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Political Thread

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crecre9 said:
From the Coronavirus thread,
Matthew70, I'm sure you understand it is the right of all of us to criticize or even to "trash" America. Just because someone has criticism doesn't meant they should leave. The fact that you believe so reflects very poorly on you.
If you don't like people criticizing the country, maybe you should leave? /s
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Sure anyone can criticize this country but seriously a comment that the US is worse than any other country? Please. I can listen to people criticize this country sure. No reason for me to leave over that because I don’t let words ruin my thinking of what a great country I live in. Now someone that feels every other country is better and is miserable here. Not sure why they would want to stay here. There is plenty of countries for that individual to find happiness.
 
Poimen said:
No. In the example you use, the thermometer is the standard of truth. Someone thinks it’s hot or cold is opinion, not truth.

just because the US government says the terrorist is bad doesn’t mean it’s true. You and I may agree, but that’s not what makes it true.
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Nah, the terrorist wants to strike fear into the heart of the people in order to rule over them. That's what makes the terrorist bad. His entire world view is tainted by the lie he believes. He may be acting true to his beliefs, but it still causes him to be morally corrupt.
 
weatherfide said:
To bring this discussion about "truth" back to the conversation, I think the big question is "does the media report the truth?" or as we stated before, "can we trust the media to report the truth without bias"? I think we can all agree that most media outlets, certainly CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ABC, etc., are very biased in their reporting. They report some truth and leave out important pieces to spin the perception in their favor. They report hearsay and opinions as though they have the same weight as factual sources.

A large percentage of media companies and the people that work for them support socialist and Marxist "leftist" ideology. That is why I detest the media and do not trust the media. You have to learn to find the facts in multiple reports and then piece the "truth" together for yourself.
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Bolded......
 
weatherfide said:
Nah, the terrorist wants to strike fear into the heart of the people in order to rule over them. That's what makes the terrorist bad. His entire world view is tainted by the lie he believes. He may be acting true to his beliefs, but it still causes him to be morally corrupt.
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At the very moment he is burying an IED to kill US soldiers he believes in his perception of truth. When I put a scope on him and pull the trigger to end his life its a different perception of truth. Might be a bad example for some to comprehend but it was real life for me
 
Poimen said:
One of the many dangerous consequences is seen in this thread: some supporters of the president behave as if it’s un-American to criticize the president. Just like so many are quick to trash people who refuse to stand for the national anthem. I always stand, but I always thought that part of what makes American great is the freedom of expression. The moment we force people and the moment we forbid criticizing the president is the moment we become fascists or communists.
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People can criticize the president Or govt or this country. Difference is this. If someone lives in a neighborhood they detest or a house then do they stay there? If someone hates this country then leave. I am not staying somewhere I detest. Plus not standing for the flag for some stupid cause is ridiculous. The flag should not be used for something like police brutality. The flag represents the USA. It’s not for an individuals upset over something to protest using it. There are plenty of other ways for someone to make a statement or protest. Leave the flag outta it. America has many issues just as other countries but there is plenty of positives to outweigh the negatives. Freedom to worship any religion. Speak freely. Raise a family without suppressing. The list goes on and on. So what if everyone started using the flag to protest other things. Then the flag loses its meaning. I am not in anyway attacking you. I agree with you but people need to realize what America and the flag stands for. It’s a country and not a cause.
 
Sandbar said:
What I am saying is that the actual truth is meaningless. If I think 80 degrees is hot and you think 80 degrees is cold who is right? What is the truth? Its in the eye of the beholder just like I said!
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Neither of them are the truth as they are opinions, the only truth in that sentence is that it is 80 degrees outside because we can prove that to be true.......otherwise you are talking about two OPINIONS not truths.

There is no perception of truth, things that are true are true regardless of your perception.....the fact you blur these things explains a lot about your beliefs....
 
