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I’ve read articles like that one but you missed my point. Obama and Hillary got away with tons of questionable things and it’s logical for a person to conclude that Trump, if guilty, should either get away with it too or all 3 go to jail. I don’t see justice as 2 people getting away with something but the 3rd guy going to jail. Justice is all 3 going to jail or all 3 going free and getting the same treatment. Wouldn’t you agree that it’s not just to send one guy to jail but not the other two?

I’m also convinced if you investigated every Senator and House member you’d probably wind up with over 90% of them committing crimes if you looked hard enough. Politics has ALWAYS been a dirty game and there simply isn’t a way to get around it, some people just hide it better than others. I sure do wish it could be cleaned up but history says that’s how politics always has, and always will, be.

The problem of both sides do it is because each side always give their side the greenlight. People saying "well Hillary and Obama got away with it" while not wanting to see trump held accountable are part of the problem. That wink and nod and that margenilizing the behavior only serves one purpose.......it allows the crooked politicians the cover to continue doing what they do.

How would I raise my child? I would not raise him that it's ok to drink and drive because people by the hundreds get away with it every day. I would not say it's ok to rape because most victims won't report and their attackers get away with it. I just wont.

Saying any of these actions are ok including political corruption eats away at our collective morality each time we say criminal behavior is ok as especially if the other side got away with it.
 
Go read this......https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...blicans-investigated-obama-column/3813132002/

I do not care what letter a person has beside their name wrong is wrong, the entire reason Washington is a cesspool is neither side cares when their side is the one filling up the swamp......giving Trump a pass because "Hillary and Obama" got away with one is a disappointing mindset that way to many people have.....

The IRS scandal was an actual scandal. Fast and Furious? Yeah that actually happened and a life was lost (perhaps more). Benghazi? Yeah that BS happened too and I can attest to it because I attended one of the funerals. Im gonna keep my calm on that one so I dont blow a gasket and get banned from a cool message board. Trump might be shady but if we as a country were ever going to hold an administration "accountable" we missed the boat with the last group. Just my opinion of course
 
The problem of both sides do it is because each side always give their side the greenlight. People saying "well Hillary and Obama got away with it" while not wanting to see trump held accountable are part of the problem. That wink and nod and that margenilizing the behavior only serves one purpose.......it allows the crooked politicians the cover to continue doing what they do.

How would I raise my child? I would not raise him that it's ok to drink and drive because people by the hundreds get away with it every day. I would not say it's ok to rape because most victims won't report and their attackers get away with it. I just wont.

Saying any of these actions are ok including political corruption eats away at our collective morality each time we say criminal behavior is ok as especially if the other side got away with it.

Nope, not saying criminal behavior is okay if the other side got away with it. I’m saying justice is all 3 are guilty so all 3 go to jail or if the law lets 2 go free then the law should be applied in the same way to person #3. If a jury has 3 criminals who are all guilty based on evidence presented but they let two go free due to bribes, threats, etc but the third guy they send to jail, has justice really been served? That’s my whole point here. What we have is 2 who got away with it and 1 who they’re trying to send to jail (TBD what happens). I don’t consider that justice in any way but it doesn’t mean I approve of the behavior of the 3 individuals or would teach my kids to emulate their behavior.
 
The IRS scandal was an actual scandal. Fast and Furious? Yeah that actually happened and a life was lost (perhaps more). Benghazi? Yeah that BS happened too and I can attest to it because I attended one of the funerals. Im gonna keep my calm on that one so I dont blow a gasket and get banned from a cool message board. Trump might be shady but if we as a country were ever going to hold an administration "accountable" we missed the boat with the last group. Just my opinion of course
Hes only shady if youre a nutjob like Cortes or Pelosi.
 
I’ve read articles like that one but you missed my point. Obama and Hillary got away with tons of questionable things and it’s logical for a person to conclude that Trump, if guilty, should either get away with it too or all 3 go to jail. I don’t see justice as 2 people getting away with something but the 3rd guy going to jail. Justice is all 3 going to jail or all 3 going free and getting the same treatment. Wouldn’t you agree that it’s not just to send one guy to jail but not the other two?

I’m also convinced if you investigated every Senator and House member you’d probably wind up with over 90% of them committing crimes if you looked hard enough. Politics has ALWAYS been a dirty game and there simply isn’t a way to get around it, some people just hide it better than others. I sure do wish it could be cleaned up but history says that’s how politics always has, and always will, be.

