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I am staying out of the politics here ... my comments are restricted to process, procedure and effective advocacy ... just to add some context in those few instances where I see it being sidelined (or inadvertently overlooked) ... please do not take anything I say as an editorial on substance ... :cool:
It's all good bro I was just saying thank you for explaing the rest was not intended to get a response from you or anybody.....
 
If you are in politics for decades you are going to be involved in shady dealings. The level to which it bothers people tends to fall in line with how much you despise the individual on a personal level which is why I dont allow my emotions to dictate my political support
If you've been in politics for decades it's time too go and that's the problem Trump didnt drain the swamp he damned it up so it will thrive for decades. Nothing but shady dealings it's the art of the deal.
 
Personally Trumps legal team yesterday were brilliant. Now they may have lied through their teeth, but the performed KISS(keep it simple stupid) perfectly. They attacked the phrase Quid Pro Quo using actual sound bites which is what the public will remember and tried to stress that the GOP and Trump were being kept from participating. The two hours of testimony before recess was smart as well as they didn't just ramble and bombard the public with tons of facts and events and the public will likely remember what was said better.

Like I said, they may have lied it up, but from a standpoint of public opinion it sounded like a good move to me. That is one thing to remember, this isn't an trial with the Senate as jurors, it's a trial of public opinion.
 
You mean the career politician who didn't vote down Obamacare because he hated Trump?
He voted with his conscience.... He had balls he knew it would do more harm than good and isent that why Republicans tried to kill it they hated Obama and the wheel goes around and round dems are not perfect but if we want a true democracy we cannot mix religion in government or let personal views dictate laws thats why we left England to begin with. The dems will always put the people first regardless of race religion personal views ect. No there not perfect but they provide the best path forward for my children the he'll with my bank account i want to make sure my children's children have a future.
 
You mean the career politician who didn't vote down Obamacare because he hated Trump?
He was more than just a career politician. He had his hands on the dossier (the one that was completely fake, made up and paid for by Hillary. The one that talked about disgusting golden showers) and helped to pedal it. Traitor and Trump loather. It is not normal for people on their death beds to not be humbled and to not have a forgiving heart. Something odd about he whole thing huh?
 
Personally Trumps legal team yesterday were brilliant. Now they may have lied through their teeth, but the performed KISS(keep it simple stupid) perfectly. They attacked the phrase Quid Pro Quo using actual sound bites which is what the public will remember and tried to stress that the GOP and Trump were being kept from participating. The two hours of testimony before recess was smart as well as they didn't just ramble and bombard the public with tons of facts and events and the public will likely remember what was said better.

Like I said, they may have lied it up, but from a standpoint of public opinion it sounded like a good move to me
. That is one thing to remember, this isn't an trial with the Senate as jurors, it's a trial of public opinion.

Unless of course the public opinion court see its all lies.
 
He was more than just a career politician. He had his hands on the dossier (the one that was completely fake, made up and paid for by Hillary. The one that talked about disgusting golden showers) and helped to pedal it. Traitor and Trump loather. It is not normal for people on their death beds to not be humbled and to not have a forgiving heart. Something odd about he whole thing huh?
John McCain is a traitor? That's low even for a trump cheerleader. He didn't dodge the draft four times like your hero.
 
Biden is toast. Dems did exactly what Q and others predicted long ago. They opened up the Biden bag for 3 days and now it's game on (Biden is the last thing they should have brought up over and over). They single handedly made it more of an issue and made it possible for Trumps team to run with it. What is wrong with them. Whoever thinks Bernie could be the nominee is exactly right. Totally possible if the dems don't get rid of him first..And what is wrong with Hillary? Nobody likes Bernie? Is she completely out of her mind? Simply amazing how people are behaving, lying and ignoring evidence. Even the fake news had to credit Trumps team.

