• Hello, please take a minute to check out our awesome content, contributed by the wonderful members of our community. We hope you'll add your own thoughts and opinions by making a free account!

Political Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Matthew70 said:
Don’t you find it a bit surprising that a lot of the state’s who did not social distancing really had no bad not surge in deaths or hospitalizations. Like Lowe’s has done just fine. Most grocery stores have had no major problems. UPS or shipping companies. List goes on and on. I remember many on here saying how no one was social distancing. All those beach goers never had a major hospitalizations. Disney is fixing to open up. As far as prisons that is incredible that almost no deaths within them.
Click to expand...

Most of those states had natural social distancing due to population density.

Social distancing by way of shutdowns has worked. Dont think there is much debate there.
 
Shaggy said:
Most of those states had natural social distancing due to population density.

Social distancing by way of shutdowns has worked. Dont think there is much debate there.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there are numerous folks who vehemently disagree with you. From another BB’s off topic COVID-19 topic:

“I'm not convinced that shut downs have helped. Two items.

Sweden has called on it’s citizens to act responsibly and go about their business. While they have had more cases than their immediate neighbors, they have had far less than most of Europe.

Also, our immunity needs exercise. We need to be exposed to have it, otherwise, we lose it. So when we do get back to something resembling normal, we'll get sick from all the things to which we used to be immune.

So, an argument could be made that the ‘shelter in place’ has not only had no benefits, it may have done more harm, and not just to the economy.”
———————————————————

He’s not convinced about what you said and he’d debate you nonstop. What would you say in response to this?
You want to guess which side of the political aisle he’s on?
 
GaWx said:
Unfortunately, there are numerous folks who vehemently disagree with you. From another BB’s off topic COVID-19 topic:

“I'm not convinced that shut downs have helped. Two items.

Sweden has called on it’s citizens to act responsibly and go about their business. While they have had more cases than their immediate neighbors, they have had far less than most of Europe.

Also, our immunity needs exercise. We need to be exposed to have it, otherwise, we lose it. So when we do get back to something resembling normal, we'll get sick from all the things to which we used to be immune.

So, an argument could be made that the ‘shelter in place’ has not only had no benefits, it may have done more harm, and not just to the economy.”
———————————————————

He’s not convinced about what you said and he’d debate you nonstop. What would you say in response to this?
You want to guess which side of the political aisle he’s on?
Click to expand...
Interesting. I have heard others say it hurts our immune systems by not being out.
 
MichaelJ said:
Trump can be, and mostly is, a narcissitic jerk at times but my God how can you even consider voting for the guy in that video. I guess I will wait and see if the Libertarians run a decent candidate to vote for
Click to expand...

Justin Amash is running for that parties nomination. If he gets it that's who I'll vote for.
 
GaWx said:
Unfortunately, there are numerous folks who vehemently disagree with you. From another BB’s off topic COVID-19 topic:

“I'm not convinced that shut downs have helped. Two items.

Sweden has called on it’s citizens to act responsibly and go about their business. While they have had more cases than their immediate neighbors, they have had far less than most of Europe.

Also, our immunity needs exercise. We need to be exposed to have it, otherwise, we lose it. So when we do get back to something resembling normal, we'll get sick from all the things to which we used to be immune.

So, an argument could be made that the ‘shelter in place’ has not only had no benefits, it may have done more harm, and not just to the economy.”
———————————————————

He’s not convinced about what you said and he’d debate you nonstop. What would you say in response to this?
You want to guess which side of the political aisle he’s on?
Click to expand...

I'd point out Sweden has had more deaths than their neighbors and that we dont lose our immune systems like he is suggesting.
 
One of the biggest Scotus rulings in our nations history imo. This decision on presidential immunity will forever shape our checks and balances.

www.yahoo.com

US Supreme Court to take on Trump taxes and presidential immunity

Can Donald Trump refuse to turn over his tax returns and financial records to Congress and New York prosecutors? The Supreme Court takes up this politically charged question on Tuesday, and it may use the occasion to better define the limits of presidential immunity. The high court's nine...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Round Oak Weather- Zeb said:
Trump and Obama we’re gonna have about the same amount of debt coming out of a term if Covid wouldn’t have happened. Trump would’ve had about 4 trillion and Obama had about 4 trillion so even with the tax cuts it didn’t change how much debt we were adding each year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Trump presided over a booming economy with the lowest unemployment rate in half a century. There’s really no excuse for running such huge deficits during a booming economy. In theory, we should be running slight surpluses in such years so we can afford inevitable deficit spending during recessions, though I know that’s a pipe dream.
 
Shaggy said:
I'd point out Sweden has had more deaths than their neighbors and that we dont lose our immune systems like he is suggesting.
Click to expand...

