 were tested and 60 of them had it, with more results pending. Not sure if they tested the remainder of the passengers. They remain quarantined indefinitely. Sounds very infectious.

I'm not saying to panic or to glom onto every conspiracy theory you can imagine, but if it starts to show up in pockets in other countries and seems to be spreading, and/or if it starts to show up in pockets here, by the time you realize what everyone else realizes, it will be too late to get the things you will probably want to have. It's wise to observe what people are doing now (not what they're saying), and think about what you might want or need in the event it comes here. I believe it will, eventually. We just really don't know how bad it will be. Hopefully, over here, it will be no worse than the regular flu. But we don't know that for sure, and hope often keeps people from making wise choices.

Good points. As far as observing, my first red flag tag in my brain, to hold for future analysis is why would anybody be aloud to go to and from China as long as they did before stopping it. And of course why would we be relying on them to tell us anything. Especially with tariffs and Trump having the upper hand in a way. Optics are very important to them. Someone even mentioned it could be about shutting down the protest movement etc. Certainly something to watch and no telling what is really going on. I do know panic and fear is a powerful tool and used to control (for the good or the bad). It is confusing too when a guy here has a wife and daughter there and seems so calm when probed about fear. The interviewers were almost disappointed that they couldn't get him riled up..Little odd. Then you have people there reporting back channels to here about how horrific and sketchy and of course no one would really know if they are credible either. Interesting all the way around.

 

[Arcc]

The numbers and messaging coming out of both China and the WHO (and most governments for that matter) don't square with the actions that we're seeing various countries take. This thing is erroneously compared to the flu, which circles the globe every year and affects millions. nCov is just getting started. If it REALLY were nothing worse than the flu, you would not see the measures that all of these sovereigns are taking. Just think about what you see and compare it with what you're hearing. Ignore everything else and think about that. Those two things do not square.

I'm not saying there's some massive conspiracy to secretly kill a large percentage of the population or that this is some bioweaopon (although there is enough evidence to doubt the official story of it coming through a bat to a snake and into a communicable human disease and to investigate whether or not it did come from their BL4 lab). But what governments do is say nothing to see here. Then, there's only a little something to see. Move along. Then, ok, you can take a look, but it's really nothing. Then, "move in a single file line, and walk slowly." Then, "shelter in place." This is just how the messaging is going to work. And if you publicly go against that, you will be dismissed as a fearmongerer or *gasp* a conspiracy theorist.

Someone has created a quadratic formula-based model that predicts the daily numbers (of infections and deaths) that China releases. The "official" numbers have been tracking virtually on top of that model's predictions. This simply means that the numbers coming out of China can't be trusted, which we should already know.

Then there's the cruise ship that has a couple of thousand people on it. As of yesterday 273 were tested and 60 of them had it, with more results pending. Not sure if they tested the remainder of the passengers. They remain quarantined indefinitely. Sounds very infectious.

I'm not saying to panic or to glom onto every conspiracy theory you can imagine, but if it starts to show up in pockets in other countries and seems to be spreading, and/or if it starts to show up in pockets here, by the time you realize what everyone else realizes, it will be too late to get the things you will probably want to have. It's wise to observe what people are doing now (not what they're saying), and think about what you might want or need in the event it comes here. I believe it will, eventually. We just really don't know how bad it will be. Hopefully, over here, it will be no worse than the regular flu. But we don't know that for sure, and hope often keeps people from making wise choices.

I disagree to an extent. Governments around the world are scared due to how easily people believe everything and how fast a pandemic of fear spreads.(go check out twitter) With this thing being in the same family as SARS, people are freaking out. The Swine flu had the same reaction when it was in Mexico, the difference being it got into the US fast and was realized that it wasn't much to worry about.

China on the other hand has alot to lose. The tariffs have hit them hard and anything else could tip them over. They are also trying to maintain the thought that they are on par with western nations in healthcare and government services.

I do believe they are under reporting cases though. This stuff is probably way more widespread across the globe, yet probably just thought of as a strong cold or mild flu.

 

[Rain Cold]

I disagree to an extent. Governments around the world are scared due to how easily people believe everything and how fast a pandemic of fear spreads.(go check out twitter) With this thing being in the same family as SARS, people are freaking out. The Swine flu had the same reaction when it was in Mexico, the difference being it got into the US fast and was realized that it wasn't much to worry about.

China on the other hand has alot to lose. The tariffs have hit them hard and anything else could tip them over. They are also trying to maintain the thought that they are on par with western nations in healthcare and government services.

