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Pattern January 2020 - Operation Thaw Alaska

To reiterate from yesterday, we really need to keep a close eye on the North Pacific storm track the next week or so.

Small changes in the placement, amplitude, & orientation of the Okhtosk trough & downstream ridge in the NE Pacific & Alaska will make all the difference here. For the SE US, there's a very fine line between a warm & an extremely cold pattern with little room for in between.
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To reiterate from yesterday, we really need to keep a close eye on the North Pacific storm track the next week or so.

Small changes in the placement, amplitude, & orientation of the Okhtosk trough & downstream ridge in the NE Pacific & Alaska will make all the difference here. For the SE US, there's a very fine line between a warm & an extremely cold pattern with little room for in between.
View attachment 29190

Basically the fine line between a wintry pattern and a pattern supportive of severe weather with a flexing SE ridge and shortwaves ejecting out the west
 
Basically the fine line between a wintry pattern and a pattern supportive of severe weather with a flexing SE ridge and shortwaves ejecting out the west

Yep, in terms of sensible impacts anything is on the table atm & one of the two extremes is more likely than the middle of the road solution/ average temps. Even in some of our best wintry -EPO patterns, Florida is often still baking.
 
Yep, in terms of sensible impacts anything is on the table atm & one of the two extremes is more likely than the middle of the road solution/ average temps. Even in some of our best wintry -EPO patterns, Florida is often still baking.

Wouldn’t mind both, gotta love this upcoming pattern if you love severe and winter weather, either one is a win
 
Wouldn’t mind both, gotta love this upcoming pattern if you love severe and winter weather, either one is a win

No, it's more of if you love rain or winter weather. Not gonna see many interesting severe events with the roaring subtropical jet.

Dang, Euro close to dropping the hammer.
 
06z dropped a nice event imby on the Upper Cumberland Plateau in East Tennessee, as well as NETN, SEKY and SWVA and the far western NC mountains. Looks a little faster than the Euro/GGem and a little further south but is in the same ballpark time frame as they showed earlier. Decent winter threat that hopefully can be reeled in over the coming days. Had pretty good luck doing that with the few winter threats we've had West of the Apps so far this season. With how badly the last 3 years has gone, and with what I have down, even one event like that the rest of winter would feel like a huge bounce back year. Very cold few days in there too.
 
Well Larry has chimed in last night with a forget about it in the southeast for a while, maybe a long while.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
No, it's more of if you love rain or winter weather. Not gonna see many interesting severe events with the roaring subtropical jet.

Dang, Euro close to dropping the hammer.

No this isn't true at all, a strong subtropical jet doesn't = lackluster severe, there's more to it than that. Actually, the presence of the southern jet is an additional source of barotropic kinetic energy & baroclinic energy that can be converted into eddies, leading to stronger surface cyclones & SRH, etc, the key is its latitudinal position.

A NINA-esque SE US ridge pattern coupled w/ a strong southern jet being deflected northward around the SER is a good pattern for severe.
 
Should be interesting to watch the North Pacific storm track over the next few weeks. A deeper, equatorward, more persistent, & negatively tilted Sea of Okhtosk trough >>> stronger NE Pacific anticyclonic wave break & potential for a legit -EPO during the 2nd week of January.

View attachment 29165


Now look at the GEFS, notice this trough is faster, lifting, & positively tilted compared to the EPS >>> downstream ridge is more suppressed >>> less -EPO & more -PNA. We should be able to resolve this evolution late next week.

View attachment 29166

Rather unsurprisingly, the GEFS is trending towards the more favorable EPS solution. A slower, equatorward, & more neutrally tilted trough axis is evident in later runs near eastern Russia >> favors stronger, more poleward -EPO in the 2nd week of January.

gfs-ens_z500a_npac_fh210_trend.gif
 
No this isn't true at all, a strong subtropical jet doesn't = lackluster severe, there's more to it than that. Actually, the presence of the southern jet is an additional source of barotropic kinetic energy & baroclinic energy that can be converted into eddies, leading to stronger surface cyclones & SRH, etc, the key is its latitudinal position.

A NINA-esque SE US ridge pattern coupled w/ a strong southern jet being deflected northward around the SER is a good pattern for severe.

While that is true, the subtropical jet can also flood mid-level moist air which really hurts the EML. Sure you can get severe weather, but the really active outbreaks that people who like tracking severe weather want to see are hampered by messy storm mode and weak lapse rates.
 
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While that is true, the subtropical jet also floods mid-level moist air which really hurts the EML. Sure you can get severe weather, but the really active outbreaks that people who like tracking severe weather want to see are hampered by messy storm mode and weak lapse rates.