Thanks. From that same BB, here’s a different poster’s take after I posted that Dr. Fauci uses science and Dr. Mikovits uses pseudoscience:

“As laymen, how do we distinguish between a ‘scientist’ and a ‘pseudoscientist’? There is no way, a layman, such as myself, can even participate in such a discussion.”

And this poster later says this:

“However, there are some things that will make me question one side immediately….

For example….good data are the basis of all scientific analysis and prediction.

Now take this tidbit of information:

‘MN Sen. and Dr. Jensen said that he received a 7 page document from the MN Department of Health advising him to fill out death certificates with a diagnosis of #COVID-19 whether the person actually died from COVID-19 or not.’ (link available on request)

Since this was published, many doctors have stepped forward and quoted similar orders from above.

‘Science’ stops right here. This is data manipulation…. fraud. This puts our ‘scientists’ immediately into the category of ‘pseudoscience’

The other thing that is quite disturbing….so many doctors have stated their opposition to the stance taken by our government scientists… and their opinions and presentations are quickly removed.

It is no longer possible to have a debate between opposing opinions, as it used to be in the USA that I have admired for so many years.”
——————————————————

Any response to this?
 
GaWx said:
Thanks. From that same BB, here’s a different poster’s take after I posted that Dr. Fauci uses science and Dr. Mikovits uses pseudoscience:

“As laymen, how do we distinguish between a ‘scientist’ and a ‘pseudoscientist’? There is no way, a layman, such as myself, can even participate in such a discussion.”

And this poster later says this:

“However, there are some things that will make me question one side immediately….

For example….good data are the basis of all scientific analysis and prediction.

Now take this tidbit of information:

‘MN Sen. and Dr. Jensen said that he received a 7 page document from the MN Department of Health advising him to fill out death certificates with a diagnosis of #COVID-19 whether the person actually died from COVID-19 or not.’ (link available on request)

Since this was published, many doctors have stepped forward and quoted similar orders from above.

‘Science’ stops right here. This is data manipulation…. fraud. This puts our ‘scientists’ immediately into the category of ‘pseudoscience’

The other thing that is quite disturbing….so many doctors have stated their opposition to the stance taken by our government scientists… and their opinions and presentations are quickly removed.

It is no longer possible to have a debate between opposing opinions, as it used to be in the USA that I have admired for so many years.”
——————————————————

Any response to this?
Click to expand...

Yeah the individual is begging for confirmation biased "opinions". He wants 1 outcome and that's for this to be a fake event. To that i will post a Facebook meme.
 

Attachments

  • 20200422_193627.jpg
    20200422_193627.jpg
    291.4 KB · Views: 13
Shaggy said:
Read and research. You dont lose your immune system like that.
Click to expand...
I do believe our immune system does get weaker by not being out in every day life. As we all know there is good bacteria. Also I believe the use of all this sanitizer will eventually lead to it not being as effective. Just like certain bacterial infections are resistant to certain antibiotics.
 
Matthew70 said:
I do believe our immune system does get weaker by not being out in every day life. As we all know there is good bacteria. Also I believe the use of all this sanitizer will eventually lead to it not being as effective. Just like certain bacterial infections are resistant to certain antibiotics.
Click to expand...

Ok heres the part where you provide research to back up your claim.
 
Shaggy said:
Ok heres the part where you provide research to back up your claim.
Click to expand...
Which claim? I have diverticulitis. When I take antibiotics for it. It kills the good bacteria in my gut also. Why I have to take probiotics. When I worked in ER and hospital. My medical personnel like kids going to schools get basic colds and sore throats at first but then it settles down after exposure. The herd immunity.
 
Matthew70 said:
Which claim? I have diverticulitis. When I take antibiotics for it. It kills the good bacteria in my gut also. Why I have to take probiotics. When I worked in ER and hospital. My medical personnel like kids going to schools get basic colds and sore throats at first but then it settles down after exposure. The herd immunity.
Click to expand...

There is some truth to some of that but it's not something you lose in 6 weeks. The antibiotics kill ALL the bacteria in your gut not just the good. Been there done that myself and had cdiff for 5 months off and on. I have also had recurring shingles and YES younger people are getting than before because we are not being re-exposed over our LIFETIMES because kids are now vaccinated against it.

Provide me some scientific data sayi g we will all lose our immunity in 2 months of lockdowns.
 
Shaggy said:
There is some truth to some of that but it's not something you lose in 6 weeks. The antibiotics kill ALL the bacteria in your gut not just the good. Been there done that myself and had cdiff for 5 months off and on. I have also had recurring shingles and YES younger people are getting than before because we are not being re-exposed over our LIFETIMES because kids are now vaccinated against it.