I do believe they are under reporting cases though. This stuff is probably way more widespread across the globe, yet probably just thought of as a strong cold or mild flu.

Makes sense, but I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me over? That it's way worse than the flu? We really have no way of knowing that. But watching every country start to set up quarantine facilities and field hospitals preemptively is something we never saw with SARS, swine flu, or H1N1 or H5N1.

 

[Arcc]

Makes sense, but I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me over? That it's way worse than the flu? We really have no way of knowing that. But watching every country start to set up quarantine facilities and field hospitals preemptively is something we never saw with SARS, swine flu, or H1N1 or H5N1.

That at this point it's way worse than the flu. At this point in every country besides China there has been two deaths and I've read the both had bad pre-existing conditions and I've read accounts of people who had it, really didn't have symptoms of even the flu. One guy said besides a light fever and sore throat he didn't even know he was sick. Sure, it may get much worse and be a big problem, but so far it's been like the flu at most in Countries not China and really everywhere but the City of Wohan and surrounding province.

Edit: The cruise ship in Japan is actually a good test. If there is little severe illness there, it will probably be more if a nuisance than a threat.

 

[Rain Cold]

That at this point it's way worse than the flu. At this point in every country besides China there has been two deaths and I've read the both had bad pre-existing conditions and I've read accounts of people who had it, really didn't have symptoms of even the flu. One guy said besides a light fever and sore throat he didn't even know he was sick. Sure, it may get much worse and be a big problem, but so far it's been like the flu at most in Countries not China and really everywhere but the City of Wohan and surrounding province.

I don't know for sure whether it's worse than the flu or not worse than the flu. But if it isn't worse than the flu, at least on some level, then you have to stipulate that the Chinese are either A - Stupid for shutting down their whole economy over something that isn't worse than the flu or B - The flu has never made it to China, and this is the first time they've ever dealt with a contagious virus. You also have to stipulate that all these other countries, including the US, are way overreacting by issuing quarantines for the first time in 50 years and banning travel and preparing emergency medical facilities and such. Those things can't be explained away as reasonable activities for something that's no worse than the common flu.

Regarding the patients, some experience light symptoms. Others die. Fortunately, the death rate seems low. It seems related to age and health. But there is another factor, which I think will ultimately end up being the most important: The ability of a country's medical system to handle the influx of sick patients. More than a a small handful of patients have required extended hospital stays. That's easy to accomplish when the number of sick is in the hundreds and spread out over many countries. Not so much the case when everyone becomes sick and 25% of those need a hospital bed.

I think we're going to find out in the not too distant future where we stand with all of this.

 

[snowlover91]

IMO the coronavirus has been hyped to epic proportions by the news media and this in part is probably why governments across the Globe have been responding the way they have. If the news media hypes something and makes it seem bad then the people of that country will be in fear and want their leaders to do something about it. Fear is a powerful weapon and imo that's probably more the motivation behind the strong global response we've seen more than actual evidence of this being something extremely concerning. Assuming the death toll and sick rates are accurate, we have a mortality rate of around 2% in China which isn't that bad and in developed nations like the US would likely be significantly less. I think this is a lot of media hype and in a few weeks it will die down as people realize it's not as bad as feared.

 

[Arcc]

I don't know for sure whether it's worse than the flu or not worse than the flu. But if it isn't worse than the flu, at least on some level, then you have to stipulate that the Chinese are either A - Stupid for shutting down their whole economy over something that isn't worse than the flu or B - The flu has never made it to China, and this is the first time they've ever dealt with a contagious virus. You also have to stipulate that all these other countries, including the US, are way overreacting by issuing quarantines for the first time in 50 years and banning travel and preparing emergency medical facilities and such. Those things can't be explained away as reasonable activities for something that's no worse than the common flu.

Regarding the patients, some experience light symptoms. Others die. Fortunately, the death rate seems low. It seems related to age and health. But there is another factor, which I think will ultimately end up being the most important: The ability of a country's medical system to handle the influx of sick patients. More than a a small handful of patients have required extended hospital stays. That's easy to accomplish when the number of sick is in the hundreds and spread out over many countries. Not so much the case when everyone becomes sick and 25% of those need a hospital bed.

I think we're going to find out in the not too distant future where we stand with all of this.

I think China has to go through extreme measures regardless of how strong the virus actually is to try to save face with the world. Being a Communist country they have to act like they know what their doing and their citizens are in great shape, when in reality they probably have bad healthcare.

I do agree we will see where the world stands soon and doubt it will be contained. Although getting closer to spring and summer will help.