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Tropical Hurricane Ida

Katrina had cat 5 surge at 130mph because of its wide size. Camile which had higher winds, true cat 5, was smaller in size. However katrina surge was higher than Camile in MS.
How does forecasted Ida stack up in size, windfield expansiveness compared to Katrina verse Camile scenerio listed above?
 
The track did shift a hair east actually but only a hair. I overlayed the new to the old to check.
View attachment 89427

Thanks for doing that . Its helpful to actually see the difference . Especially at this point when they will most likely be small changes and nothing drastic .


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The ridge is always underestimated. ALWAYS. The major east shift into Alabama/Florida panhandle you guys are dying to see will likely never occur or verify. Sure there’s always a small chance and forecasting mistakes are made, but I am extremely doubtful in a major shift at this point in time. The wishcasting so blatantly obvious. I am 85% confident that this will be an LA land falling storm.
I agree with you that a shift into Alabama/FL is extremely unlikely… I give less than a 5% chance of happening. However the ridge has been trending weaker at that time period now for a couple days and we’re inside 72 hours, so the models are getting fairly good data to be doing that. Again I think a SE Louisiana landfall is most likely at this point, I think the true effect of the weaker ridge is in how quick the models are turning it northeast once inland.
 
Katrina had cat 5 surge at 130mph because of its wide size. Camile which had higher winds, true cat 5, was smaller in size. However katrina surge was higher than Camile in MS.
How does forecasted Ida stack up in size, windfield expansiveness compared to Katrina verse Camile scenerio listed above?
From the wind maps I can pull, Katrina's wind field was massive.1630119472039.png

The GFS 850 wind map doesn't even have it nearly as large, and note the 850is much higher up so likely the wind field would remain smaller until landfall where it will expand per modeling vs shrink and dissipate more.
1630119522200.png
 
Katrina had cat 5 surge at 130mph because of its wide size. Camile which had higher winds, true cat 5, was smaller in size. However katrina surge was higher than Camile in MS.
How does forecasted Ida stack up in size, windfield expansiveness compared to Katrina verse Camile scenerio listed above?

It looks on the smaller side thankfully.....

FORECAST VALID 29/1200Z 27.8N 89.6W
MAX WIND 120 KT...GUSTS 145 KT.
64 KT... 35NE 30SE 20SW 30NW.
50 KT... 60NE 60SE 30SW 50NW.
34 KT...130NE 110SE 80SW 110NW.


Much smaller than Katrina, and smaller than Laura from last year even.....
 
New Orleans as a whole has also sank about 2-2.5 feet further below sea level since Katrina and the major loss of wetlands to their SE to serve as a barrier to storm surge is going to make this a very scary situation...You're probably, if not likely, fixing to watch a major humanitarian disaster unfold before your eyes.

I think it's prudent to sound an alarm for New Orleans and for people to get out, but New Orleans is in a much better place than they were 16 years ago as far as surge protection is concerned. The surge protection system is very different than it was for Katrina. It's certainly not immune to surge, but it is much better protected. There are multiple lines of defense to stop surge, and surge is no longer allowed "inside" the city like it was before.

The city as a whole has not sunk an additional two feet. Some areas of New Orleans East and the Lower Ninth/St Bernard parish line have subsided about half that, but on a whole, the city sits on average a couple inches further down than before, and that average is skewed because of the extreme outliers. You'll see news stories mentioning rates of 2-3 inches per year, but that's for small portions of the city.

IMO, the major threat to the city these days is wind and rainfall within the levee systems. I think rain is the biggest and most likely threat. I have a very intimate knowledge of the storwater infrastructure of the city, and I have a little less than zero faith in it. The surge protection and outfall canal pumps are top of the line, but past that it gets scary quickly. An afternoon thunderstorm is enough to flood certain neighborhoods. If a train of tropical moisture sets up in the right spot, good luck. The system is theoretically able to handle 1" of rain in the first hour and a half an inch for every hour after that. At some point, due to crappy pipes and catch basins, the streets begin to act as conveyance. The city even uses 6" of stormwater storage capacity for all the streets in their calculations. It's mind-bogglingly idiotic, but whatever.

There is a possible scenario where a slow moving system keeps surge way up and dumps massive amounts of rain in the city. This would kind of fill up the areas between the lines of defense and outside the lines of defense, and once that area is filled up, it would flow back in to the city. It's a low probability scenario, but not a zero probability. A slower storm coming from a more SE angle increases the probability.

All that said, we thought the city was safe last time. It wasn't. We think the city is safe this time. We all hope it is as Ida is looking like no joke for SELA.

Source:
<-- worked on flood control for a decade in New Orleans following Katrina. I am by now means the end all be all authority, but I do have a pretty in depth knowledge of the water systems in the metro Nola area, especially the east bank portions. It has been six years since I worked in the area, so some of my information could be out-dated.
 
