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Political Thread

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Rain Cold said:
I agree with that. I'm a trumper over at AmPol. In all fairness, though, I usually default to whatever side all of the others over there take just to troll. I think some gripes against him are legitimate. I think some are trumped up.
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If he'd just shut up and govern, problem is he lets his emotions get in the way
 
Rain Cold said:
I can definitely corroborate that you and Shaggy both are seen as very far right-wingers over at AmPol. I think a lot of what you are seeing with hard core Trump voters is that it isn't your usual stance of Right vs. Left or Conservative vs. Liberal. Instead, it's Trump vs. The System, where virtually ALL of The System has it in for Trump from Day 1. I think there is some truth to this. But I am also not so unreasonable that I ignore the fact that he has helped contribute to it.

For this case specifically, I see all of the information and testimony that has leaked out or been made available. While it doesn't look great for Trump, it has not been tested yet from a legal defense standpoint. Once that process is underway, we'll be able to view all of it in its entire context. For me, I think that's the fair approach. For hard core Trump supporters, he hasn't done anything wrong ever. For anti-Trumpers, he's guilty of many, many crimes, and should probably be in prison.

Personally, I think there is some truth to the fact that he's really upset The System, leading to a lot of leaks and attacks that simply didn't happen with previous administrations (not to say there weren't attacks, but if Obama would have had such a phone call with Ukraine, I doubt it would have ever seen the light of day). However, that doesn't absolve him from the way he handles certain situations, the way he talks about things and treats people, and the unforced errors that he and his administration make. He brings the microscope upon himself more than he should.
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That is pretty much where I stand. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Trump colluded with Russians, obstructed justice and restricted aid to Ukraine for dirt. That said, I don’t care because to assume this isn’t common practice in DC is silly and justice has never been met out for worse offenses. Heck Weiner got a slap on the wrist for sending naked pictures to a minor.

That all said I didn’t vote for Trump and will not next year, so my opinion really doesn’t matter.
 
Downeastnc said:
Several things.....first the US intelligence community has repeatedly told Trump and his administration that the hacking was done by Russians, there was no Ukrainian interference in 2016.....Trump can not ask a foreign government to investigate his political rival as he stands to gain personally, which is why Trump is doing illegal and unethical actions when he ask.

The Ukrainians have said as far back as the spring of this year that the Bidens are not under investigation and more importantly they never were.....there is no conspiracy, even when Burisma was under investigation it was for a period of time several years before Biden JR took the job on the board. There was nothing illegal about Biden Jr having that job or making the income he was making.....

This is from back in May before this became a well known issue...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...utor-says-no-evidence-of-wrongdoing-by-bidens

This tweet of a statement from the head of the FEC pretty much explains why Trump cant ask a foreign government to investigate Biden.....she tweeted out the first time in June and just retweeted it right after Trump asked China to look into Biden.

View attachment 24983
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Hunter Biden was hired just weeks after the VP was asked by Obama to oversee US-Ukraine relations, Hunter himself has admitted that he was hired because his last name was Biden.

And any of us can pull news articles to support either side of the debate... for instance from The Hill

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.


and the full article https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story
 
Downeastnc said:
I will have to refer this to Cold Rain since he post at the other political board and can attest they consider me a far right wing nut......especially IRT guns.....I was vocal against many Obama and Hillary antics and policies........I have zero problem with Hillary or Obama being held responsible for any and all crimes they can be proven to have committed.....the difference is I feel the exact same way about Trump when he screws up. Just because Hillary/Obama have not been held accountable does not mean I look the other way when its Trump......I am not a liberal or a democrat I just HATE that people are so jaded and twisted by their partisanship and I feel like I have taken a crazy pill watching people on my side defend Trump of things that would have had them DEMANDING the others sides leaders head on a platter.
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I consider you a rare moderate overall, which is refreshing to me as I'm moderately conservative overall and I like to see folks more accepting of compromise for the greater good and not so partisan that they can't sometimes see the other side. I am not a fan of tribalism/closed-mindedness, which seems to control most political discussions on both sides.
 
GaWx said:
I consider you a rare moderate overall, which is refreshing to me as I'm moderately conservative overall and I like to see folks more accepting of compromise for the greater good and not so partisan that they can't sometimes see the other side. I am not a fan of tribalism/closed-mindedness, which seems to control most political discussions on both sides.
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I'll be completely honest here and is probably a reason I should refrain from the political discussion most of the time. But my loyalty to the conservative cause stems from Christian views and there just aren't many things I'm willing to compromise on, especially when it comes to what many would consider very divisive social causes (i.e. abortion, same sex marriage, etc). If that makes me a tribalist and close minded then so be it.

Now there are those that will come at me for claiming Christian views while voting for Trump, but if you don't understand my rationale for voting for an individual I think has serious moral issues by now, then your not paying attention Lol
 
metwannabe said:
Maybe I should go over there and troll.... sounds like fun! Lol
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If you've never read that board, you're probably going to be in for a shock. There are a good number of noncivil folks there, mainly on the far left side. Civility is rare, with RC/CR being about the most civil. For example, there's one far left person there who claims to be a devout Christian woman, who cusses like a sailor, and who constantly insults so many fellow posters. She/he claims that devout Christians are allowed to insult/cuss as Jesus never said one can't or some such nonsense. CR can confirm. What gets me is that this person acts as if she/he is all knowing and yet has turned out to be flat out wrong on a number of occasions. It is really weird. The activity there reminds me of the "kayfabe" of wrestling. And it has been going on for years. If it survives another 10 years, it will be about the same imo.
 