I didn't miss your point, its your logic that I am missing......your missing the mark with this one Snow......
 
Nope, not saying criminal behavior is okay if the other side got away with it. I’m saying justice is all 3 are guilty so all 3 go to jail or if the law lets 2 go free then the law should be applied in the same way to person #3. If a jury has 3 criminals who are all guilty based on evidence presented but they let two go free due to bribes, threats, etc but the third guy they send to jail, has justice really been served? That’s my whole point here. What we have is 2 who got away with it and 1 who they’re trying to send to jail (TBD what happens). I don’t consider that justice in any way but it doesn’t mean I approve of the behavior of the 3 individuals or would teach my kids to emulate their behavior.
I'm not sure why Hillary is being brought up, she was never president. If you think Republicans allowed Obama to get away with breaking any laws, that they had proof of, that's crazy. The reason he "got away with it" is because there is no proof of any crimes. Trump however has gone on national television multiple times asking for foreign help to win a election. It's funny all the focus on the Dems witch Hunt, like it's any worse than the obstructionist Obama dealt with. The main difference is Obama is smarter or cleaner, not that he got a pass from Republicans. I'm not saying Trump is guilty but if he is, he should go.
 
I didn't miss your point, its your logic that I am missing......your missing the mark with this one Snow......

If you have 3 criminals who have broken the law according to the evidence presented but a jury decides to let 2 of them go and sends the third to jail, is that justice?

Or how about if you have 3 people accused of a crime. The evidence is presented and 2 of them seem guilty but the jury decides there isn’t enough evidence. Then person #3 they say there’s not enough evidence but we need to keep searching for more evidence until we can find a crime he’s committed, is that justice?
 
I'm not sure why Hillary is being brought up, she was never president. If you think Republicans allowed Obama to get away with breaking any laws, that they had proof of, that's crazy. The reason he "got away with it" is because there is no proof of any crimes. Trump however has gone on national television multiple times asking for foreign help to win a election. It's funny all the focus on the Dems witch Hunt, like it's any worse than the obstructionist Obama dealt with. The main difference is Obama is smarter or cleaner, not that he got a pass from Republicans. I'm not saying Trump is guilty but if he is, he should go.

Hillary because she ran for president and had some serious issues in her political career, namely the Benghazi incident and the email scandal.

The biggest issue I see though that doesn’t get talked about much is there is no longer much of a desire for congress to work in a bipartisan way to accomplish things that will benefit America. Instead it’s all about taking sides and investigating the opposing side but never really tackling real issues that are far more important, like our national debt for example.
 
If you have 3 criminals who have broken the law according to the evidence presented but a jury decides to let 2 of them go and sends the third to jail, is that justice?

Or how about if you have 3 people accused of a crime. The evidence is presented and 2 of them seem guilty but the jury decides there isn’t enough evidence. Then person #3 they say there’s not enough evidence but we need to keep searching for more evidence until we can find a crime he’s committed, is that justice?
What evidence is there of Obama's crime? I remember the Republicans controlling the house for six years and wanting nothing more than to see him gone but nothing happened. Even if Obama did commit a crime, that doesn't excuse Trump if he did.
 
If you have 3 criminals who have broken the law according to the evidence presented but a jury decides to let 2 of them go and sends the third to jail, is that justice?

Or how about if you have 3 people accused of a crime. The evidence is presented and 2 of them seem guilty but the jury decides there isn’t enough evidence. Then person #3 they say there’s not enough evidence but we need to keep searching for more evidence until we can find a crime he’s committed, is that justice?

The problem is Hillary and Obama were never accused of a crime to the point it was provable....if the GOP could have they would have.....remember Trump telling everyone he was gonna go after Hillary when he won.....well the GOP had total control of Congress and the DOJ and crickets.....

Your argument is a strawman, your assuming that Obama,Hillary and Trump are all equal and their crimes are equally provable and they are not. Even if Hillary and Obama crimes could be proven and they still got away with it I would still 100% support holding Trump accountable just I would the other two.....

If Obama and Hillary and Trump all killed someone and we couldnt prove it on Hillary and Obama even though we knew they did it so we had to let them go, but we had Trump on tape doing the crime with confession would you still let him go? Cause according to your line of reasoning we would.....and thats dumb.
 