I can't even
 
Does any Trump haters not take pause about Schiff reading Trumps conversation with Ukraine and completely making it up? He sounds like he's reading from an old mafia movie. Nobody cares about that? He lies. What about him saying keeping referencing CBS saying if it's true about the head on the pike. If it's true he saFacts and evidence will prevail no matter how many bias media outlets stretch to spin everything and keep the brainwashed going out of fear. It's not going to work. Does anybody not think if Schiff had this evidence on Trump like he said that it would not have been blown up for the world to see a long time ago? Trump would already be gone if anybody had even a sliver of real evidence. It's a nasty game but it's not going to work. However the dems are destroying their own selves in the process of their desperate attempt to hide their own swampy disgusting deeds. It's amazing to watch.
John McCain is a traitor? That's low even for a trump cheerleader. He didn't dodge the draft four times like your hero.
So do you not know about the dossier and golden showers and McCain's part in it? Surely you know about the dossier at least...?
 
Does any Trump haters not take pause about Schiff reading Trumps conversation with Ukraine and completely making it up? He sounds like he's reading from an old mafia movie. Nobody cares about that? He lies. What about him saying keeping referencing CBS saying if it's true about the head on the pike. If it's true he saFacts and evidence will prevail no matter how many bias media outlets stretch to spin everything and keep the brainwashed going out of fear. It's not going to work. Does anybody not think if Schiff had this evidence on Trump like he said that it would not have been blown up for the world to see a long time ago? Trump would already be gone if anybody had even a sliver of real evidence. It's a nasty game but it's not going to work. However the dems are destroying their own selves in the process of their desperate attempt to hide their own swampy disgusting deeds. It's amazing to watch.

So do you not know about the dossier and golden showers and McCain's part in it? Surely you know about the dossier at least...?

Schiff was not trying to read it as fact, it was satire/parody of how TRUMP see's himself.....

Here are the facts and Trump and his team have no answer for these little tidbits other than who cares its no big deal......if these things had been done by a Democratic president you would be demanding their head on a platter.....

Trump sent people who DO NOT WORK for the US government to the Ukraine to pressure the US Amb and Ukrainian government to go after the Bidens....when she wouldnt they threatened her and forced her to leave....

Trump then foolishly in the open tried to get a foreign government to illegally influence our presidential election just asking them to go after Biden on a phone call this alone is enough to get him impeached.

This call was so careless and damaging the WH consul asked people not to talk about it and then placed it illegally on a code word protected server to try and hide it.

Trump placed 341 million dollars in aid to the Ukraine on hold to pressure them into going public with a announcement they would investigate the Biden's....this was illegal he did not legally have the authority to do it and his team constantly tried to get him to release these funds. Trump only released these funds after the WB complaint story went public.

You are dead wrong that Trump would already be gone if there was a sliver of evidence there is a whole damn tree worth of slivers of evidence the fact is the GOP simply is putting party and politics ahead of Constitution and country. That is what is really happening here, and sadly the Dems would probably do the same thing if the situation was reversed, the problem for the GOP is Parnas and others have got Trump on tape doing all kinds of shady crap and they are slowly leaking these tapes out. This is on purpose and the reason they are coming out now is deliberate. The Dems KNOW the GOP will save Trump pretty much no matter what they find or prove, so they are just handing out rope, and after the GOP saves Trump they will release even more of this evidence and then use that to show how the GOP is corrupt and this will allow them to probably unseat several GOP senators in purple states and maybe even a few in redder states. Thats the play here and the GOP is gonna do exactly what they want because they do not have the spine to stand up and say sorry Trump you screwed up you got to go....

It probably doesnt help that Pence, Pompeo and Nunes and probably several other higher ranking GOP leaders are mixed up in this as well and know if Trump goes down they do too....
 
Did anybody grasp this? The house did not vote and therefore didn't have the power to out source to send subpoenas to Trump in the first place. Nancy rushed through and skipped a step. Remember that when people tell you that bad man Trump ignored them. We would all ignore subpoenas that came from anyone that doesn't have any power to send them. Also when they tell you Trump refused to come or let Bolton etc come. It is misleading. Nancy there again skipped the normal steps to rush. They didn't want to go through the courts.. Now expects the JURY to do their job. Truth and rules matter. Games games games. Games that will not end well for the dems.
Also how about the fact that Ukraine didn't know the money was withheld until later. That is a very good point to think about too. Where's the leverage in that??? Details matter, that's how the law and courts work. I would look and wait for actual evidence to come before going along with the dems. 2 +2 = 4 alright. It's all simple with evidence to back it up. A pause and critical thinking may be in order. Unless corruption and lies are okay as long as it gets rid of Trump somehow....this is the most disgusting part. It will be fine with some no matter what. No matter what the evidence shows, anything is alright as long as Trump can be unseated and slandered. Trump is a threat to the deep state. They started talking impeachment day one right. Critical thinking...
 