More guidance shifting east tonight that’s odd curious to see if the euro bites I think it will
 
At 02:46Z, a 987 SURFCE PRESSURE was located at 22.917N 83.917W. Recon found 74knot Surface Winds.

There's Max winds of over 100MPH found on dropsonde at a height of 914Mbs.
 
Thanks guys. Katrina eye went east NO. This will be west, way it looks now. That will be harder hit from that standpoint as it pushes water back up river. However the lake will be getting pushed away from metro , se wind until backside. Beleive the breaches where from lake, north flow on north side metro pushing down on levees Katrina. NO will get a double punch from this projected track.
 
I think it's prudent to sound an alarm for New Orleans and for people to get out, but New Orleans is in a much better place than they were 16 years ago as far as surge protection is concerned. The surge protection system is very different than it was for Katrina. It's certainly not immune to surge, but it is much better protected. There are multiple lines of defense to stop surge, and surge is no longer allowed "inside" the city like it was before.

The city as a whole has not sunk an additional two feet. Some areas of New Orleans East and the Lower Ninth/St Bernard parish line have subsided about half that, but on a whole, the city sits on average a couple inches further down than before, and that average is skewed because of the extreme outliers. You'll see news stories mentioning rates of 2-3 inches per year, but that's for small portions of the city.

IMO, the major threat to the city these days is wind and rainfall within the levee systems. I think rain is the biggest and most likely threat. I have a very intimate knowledge of the storwater infrastructure of the city, and I have a little less than zero faith in it. The surge protection and outfall canal pumps are top of the line, but past that it gets scary quickly. An afternoon thunderstorm is enough to flood certain neighborhoods. If a train of tropical moisture sets up in the right spot, good luck. The system is theoretically able to handle 1" of rain in the first hour and a half an inch for every hour after that. At some point, due to crappy pipes and catch basins, the streets begin to act as conveyance. The city even uses 6" of stormwater storage capacity for all the streets in their calculations. It's mind-bogglingly idiotic, but whatever.

There is a possible scenario where a slow moving system keeps surge way up and dumps massive amounts of rain in the city. This would kind of fill up the areas between the lines of defense and outside the lines of defense, and once that area is filled up, it would flow back in to the city. It's a low probability scenario, but not a zero probability. A slower storm coming from a more SE angle increases the probability.

All that said, we thought the city was safe last time. It wasn't. We think the city is safe this time. We all hope it is as Ida is looking like no joke for SELA.

Source:
QUOTE]


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Could I quote this on my site with your name?
 
I think it's prudent to sound an alarm for New Orleans and for people to get out, but New Orleans is in a much better place than they were 16 years ago as far as surge protection is concerned. The surge protection system is very different than it was for Katrina. It's certainly not immune to surge, but it is much better protected. There are multiple lines of defense to stop surge, and surge is no longer allowed "inside" the city like it was before.

The city as a whole has not sunk an additional two feet. Some areas of New Orleans East and the Lower Ninth/St Bernard parish line have subsided about half that, but on a whole, the city sits on average a couple inches further down than before, and that average is skewed because of the extreme outliers. You'll see news stories mentioning rates of 2-3 inches per year, but that's for small portions of the city.

IMO, the major threat to the city these days is wind and rainfall within the levee systems. I think rain is the biggest and most likely threat. I have a very intimate knowledge of the storwater infrastructure of the city, and I have a little less than zero faith in it. The surge protection and outfall canal pumps are top of the line, but past that it gets scary quickly. An afternoon thunderstorm is enough to flood certain neighborhoods. If a train of tropical moisture sets up in the right spot, good luck. The system is theoretically able to handle 1" of rain in the first hour and a half an inch for every hour after that. At some point, due to crappy pipes and catch basins, the streets begin to act as conveyance. The city even uses 6" of stormwater storage capacity for all the streets in their calculations. It's mind-bogglingly idiotic, but whatever.

There is a possible scenario where a slow moving system keeps surge way up and dumps massive amounts of rain in the city. This would kind of fill up the areas between the lines of defense and outside the lines of defense, and once that area is filled up, it would flow back in to the city. It's a low probability scenario, but not a zero probability. A slower storm coming from a more SE angle increases the probability.

All that said, we thought the city was safe last time. It wasn't. We think the city is safe this time. We all hope it is as Ida is looking like no joke for SELA.

Source:
<-- worked on flood control for a decade in New Orleans following Katrina. I am by now means the end all be all authority, but I do have a pretty in depth knowledge of the water systems in the metro Nola area, especially the east bank portions. It has been six years since I worked in the area, so some of my information could be out-dated.
I’m not sure I would say for definite that surge is “not allowed” inside the city. Though I do pray that you’re right. The fact is this storm appears to be coming in at an angle that is probably the worst case scenario for New Orleans. While I do think the levees will hold and not break, I’m concerned we may see water going over the top of the levees if this thing reaches strong cat. 4/5 at landfall
 
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