Poimen said:
That’s not how “truth is in the eye of the beholder” works. You are saying that truth is relative and is defined by individuals. Plenty of people believe that in our society, but the actions you describe are not indicative of said belief. If you really believe what you say, then you would have to admit that you have no right to kill the terrorist based on how the terrorist defines truth. After all, truth is in the eye of the beholder. Basically, you are arguing that there is no such thing as truth.
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I have a question. I want to ask my own pastor but am curious to your answer. We are raised to believe in Jesus. Other countries are raised with their beliefs. We as Christians are told to go to other countries to preach the gospel. The Bible tells most Americans it’s the truth. The Koran tells Muslims their truth. What makes the Bible truth over the Koran? In other words were telling them you were taught false information. You are wrong we are right. No wonder other countries hate America. We push our beliefs and ways on them. If we were raised in a Muslim country don’t you think we would think the Koran is right and the Bible is wrong. We believe the Bible is truth just like they believe the Koran is truth. Same with what media and govt tells us. Truth can be manipulated.
 
Matthew70 said:
People can criticize the president Or govt or this country. Difference is this. If someone lives in a neighborhood they detest or a house then do they stay there? If someone hates this country then leave. I am not staying somewhere I detest. Plus not standing for the flag for some stupid cause is ridiculous. The flag should not be used for something like police brutality. The flag represents the USA. It’s not for an individuals upset over something to protest using it. There are plenty of other ways for someone to make a statement or protest. Leave the flag outta it. America has many issues just as other countries but there is plenty of positives to outweigh the negatives. Freedom to worship any religion. Speak freely. Raise a family without suppressing. The list goes on and on. So what if everyone started using the flag to protest other things. Then the flag loses its meaning. I am not in anyway attacking you. I agree with you but people need to realize what America and the flag stands for. It’s a country and not a cause.
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Everything you rail against in this post is EXACTLY why this is the greatest nation on Earth.....the fact we as individuals can express our opinions freely regardless of how YOU feel about it is what makes this country so great.....you talk about the right to speak freely then whine about using the flag, you cant have it both ways.
 
Downeastnc said:
Everything you rail against in this post is EXACTLY why this is the greatest nation on Earth.....the fact we as individuals can express our opinions freely regardless of how YOU feel about it is what makes this country so great.....you talk about the right to speak freely then whine about using the flag, you cant have it both ways.
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It’s my opinion. Use the flag to protest fine. Just be ready for those that will not care for you when you do and look down on you. If going to protest using the flag then do it loudly. Just like Colin did. Now he sees what happens when one does. His actions of using the flag to protest or make a statement did nothing for his cause. He just brought detest to him as an individual. But you are right. We are free in America to protest how we like.
 
Shaggy said:
To be far less eloquent I would say if trump asked his believers/supporters to eat dog crap every day for the next 3 weeks a large % of them would only question if they need to use a fork or a spoon.
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Uncalled for but whatever.... I voted for him, I support him but I'm not a follower. These "they'd eat crap if he told them" is ridiculous but to each his own. This is why I really need to stay out of here....
 
Matthew70 said:
I have a question. I want to ask my own pastor but am curious to your answer. We are raised to believe in Jesus. Other countries are raised with their beliefs. We as Christians are told to go to other countries to preach the gospel. The Bible tells most Americans it’s the truth. The Koran tells Muslims their truth. What makes the Bible truth over the Koran? In other words were telling them you were taught false information. You are wrong we are right. No wonder other countries hate America. We push our beliefs and ways on them. If we were raised in a Muslim country don’t you think we would think the Koran is right and the Bible is wrong. We believe the Bible is truth just like they believe the Koran is truth. Same with what media and govt tells us. Truth can be manipulated.
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I believe Jesus is the truth as he said. He is/was the very embodiment of truth: God in human flesh. I further believe that his resurrection validates all of his claims and I believe there are very good reasons to believe in his resurrection. I also believe that the Bible is God’s inerrant Word and there are good reasons to believe that.

That does not make any of it true and I can’t prove any of it beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is, in the end, my belief based on an examination of the evidence.

If Jesus was resurrected, thus validating all that he said, then it follows that the Bible is true and Koran is not. Does that answer your question?
 
metwannabe said:
Uncalled for but whatever.... I voted for him, I support him but I'm not a follower. These "they'd eat crap if he told them" is ridiculous but to each his own. This is why I really need to stay out of here....
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To honest this board is not that bad. Sure there are trump supporters like you and a few others. None of you fall under this category I mentioned. I can show you another forum with a bunch of hunters and far right guys and you would see my post in a different light.

The fact there are people that believe this pandemic is a dry run of the govt testing how much they can seize says a lot. That thousands of foreigners chose to die to overthrow trump is beyond absurd. The whole Q crowd comes to mind as well.Anyone who parrots trumps words as the gospel fit my above description.