Does any Trump haters not take pause about Schiff reading Trumps conversation with Ukraine and completely making it up? He sounds like he's reading from an old mafia movie. Nobody cares about that? He lies. What about him saying keeping referencing CBS saying if it's true about the head on the pike. If it's true he saFacts and evidence will prevail no matter how many bias media outlets stretch to spin everything and keep the brainwashed going out of fear. It's not going to work. Does anybody not think if Schiff had this evidence on Trump like he said that it would not have been blown up for the world to see a long time ago? Trump would already be gone if anybody had even a sliver of real evidence. It's a nasty game but it's not going to work. However the dems are destroying their own selves in the process of their desperate attempt to hide their own swampy disgusting deeds. It's amazing to watch.

So do you not know about the dossier and golden showers and McCain's part in it? Surely you know about the dossier at least...?
I am aware of it but it's not enough to call a man who spent five years as a pow a traitor. Are you aware you can be against Trump and not be a traitor? The golden showers part is believable if you listen to Trump on Howard Stern, he's a pig.
 
Schiff was not trying to read it as fact, it was satire/parody of how TRUMP see's himself.....

Here are the facts and Trump and his team have no answer for these little tidbits other than who cares its no big deal......if these things had been done by a Democratic president you would be demanding their head on a platter.....

Trump sent people who DO NOT WORK for the US government to the Ukraine to pressure the US Amb and Ukrainian government to go after the Bidens....when she wouldnt they threatened her and forced her to leave....

Trump then foolishly in the open tried to get a foreign government to illegally influence our presidential election just asking them to go after Biden on a phone call this alone is enough to get him impeached.

This call was so careless and damaging the WH consul asked people not to talk about it and then placed it illegally on a code word protected server to try and hide it.

Trump placed 341 million dollars in aid to the Ukraine on hold to pressure them into going public with a announcement they would investigate the Biden's....this was illegal he did not legally have the authority to do it and his team constantly tried to get him to release these funds. Trump only released these funds after the WB complaint story went public.

You are dead wrong that Trump would already be gone if there was a sliver of evidence there is a whole damn tree worth of slivers of evidence the fact is the GOP simply is putting party and politics ahead of Constitution and country. That is what is really happening here, and sadly the Dems would probably do the same thing if the situation was reversed, the problem for the GOP is Parnas and others have got Trump on tape doing all kinds of shady crap and they are slowly leaking these tapes out. This is on purpose and the reason they are coming out now is deliberate. The Dems KNOW the GOP will save Trump pretty much no matter what they find or prove, so they are just handing out rope, and after the GOP saves Trump they will release even more of this evidence and then use that to show how the GOP is corrupt and this will allow them to probably unseat several GOP senators in purple states and maybe even a few in redder states. Thats the play here and the GOP is gonna do exactly what they want because they do not have the spine to stand up and say sorry Trump you screwed up you got to go....

It probably doesnt help that Pence, Pompeo and Nunes and probably several other higher ranking GOP leaders are mixed up in this as well and know if Trump goes down they do too....
No reason to read past your first line. Schiff is a member of the House of Representatives of the United States trying to impeach a sitting President not on Saturday Night Live. BS!!!
 
He voted with his conscience.... He had balls he knew it would do more harm than good and isent that why Republicans tried to kill it they hated Obama and the wheel goes around and round dems are not perfect but if we want a true democracy we cannot mix religion in government or let personal views dictate laws thats why we left England to begin with. The dems will always put the people first regardless of race religion personal views ect. No there not perfect but they provide the best path forward for my children the he'll with my bank account i want to make sure my children's children have a future.