GaWx said:
If you've never read that board, you're probably going to be in for a shock. There are a good number of noncivil folks there, mainly on the far left side. Civility is rare, with RC/CR being about the most civil. For example, there's one far left person there who claims to be a devout Christian woman, who cusses like a sailor, and who constantly insults so many fellow posters. She/he claims that devout Christians are allowed to insult/cuss as Jesus never said one can't or some such nonsense. CR can conrirm. What gets me is that this person acts as if she/he is all knowing and yet has turned out to be flat out wrong on a number of occasions. It is really weird. The activity there reminds me of the "kayfabe" of wrestling. And it has been going on for years. if it survives another 10 years, it will be about the same.
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In that case I probably need not venture over there....
 
metwannabe said:
Hunter Biden was hired just weeks after the VP was asked by Obama to oversee US-Ukraine relations, Hunter himself has admitted that he was hired because his last name was Biden.

And any of us can pull news articles to support either side of the debate... for instance from The Hill

Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.


and the full article https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story
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No doubt Biden Jr gets jobs because of his name.....that while questionable on a moral and ethical standpoint it is not illegal....I am sure now he wishes he had turned down the offer. Second the investigations into Burisma had nothing to do with Biden Jr, the only thing they did was provide Biden Jr's salary for his time with Bursima so the US could confirm he pd the proper taxes.......that's it.

Biden pressuring the Ukraine to get rid of Shokin was a US political move supported by the State Dept, and the EU and other governing bodies.....its not like it was Biden alone who decided to do this to protect his son, that did not factor in at all. Besides the reason the US/EU etc wanted Shokin gone was he was not investigating enough, Shokin was heavily involved in the corruption and getting pd off to look the other way, so the reality is the US and EU etc pressured the Ukraine to fire Shokin because they wanted someone who was going to investigate and take a hardline on corruption contrary to what Shokin was doing.

John Solomon the guy that wrote that oped for the Hill you linked is a famous Trump man.....he also has close ties to the recently arrested Parnas the Ukrainian fixer who is accused of working with Rudy to create the Biden controversy, he is the one who put Solomon in contact with a prosecutor that gave that info to Solomon for that story......I would tread carefully there.
 
I'm not supporting Trump because I'm a right wing nut job, I'm pretty much a middle of road conservative. What people don't understand is this is not a right vs left issue. This is a normal people verse the system corruption issue.
 
Globalism vs US exceptionalism. Deep State/Media vs American citizens and freedom. We have people in every facet of US government that hate the US, and any foreign entity that is our ally. People like the "squad" only like the US if they can transform it into something that eliminates the US constitution.
 
Busting at the seams to jump in here ... but the fear is, however unintentional, truly alienating some very nice folks ... plus retirement is fun ... just sit back, read and SMH ...
 
Avalanche said:
Globalism vs US exceptionalism. Deep State/Media vs American citizens and freedom. We have people in every facet of US government that hate the US, and any foreign entity that is our ally. People like the "squad" only like the US if they can transform it into something that eliminates the US constitution.
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You're right about the squad but that's a problem shared by the worst of trumps base. They would eliminate the constitution just as quickly if it meant they got what they wanted.

Some of his policies are ok. Most of his antics are not. His personality is nothing to be emulated. He is a sorry man and some people can separate his personality from his politics and support him.

I wasnt able to do so. I have a 3 yr old and I refuse to marginalize how trump bragged about grabbing women by the crotch. That is despicable.

If your wife comes home and says some guy did that to her what's your first reaction? Do you say "was he rich, have power, or have strong ideas for national policy"? Hell no.

Are we to teach our young men this is acceptable? How about our young women? Tell them it's ok as long as the man was rich and powerful? That alone was enough to completely turn me away from trump. We should never marginalize that behavior.
 
Bham 99 said:
I'm not supporting Trump because I'm a right wing nut job, I'm pretty much a middle of road conservative. What people don't understand is this is not a right vs left issue. This is a normal people verse the system corruption issue.
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Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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Time will tell. At least we have a fighter that may not be politically correct than someone is going to be a pushover
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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I've had a negative impression of Trump's character for several decades. So, his behavior isn't totally shocking. However, I never in a million years would have thought he'd treat McCain's Vietnam service like he did, especially since he, himself, didn't serve. Also, you probably already know that he has't always been conservative or Republican.
 
Downeastnc said:
Yeah too bad the guy in there is part of this corruption and not a normal person at all........Trump was already corrupt when we gave him the job, he is no different than anyone else before him in his job and he is just as big a contributor to the swamp as anyone. Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......
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Trump doesn't want to drain his side of the swamp just the lefts......[/QUOTE].

Its not up to Trump to do that, its up to the left, and they have. That's how we wound up with the lack of constitutional conservatism in the 9th circuit COA.
 
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