Again theres only 1 or 2 people on here that I would put in that category.
 
metwannabe said:
Uncalled for but whatever.... I voted for him, I support him but I'm not a follower. These "they'd eat crap if he told them" is ridiculous but to each his own. This is why I really need to stay out of here....
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This is what happens when negativity and hatred soil a persons brain......They have to justify there own shortcomings in some way so they push it off on somebody else. Overseas we called these people vampires. Soul suckers! LOL
 
Poimen said:
I believe Jesus is the truth as he said. He is/was the very embodiment of truth: God in human flesh. I further believe that his resurrection validates all of his claims and I believe there are very good reasons to believe in his resurrection. I also believe that the Bible is God’s inerrant Word and there are good reasons to believe that.

That does not make any of it true and I can’t prove any of it beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is, in the end, my belief based on an examination of the evidence.

If Jesus was resurrected, thus validating all that he said, then it follows that the Bible is true and Koran is not. Does that answer your question?
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Thank you sir!
 
metwannabe said:
Uncalled for but whatever.... I voted for him, I support him but I'm not a follower. These "they'd eat crap if he told them" is ridiculous but to each his own. This is why I really need to stay out of here....
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There are some interesting discussions in this thread but I've found the "Ignore" feature to be very useful !
 
Does anyone honestly think the media doesn't have some sort of agenda with all thats going on ? It's clear to me that the media would be happy if this virus lasted for another 5 years. They are loving the ratings. And of course they would probably be disappointed if the virus suddenly disappeared and the economy was getting better before the election. For example, I saw an article the other day that was bashing Trump. Hidden deep within the article was a bit of good news about how the projected death toll had declined significantly. But of course the media never likes to talk about any sort of good news. Could you imagine on the front page of CNN news an article with a headline saying the projected death toll had gone down. They thrive on negativity and anything bad. You will rarely see good news on the front page.
 
Dewpoint Dan said:
Does anyone honestly think the media doesn't have some sort of agenda with all thats going on ? It's clear to me that the media would be happy if this virus lasted for another 5 years. They are loving the ratings. And of course they would probably be disappointed if the virus suddenly disappeared and the economy was getting better before the election. For example, I saw an article the other day that was bashing Trump. Hidden deep within the article was a bit of good news about how the projected death toll had declined significantly. But of course the media never likes to talk about any sort of good news. Could you imagine on the front page of CNN news an article with a headline saying the projected death toll had gone down. They thrive on negativity and anything bad. You will rarely see good news on the front page.
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I don't think the majority of the media has an agenda with this unless it's the far right media (Fox, Breitbart, OAN) carrying the water for Trump trying to cover up his incompetence or the Far Left (MSNBC) who is probably spending too much time focusing on his blunders.
 
Matthew70 said:
Sure anyone can criticize this country but seriously a comment that the US is worse than any other country? Please. I can listen to people criticize this country sure. No reason for me to leave over that because I don’t let words ruin my thinking of what a great country I live in. Now someone that feels every other country is better and is miserable here. Not sure why they would want to stay here. There is plenty of countries for that individual to find happiness.
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Wow that went way over your head.
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

6,000 families line up in cars for hours at San Antonio food bank

Stunning aerial photos show thousands of cars lined up at Trader's Village in San Antonio during the massive event on Thursday, where more than one million pounds of food were distributed.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Was it worth it shutting down the economy for what is now unfolding in not just America but the world. Yes lives were lost but to think that a Great Depression in today’s time want kill more than the virus does. I sure hope those individuals are right. Just look at the news starting to come out with only not even a month of lockdowns. Riots at prisons. Looting. Robberies. Domestic assaults. Child abuse. Hunger. Poverty. Bankruptcies. All these are increasing. All over America and the world. Longer locked down worse all these will get. Yes we will be ok but at what cost?
 
ghost1 said:
I don't think the majority of the media has an agenda with this unless it's the far right media (Fox, Breitbart, OAN) carrying the water for Trump trying to cover up his incompetence or the Far Left (MSNBC) who is probably spending too much time focusing on his blunders.
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So you could only come up with MSNBC as far left, that says a lot. In regards to Fox, I agree they lean right, but they at least have hosts/major contributors(Chris Wallace and Brit Hume to name a couple) who don't pull punches. Finding somebody at the left leaning news orgs willing to step outside the "bash trump no matter what" talking points is close to impossible.
 