You don't have to be president to be impeached, other offices can be as well, also you don't have to be president to be held accountable for wrongdoing. Hillary was Sec of State when she under the command of the Obama administration failed to provide the requested support in Benghazi and American lives were lost full stop. Then they both lied about it. Obama and Eric Holder were complicit in fast and furious, lives were lost full stop. One American BP agent. Obama IRS targeting conservative groups, destroying livelihoods. Hillary destroyed evidence, let's not forget slick Willy's tarmac meeting with AG Lynch. Don't tell me no criminal acts by the previous administration, its simply not true.

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The problem is Hillary and Obama were never accused of a crime to the point it was provable....if the GOP could have they would have.....remember Trump telling everyone he was gonna go after Hillary when he won.....well the GOP had total control of Congress and the DOJ and crickets.....

Your argument is a strawman, your assuming that Obama,Hillary and Trump are all equal and their crimes are equally provable and they are not. Even if Hillary and Obama crimes could be proven and they still got away with it I would still 100% support holding Trump accountable just I would the other two.....

If Obama and Hillary and Trump all killed someone and we couldnt prove it on Hillary and Obama even though we knew they did it so we had to let them go, but we had Trump on tape doing the crime with confession would you still let him go? Cause according to your line of reasoning we would.....and thats dumb.

I believe there is sufficient evidence that Hillary and Obama should have both gone to jail despite the GOP backing down and democrats believe there is sufficient evidence for Trump being guilty so my illustration serves to put all 3 on equal footing by assuming they are all guilty. If there is evidence that 3 people are guilty it’s simply not true justice for 2 to get off the hook but 1 go to jail. I’m not saying Trump should go free btw, I believe every person should be subject to the law and due process. My argument is a semantical one in that “justice” requires all 3 go by the same due process and standards which I don’t believe has been the case. My personal belief is that Hillary should be in jail along with Obama and many of the people on his staff that were embroiled in controversy that some considered violations of the law

The most difficult part of it all is we only see what we hear from the news media and what’s reported. We have no idea what type of evidence there is behind closed doors so it’s difficult to make an accurate assessment and there is often an extremely fine line and varying opinions on what issues are an impeachable offense.

Here’s something we can both agree on; the politicians need to focus on some major issues that need to be tackled in a bipartisan way like the national debt. Trump promised to deal with it and hasn’t and no politicians seem to want to ever deal with it. The national debt is a huge issue imo that needs to be dealt with ASAP but everyone keeps kicking this can down the road.
 
You don't have to be president to be impeached, other offices can be as well, also you don't have to be president to be held accountable for wrongdoing. Hillary was Sec of State when she under the command of the Obama administration failed to provide the requested support in Benghazi and American lives were lost full stop. Then they both lied about it. Obama and Eric Holder were complicit in fast and furious, lives were lost full stop. One American BP agent. Obama IRS targeting conservative groups, destroying livelihoods. Hillary destroyed evidence, let's not forget slick Willy's tarmac meeting with AG Lynch. Don't tell me no criminal acts by the previous administration, its simply not true.

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All legit issues and concerns. The Republicans could have used their majority in the house to have investigations.....they did for years. Why didn't they ring AOI against Obama, holder, Clinton?

Those poeple not being held accountable was at the fault of republicans for not going the distance with the inquiries.
 
I believe there is sufficient evidence that Hillary and Obama should have both gone to jail despite the GOP backing down and democrats believe there is sufficient evidence for Trump being guilty so my illustration serves to put all 3 on equal footing by assuming they are all guilty. If there is evidence that 3 people are guilty it’s simply not true justice for 2 to get off the hook but 1 go to jail. I’m not saying Trump should go free btw, I believe every person should be subject to the law and due process. My argument is a semantical one in that “justice” requires all 3 go by the same due process and standards which I don’t believe has been the case. My personal belief is that Hillary should be in jail along with Obama and many of the people on his staff that were embroiled in controversy that some considered violations of the law

The most difficult part of it all is we only see what we hear from the news media and what’s reported. We have no idea what type of evidence there is behind closed doors so it’s difficult to make an accurate assessment and there is often an extremely fine line and varying opinions on what issues are an impeachable offense.

Here’s something we can both agree on; the politicians need to focus on some major issues that need to be tackled in a bipartisan way like the national debt. Trump promised to deal with it and hasn’t and no politicians seem to want to ever deal with it. The national debt is a huge issue imo that needs to be dealt with ASAP but everyone keeps kicking this can down the road.

See I think hillary and trump were treated the same. Her email investigation ended with evidence of her doing it but they found the intent or conspiracy to commit the crimes were lacking. I didnt buy that but that's what the investigators found.