Provide me some scientific data sayi g we will all lose our immunity in 2 months of lockdowns.
Click to expand...
I said I had heard not read. Also never said we lose all our immunity after 2 months lockdowns. Now kids will have not been in school for almost 5 months when it starts back up. I’d say sniffles and coughs will be common come fall school starting up.
 
Matthew70 said:
I said I had heard not read. Also never said we lose all our immunity after 2 months lockdowns. Now kids will have not been in school for almost 5 months when it starts back up. I’d say sniffles and coughs will be common come fall school starting up.
Click to expand...

Yeah seems like the first couple weeks of school can go that way
 
Shaggy said:
Ok heres the part where you provide research to back up your claim.
Click to expand...

I can speak on the hand sanitizer part. I generally use soap and water. Only use HS when out and about where S and W aren't available. Stay safe. :)

"CDC recommends washing hands with soap and water whenever possible because handwashing reduces the amounts of all types of germs and chemicals on hands. But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others"

Show Me the Science – When & How to Use Hand Sanitizer in Community Settings | Handwashing | CDC

Information about handwashing and hand hygiene
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
EV_WS said:
I can speak on the hand sanitizer part. I generally use soap and water. Only use HS when out and about where S and W aren't available. Stay safe. :)

"CDC recommends washing hands with soap and water whenever possible because handwashing reduces the amounts of all types of germs and chemicals on hands. But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others"

Show Me the Science – When & How to Use Hand Sanitizer in Community Settings | Handwashing | CDC

Information about handwashing and hand hygiene
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...

Of course one or the other is preferred but how does that effect immunity?
 
Now we see Iran and Germany both seeing upticks in new infections as they reopen.

Hope we are paying attention in the situation room so we can prepare for our 2nd wave.

www.yahoo.com

Germany's infection rate rises above one after lockdown eased

Germany’s coronavirus reproduction rate – the crucial measure shows how widely the virus is spreading in the community – has risen to 1.1, giving rise to fears that a second wave of infections may be imminent. The findings come just days after the country begun the first phase of relaxing its...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Shaggy said:
Of course one or the other is preferred but how does that effect immunity?
Click to expand...

I hadn't planned to address the immunity question. I was simply passing along what I thought was helpful information. ?‍♂️

Anyway, here you go.


www.dailymail.co.uk

It IS important to expose children to germs to boost immune system

Exposing youngsters to microbes gives them a stronger immune systems, says Chicago germ expert professor Jack Gilbert. Over-sterlising mean today's children have poorer defences.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Shaggy said:
There is some truth to some of that but it's not something you lose in 6 weeks. The antibiotics kill ALL the bacteria in your gut not just the good. Been there done that myself and had cdiff for 5 months off and on. I have also had recurring shingles and YES younger people are getting than before because we are not being re-exposed over our LIFETIMES because kids are now vaccinated against it.

Provide me some scientific data sayi g we will all lose our immunity in 2 months of lockdowns.
Click to expand...

C diff is no joke. I was given an antibiotic a couple of years ago. It cleared all the good bacteria in my gut. Month and a half of pure hell. Reached 102.7 temperature several times. Landed me in the ER due to severe dehydration.
 
EV_WS said:
C diff is no joke. I was given an antibiotic a couple of years ago. It cleared all the good bacteria in my gut. Month and a half of pure hell. Reached 102.7 temperature several times. Landed me in the ER due to severe dehydration.
Click to expand...

Missed my first day of work on Oct 11th 2018. Took my last round of vancomycin and flagyl on Feb 22 2019 and that last dose finally got me straight again.

Hell is a nice way to put it.
 
Sorry PC but I can’t post on virus thread. If this stat is true. It’s sad but also good. Means we are approaching half the US population has been exposed to this virus. So if need immunity is reall then it will pay off in long run.
 

Attachments

  • B2BBA7B9-F004-4697-AE1F-7FDF3647C220.png
    B2BBA7B9-F004-4697-AE1F-7FDF3647C220.png
    723.1 KB · Views: 8
Shaggy said:
Of course one or the other is preferred but how does that effect immunity?
Click to expand...
I would think just like any virus or bacteria. If exposed enough to sanitizer it will build up resistance. Of course bleach has no resistance. No no I’m not saying to drink it or use Ivs of bleach. ??????
 
EV_WS said:
C diff is no joke. I was given an antibiotic a couple of years ago. It cleared all the good bacteria in my gut. Month and a half of pure hell. Reached 102.7 temperature several times. Landed me in the ER due to severe dehydration.
Click to expand...
Yes I was in hospital for 5 days and when got out I continued to be sick. Then I got those freaking cursed shingles for first time. I thought kidney stones were worse until those. My doc said start taking probiotics everyday along with Metamucil. Since then have been awesome. I am an avid runner and healthy before taking those two things daily. They just boosted my immune system more.
 