Matthew70 said:
www.freep.com

New Whitmer order bans 'travel between residences,' with a few exceptions

Beginning Saturday morning, travel between residences will be banned, except for limited purposes.
www.freep.com
Nope can’t do that an overreach and overreaction. So going to risk law enforcement for this stupid order.
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There is no way in hell they can enforce that. I think that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. What is the point of saving our "life" if we can't go see our friends and family? Since when is this up to the "government"? I think it's time to call up the "well regulated militia", at least in Michigan, anyway.
 
Sandbar said:
LOL......I might as well just bang my friggin head against the wall. I see the truth through my eyes how I choose to see it. Fair enough?
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There are some absolutes. Truth is absolute, and truth is different from opinions.
 
Rain Cold said:
There are some absolutes. Truth is absolute, and truth is different from opinions.
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His statement is exactly what happens when you entire worldview is blurred with idolatry and beliefs.....you cant tell anyone like that anything, nor can you change their view of the truth regardless of how wrong they are. They see the "truth" in everything they believe.....their version of society and way of life is the only valid one and anyone who does not agree does so because they cant see the "truth"or are the enemy bent on destroying it etc etc etc....its why for the most part conspiracy theorist come from the extreme ends of the political landscape.
 
So if two thermometers are 2 feet apart; one is in the Sun and says 95 and the other is in the shade and says 80; it seems they're both the truth from what I'm reading.

The person standing in the Sun is hot and the person in the shade is cold but that's their opinion because the thermometers are the only truth.

My house can be 70 and my wife says it's hot and I say it's comfortable; to me they're all the truth; the thermometer is based on a scientific measurement (but has it been calibrated properly so maybe it's 69 or 70 so is it really the truth); my wife's truth about it being hot is not an opinion it's the truth her body tells her, my truth is it's comfortable because that's what my body is telling me and I'm right 99% of the time at home; just don't tell my wife because her truth is she's right 99% of the time.

This is more fun than some of the political crap..
 
Matthew70 said:
www.freep.com

New Whitmer order bans 'travel between residences,' with a few exceptions

Beginning Saturday morning, travel between residences will be banned, except for limited purposes.
www.freep.com
Nope can’t do that an overreach and overreaction. So going to risk law enforcement for this stupid order.
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pcbjr said:
This is what brings about armed revolution ...
I lived up there ... those folks in the countryside are very independent ... gonna see some reaction, no doubt ...
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To the Governor of Michigan:

1586561103899.png
 
LetItSnow said:
To the Governor of Michigan:

1586561103899.png
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Watch out, because she is a potential candidate for VP.

www.politico.com

‘The Woman in Michigan’ Goes National

Governor Gretchen Whitmer is dealing with a historic pandemic, a bullying president and a big job tryout.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
LetItSnow said:
So if two thermometers are 2 feet apart; one is in the Sun and says 95 and the other is in the shade and says 80; it seems they're both the truth from what I'm reading.

The person standing in the Sun is hot and the person in the shade is cold but that's their opinion because the thermometers are the only truth.

My house can be 70 and my wife says it's hot and I say it's comfortable; to me they're all the truth; the thermometer is based on a scientific measurement (but has it been calibrated properly so maybe it's 69 or 70 so is it really the truth); my wife's truth about it being hot is not an opinion it's the truth her body tells her, my truth is it's comfortable because that's what my body is telling me and I'm right 99% of the time at home; just don't tell my wife because her truth is she's right 99% of the time.

This is more fun than some of the political crap..
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Totally misses the point. It’s not complicated folks.
 
pcbjr said:
This is what brings about armed revolution ...
I lived up there ... those folks in the countryside are very independent ... gonna see some reaction, no doubt ...
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I’m from the Upper Peninsula. Yep. A Yooper. More rednecks per square mile in rural Michigan and Wisconsin than in the entire south.
 
Perhaps we need a separate thread to discuss matters of philosophy. But the statement that started this discussion was: “Truth is in the eye of the beholder.”

That statement is a logical fallacy. If truth is determined individually then there is no such thing as truth.

Many people believe in “relativism,” which denies an objective standard of truth. If that’s what you believe, then that’s fine. But don’t use the word truth.
 
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