Now if you read the Mueller report without bias it clearly and plainly says collusion occured but that it did not rise to a conspiracy level. They know Russia meddles and they know trump affiliates accepted and sought to benefit from it. In essence both investigations proved what happened but that what happened simply didnt meet or rise to the level of a crime.
 
Let's put it this way and assume Devil's advocate. Let's say Trump was found guilty of the Ukraine stuff you mentioned. Since Hillary and Obama got a pass for all the things they did that broke the law or that were highly questionable (and there are a ton), should Trump? If Trump gets the justice he deserves then shouldn't Hillary and Obama also receive the same intense scrutiny that he has?

I think the issue a lot of people have (myself included) is you have a double standard when it comes to politicians. Even before Trump won as president the liberal base was already planning ahead and gearing up to try to find a crime he committed so they can remove him from office. That's an incredibly dangerous precedent to set just because you don't like someone's policies, words or actions. A person should only be investigated when there is something of serious concern and one party should NEVER go looking for a crime to find like the democrats have been doing since before he won the election. There were lots of questionable things during Obama's term but we didn't go through 8 years of investigations and attempts at impeachment because Republicans didn't like him or his policies. Republicans didn't launch a ton of investigations trying to find a crime or wrongdoing. There's also a sense by many of a double standard when people like Obama and Hillary have multiple issues that are highly questionable or should be heavily investigated but aren't... or if they are they get a pass like Hillary did in her email scandal. When people see them getting away with the kind of stuff they did and no repercussions is it no surprise that Trump supporters would want the same "fair" outcome for their guy? If Obama and Hillary got away with it, why not Trump too? Why should Trump get "justice" but Hillary and Obama get a pass? If we are going to seek justice, which path is the correct one to take? Do you lock all 3 up to get "justice" or give 2 of them a pass and lock the Republican up? Which is fair, just and consistent? This isn't to justify anything he's done but simply to look at it from a logical standpoint; if the law and justice is going to be avoided for Hillary and Obama then Trump should get the exact same treatment or if he goes to jail Hillary and Obama should be heavily investigated and sent to jail too. Also, this is all assuming one can actually prove he broke the law which hasn't happened at this time.

Last but not least, many Trump supporters are in favor of his policies and not his words/actions. The conservatives he has put in the Supreme Court make decisions throughout the year that affect our constitutional rights and are arguably as important, if not more than, a president is since the courts have so much power these days. What about all the other judges he has put in who are ones who will help uphold constitutional freedoms?

It's more than a "Trump bad" mentality it's looking at the big picture... not to mention in 2020 the alternative to Trump is likely going to be a socialist and just look at Venezuela to see how that ends up. Do you really want America to become like that? California is already halfway to third world status with their diseases rampant (like leprosy and typhus fever to name a few), rolling power outages due to mismanaged govt funds and green policies, corruption, and an out of control homeless population.

Regarding the overall Trump support I actually think it's higher than in 2020. Unemployment is at incredibly low levels and as Bill Clinton used to say "it's the economy stupid." Now if it crashes before the 2020 election that will probably hurt Trump more than anything else but as of now I think his support base is probably at higher levels than 2016. Just look at the fundraising money he's bringing in. I also know Wall Street doesn't want a socialist winning for obvious reasons so they might even back Trump depending on who the 2020 Dem candidate ends up being. This is my 2 cents on the topics discussed but it's great we live in a FREE country that men and women sacrificed their lives so that we can have choices, debate in a civil manner and celebrate the freedoms we do have.
Great commentary
 
The problem is Hillary and Obama were never accused of a crime to the point it was provable....if the GOP could have they would have.....remember Trump telling everyone he was gonna go after Hillary when he won.....well the GOP had total control of Congress and the DOJ and crickets.....

Your argument is a strawman, your assuming that Obama,Hillary and Trump are all equal and their crimes are equally provable and they are not. Even if Hillary and Obama crimes could be proven and they still got away with it I would still 100% support holding Trump accountable just I would the other two.....

If Obama and Hillary and Trump all killed someone and we couldnt prove it on Hillary and Obama even though we knew they did it so we had to let them go, but we had Trump on tape doing the crime with confession would you still let him go? Cause according to your line of reasoning we would.....and thats dumb.

Hillary's email scandal would have sent the average person to jail, intent proven or not. They didn't prosecute because they couldn't prove intent which is another way of saying she is a rich powerful politcian so she gets a pass. Somehow, those rules don't apply to me and you.
 
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