The subtropical jet doesn't flood the continent w/ moist air in the mid-levels, the subtropical jet is actually higher in the upper troposphere than the mid-latitude jet and is roughly in geostrophic balance so it's not advecting anything to begin with.
 
The subtropical jet doesn't flood the continent w/ moist air in the mid-levels, the subtropical jet is actually higher in the upper troposphere than the mid-latitude jet and is roughly in geostrophic balance so it's not advecting anything to begin with.

Im talking about more moist southern stream systems, not the jet itself.
 
Im talking about more moist southern stream systems, not the jet itself.

"the subtropical jet can also flood mid-level moist air which really hurts the EML"

There's a huge distinction between the eddies within the jet and the jet itself, which you were clearly talking about in the previous comment although you've subsequently denied it. EMLs rarely reach the southeastern US because they've usually been mixed out even in the most favorable patterns. You also don't want the mid-levels to be so dry that when parcels ascend, they entrain dry air and the updrafts collapse. Coupled w/ strong shear at this time of the year updrafts would be further enticed to collapse in the presence of an EML, plus the lack of an EML is rarely the limiting factor for severe in January-March. Having an EML or the lack thereof is hardly a back breaker for severe weather in general in the SE US. It's sometimes present in the largest outbreaks but again it's not a necessary prerequisite outside the southern plains for getting an outbreak. In any case, the discussion of severe weather outbreak and whether or not this pattern would support one is superfluous here because there's far more needed than a nice synoptic-planetary scale wave pattern and its over a week away.

However, getting back to @Myfrotho704_ 's initial statement, the longwave pattern being shown in the longer term is in fact favorable for some severe weather in the SE US even w/ a strong subtropical jet which is deflected northward around said SER and again this STJ is not actually what's advecting mid-level EMLs into the southern plains.
 
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"the subtropical jet can also flood mid-level moist air which really hurts the EML"

There's a huge distinction between the eddies within the jet and the jet itself, which you were clearly talking about in the previous comment although you've subsequently denied it. EMLs rarely reach the southeastern US because they've usually been mixed out even in the most favorable patterns. You also don't want the mid-levels to be so dry that when parcels ascend, they entrain dry air and the updrafts collapse. Coupled w/ strong shear at this time of the year, the presence or lack of an EML is rarely the limiting factor for severe in January-March. Having an EML or the lack thereof is hardly a back breaker for severe weather in general in the SE US. It's sometimes present in the largest outbreaks but again it's not a necessary prerequisite outside the southern plains for getting an outbreak. In any case, the discussion of severe weather outbreak and whether or not this pattern would support one is superfluous here because there's far more needed than a nice synoptic-planetary scale wave pattern and its over a week away.

However, getting back to @Myfrotho704_ 's initial statement, the longwave pattern being shown in the longer term is in fact favorable for some severe weather in the SE US even w/ a strong subtropical jet which is deflected northward around said SER and again this STJ is not actually what's advecting mid-level EMLs into the southern plains.

Good grief, really?
 
Good grief, really?

Well, the bolded statement is true because you were at first discussing the STJ and then later you moved the goalposts and said you were talking about the eddies in said jet. There is in fact a pretty big difference between the two, the subtropical jet is a waveguide and is found exclusively in the upper troposphere, the other is obviously the waves themselves which have large depth in the troposphere and may extend throughout most of the column. The eddies may advect EML but again it's really not a necessary ingredient given the time of the year and location. A strong EML + strong shear + weak CAPE often = collapsing updrafts & very disorganized convection, if any. In this sense, the EML may hurt, not enhance deep convection
 
Well, the bolded statement is true because you were at first discussing the STJ and then later you moved the goalposts and said you were talking about the eddies in said jet. There is in fact a pretty big difference between the two, the subtropical jet is a waveguide and is found exclusively in the upper troposphere, the other is obviously the waves themselves which have large depth in the troposphere and may extend throughout most of the column. The eddies may advect EML but again it's really not a necessary ingredient given the time of the year and location. A strong EML + strong shear + weak CAPE often = collapsing updrafts & very disorganized convection, if any. In this sense, the EML may hurt, not enhance deep convection

I was mentioning it in a general sense. Im not gonna write a novel when 99% of the people here could have read and understood what I said. Im not denying anything. If you really want to think Im moving the goal post, go ahead.

Im not exactly sure we are on that much a different page as far as severe weather goes. Sure, this is a pattern for some severe weather, I don't deny that. That said, having posted with Tennessee Storm for years and seeing Myfro's previous posts and being a severe weather junkie myself, seeing messy storm modes hindered by weak lapse rates is not a "severe weather" pattern for us.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm not writing a novel in any case.
 
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