Democrats always put people first? Tell that to the millions of people living in inner city ghettos of America who have put their faith in these crooks for over 50 years. By all means show me the results. Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, LA. The list is a mile long. All run by Democrats for decades and nothing but continued poverty to show for it
 
Did anybody grasp this? The house did not vote and therefore didn't have the power to out source to send subpoenas to Trump in the first place. Nancy rushed through and skipped a step. Remember that when people tell you that bad man Trump ignored them. We would all ignore subpoenas that came from anyone that doesn't have any power to send them. Also when they tell you Trump refused to come or let Bolton etc come. It is misleading. Nancy there again skipped the normal steps to rush. They didn't want to go through the courts.. Now expects the JURY to do their job. Truth and rules matter. Games games games. Games that will not end well for the dems.
Also how about the fact that Ukraine didn't know the money was withheld until later. That is a very good point to think about too. Where's the leverage in that??? Details matter, that's how the law and courts work. I would look and wait for actual evidence to come before going along with the dems. 2 +2 = 4 alright. It's all simple with evidence to back it up. A pause and critical thinking may be in order. Unless corruption and lies are okay as long as it gets rid of Trump somehow....this is the most disgusting part. It will be fine with some no matter what. No matter what the evidence shows, anything is alright as long as Trump can be unseated and slandered. Trump is a threat to the deep state. They started talking impeachment day one right. Critical thinking...
Glad you are here to explain this, I never would have figured it out without your insight
 
No reason to read past your first line. Schiff is a member of the House of Representatives of the United States trying to impeach a sitting President not on Saturday Night Live. BS!!!
He didn't try to impeach Trump. Trump has been impeached and always will be remembered as a impeached president. Just like Clinton it's a black mark that will never go away.
 
So after hearing the new lev parnas video it is even more evident trump is unfit for office.

So you have lev discussing the ambassador. Trump literally has to ask what her name is. He is clueless completely and totally clueless as to who she is. Then Parnas who has no position in the US govt at all says "she has said things about you and just wait until you are impeached".......now this man who trump supposedly doesnt even know tells him that and trump makes an immediate emotionally unstable decision to get rid of her without one shred of proof.

If this is how easily he can be influenced to make major diplomatic decisions then that's a bit unnerving.
But the bottom line without all the spinning is this isn't it? Trump can get rid of any ambassadors for any reason at any time..Just like Obama did right?(where was the outrage and impeachment?)
Ol' Lev just trying to get his sentence reduced I think. That seems logical in the DC swamp games.
 
I have looked into the Biden's and the Ukraine and I find the same thing over and over again.....nothing.....at worst Biden jr took a position because of his name and that it was short sighted given the job his father was doing....but in the end there is nothing there.

heck do you know why Biden wanted Shokin gone? I dont think you do, see Biden as part of the broader US policy that wanted Shokin gone because HE WAS NOT INVESTIGATING anything.....including Burisma. In fact evidence shows Shokin was bribing the head of Burisma to not investigate them.

Get educated on the facts and how things are and what really happened....this is why Shokin was pushed out.....the guy who replaced him actually investigated stuff, so you want us to believe that Biden wanted the lazy guy who was not even investigating Burisma much less his son or him replaced by someone that was actually going to investigate corruption....thats what you think shows/proves the Bidens are corrupt.

Some useful background for those who truly want to understand what is going on....


"Neither Shokin nor Poroshenko wanted to investigate [Burisma owner Mykola] Zlochevsky,” says Sakvarelidze. “They simply began a criminal case, arrested a few assets, and began negotiating with the corruptioneer for a bribe.”

“Shokin impeded those fighting for justice,” said Vitaly Tytych, a lawyer representing the families of the victims. “It is wrong to call what he did investigations. Because if there is one thing Shokin never did it is investigate.”

“We were under no illusions,” Soboliev tells The Independent. “We saw how Shokin had made an art of dumping cases while pretending to investigate. How he was a symbol of ineffectiveness and stalling. How he was the embodiment of the post-Soviet prosecutor.”

In summing up, David Sakvarelidze used a similar formula.

“Shokin was not a bad man per se,” he says. “He was simply a man of another era; a typical, post-Soviet Ukrainian prosecutor.

By the time Joe Biden arrived in Kiev in December 2015 to issue his infamous ultimatum, Shokin had lost the support of all but 3.5 per cent of Ukrainians.
Rudy said Shokin was going to be on his podcast next week. We should all tune in and see what he says. Should be interesting.
 
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