Shaggy said:
Yeah the individual is begging for confirmation biased "opinions". He wants 1 outcome and that's for this to be a fake event. To that i will post a Facebook meme.
Click to expand...

Shaggy,
I just posted that meme at that forum as part of my defense. Someone else at that same BB (3rd different person I've quoted (not whom I was addressing my response to) and who happens to be a pro met fwiw) said this in response:


"It doesn't at all address how many died/lives were saved and what the price was to save those lives.........which is THE relevant point that people are making.

There is no formula that tells us a life is worth X amount to the rest of the living in lost economic and other things that contribute to the quality of life.

However, we can use precedent..........how about the flu that has been around for many decades.

Using that precedent, the statement above is completely out of line for not recognizing a loss many orders of magnitude greater to peoples lives compared to the deaths."
-------------------------

So, this pro met is saying that our response to the annual flu hasn't been including widespread lockdowns/social distancing, He appears to be saying that the huge increase in measures taken by the govt for COVID-19 cannot possibly be worth the economic damage done to the country. He's been using the lack of major response to the flu over and over for many weeks as a reason why the govt has gone way overboard with COVID-19.

In making this assessment, I'm tempted to ask him how does he know how bad COVID-19 may have gotten with no lockdowns keeping in mind a) how much more contagious, b) how much more severe (longlasting damage in many cases even if not killed) and c) how much more deadly COVID-19 is vs the typical flu.

I'm also tempted to remind him that 1918-9 was a flu and there were lockdowns done then.
 
Matthew70 said:
Yes I was in hospital for 5 days and when got out I continued to be sick. Then I got those freaking cursed shingles for first time. I thought kidney stones were worse until those. My doc said start taking probiotics everyday along with Metamucil. Since then have been awesome. I am an avid runner and healthy before taking those two things daily. They just boosted my immune system more.
Click to expand...

Some things I lost to cdiff are orange juice, milk and alchohol. Since I had it those things turn my stomach in knots so I avoid them now.

Shingles suck too. Had them on my head and face and those jokers hurt like hell too.
 
GaWx said:
Shaggy,
I just posted that meme at that forum as part of my defense. Someone else at that same BB (3rd different person I've quoted (not whom I was addressing my response to) and who happens to be a pro met fwiw) said this in response:


"It doesn't at all address how many died/lives were saved and what the price was to save those lives.........which is THE relevant point that people are making.

There is no formula that tells us a life is worth X amount to the rest of the living in lost economic and other things that contribute to the quality of life.

However, we can use precedent..........how about the flu that has been around for many decades.

Using that precedent, the statement above is completely out of line for not recognizing a loss many orders of magnitude greater to peoples lives compared to the deaths."
-------------------------

So, this pro met is saying that our response to the annual flu hasn't been including widespread lockdowns/social distancing, He appears to be saying that the huge increase in measures taken by the govt for COVID-19 cannot possibly be worth the economic damage done to the country. He's been using the lack of major response to the flu over and over for many weeks as a reason why the govt has gone way overboard.

In making this assessment, I'm tempted to ask him how does he know how bad COVID-19 may have gotten with no lockdowns keeping in mind a) how much more contagious, b) how much more severe (longlasting damage in many cases even if not killed) and c) how much more deadly COVID-19 is vs the typical flu.
Click to expand...

I've largely quit arguing on my hunting forum because there is ZERO proof you can provide them that will change their minds...ZERO.

The fact there is a sizable fraction of our population that believes this is all an attempt to win the election in 2020 is troubling. All these countless lives people have sacrificed even non-Americans just to get their one guy.

I use to be thankful stupidity wasnt contagious.....but then the internet said hold my beer!
 
Shaggy said:
I've largely quit arguing on my hunting forum because there is ZERO proof you can provide them that will change their minds...ZERO.

The fact there is a sizable fraction of our population that believes this is all an attempt to win the election in 2020 is troubling. All these countless lives people have sacrificed even non-Americans just to get their one guy.

I use to be thankful stupidity wasnt contagious.....but then the internet said hold my beer!
Click to expand...

The thing is that this guy is actually an intelligent scientist (pro-met)! He's no dummy! He also thinks the climate issue is way overblown and he thinks GW to this point has actually been beneficial overall. One thing he points out is the increased crop yields/greening of the globe.

He's not a typical conservative by any means. I'm not even sure he's a conservative. He claims to have voted for Obama and mostly Democrats in the past! But he's an ardent Trump supporter who points out over and over that the entire MSM is just out to get him with fake news. He thinks that Trump did no wrong with regard to getting Russian help as well as in regard to Ukraine/impeachment issue.

I do agree with him that much of the MSM is biased against Trump. But where we differ is that I think Trump has asked for a lot of it with his behavior.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top