Avalanche
Member
History and probability are important factors to consider. I’m not going to point fingers but it seems logic wasn’t applied here.
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Misc General Banter Thread
- Thread starter Rain Cold
- Start date
25+ children are dead because the river rose 26 feet in 45 minutes. To blame this on a 10-22% staff shortage, or even mentioning within 24 hours is pure political excrement, but it’s par for the course.
Avalanche
Member
The current conditions the camp leaders were witnessing should have mobilized them to safer areas. They waited way too long IMO.
I don’t know the terrain there, but I would imagine it’s quite hilly, and for 6-8 inches of rain to cause a river to rise the much that quickly, that had to be a large surface area draining into one river. For some reason there was a camp there.
Brent
Member
Crazy it's been there for 100 years too
There's a lot I don't understand about this story yet but let's be clear they had plenty of warnings
Also I don't know for sure down there but we ain't that far away up here and it's been insanely wet for months. San Antonio also had a deadly flood just a few weeks ago during the rush hour. 13 people dead in their cars
Brent
Member
when it rises that fast theres not much you can do
One of my cardinal rules; we will never stay in a place where flash floods like that are possible and never will my kids go to where it could happen.
I remember being in Buck's Pocket State Park and watching the creek there go from bone dry to three or four feet above flood stage in five minutes. Stuff nightmares are made of.
Avalanche
Member
Sadly these folks didn’t have the chance to learn and live. Those that did survive will never allow this to happen again. I’m really sad for the loved ones of those that lost their lives. Seems so unavoidable, and likely is, but that kind of quick flooding these kids have likely never seen so it probably seems impossible to ever happen in their minds.
There's a couple in western NC that are a tragedy waiting to happen.
Having caught up this evening on the events, there are a lot of questions needing answers from the county government in that part of TX. NWS issued warnings specifically referencing river camps hours before the flood. Neighboring counties received push notifications via reverse 911 and mobile networks, but not Kerr County where the camp was. This is apparently a very well-to-do county with some very highly paid county executives that need to answer why they had no siren system like neighboring counties and relied on a Facebook page to get evacuation alerts out.
The pictures from the Camp today show all the buildings seemingly intact and one or two fences knocked over. Very high water marks certainly, but not destruction. What a sad and probably preventable tragedy.
This picture is from the New York Times today of Camp Mystic. Obvious signs of flooding but I would have expected more structure damage. There's a tributary creek that overflowed the 1 road going to the campground and by accounts of people from there they were basically trapped on the floodplain. Very sad.
Brent
Member
Yeah one thing I'm also confused about is the reports that the youngest kids were closest to the river. How does that make sense?
The other camps were fine for the most part. All the missing is the youngest
But yeah there's so many unanswered questions still. The camp director died and she's been there for 45 years. 45 years and dead just like that
The other camps were fine for the most part. All the missing is the youngest
But yeah there's so many unanswered questions still. The camp director died and she's been there for 45 years. 45 years and dead just like that
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Avalanche
Member
Just wanted to add I’ve seen this as well. As a teenager in Cary we had a creek that always flowed. It had fish, frogs, turtles, tadpoles, crawdads you name it. In the early 2000’s it began to dry up and it has no water and no life now.
Another one outside of Pittsboro same thing. Always flowed from my Grandfather’s generation 1920’s all the way through the 2010’s. It’s now dry with no life, on the rare floods it will have flowing water then dry again. No fish, crawdads, turtles, all signs of life gone
boobear
Member
I am guessing the older kids were further away to keep them from meeting boys from near by camps. I have been trapped by flooding twice. Once during Camille in 69 and at my neighborhood pool when my son was 8. How fast water can rise in a matter of minutes is terrifying .We were camping on Anastasia Island in 69. High tide was higher from the storm and cut off the island. The highest point on the island was the rec center. Ironically it was near the beach. We did not get a direct hit , but the water was just a few feet away all around the building. As I watched the trash cans float bye , I was not sure I would make it to 13. We were at a pool birthday party when my son was 8. The pool must have been made in what was a small quarry. You walked in next to a 2 story building that had changing rooms on bottom and a covered deck with a roof. The deck was also ground level since it was a bowl. Sunny one minute and pouring the second. We got all the kids up on the deck to wait for it to pass. To our horror by the time we had the kids all up , down below looked like a bowl of water. We had to hand the kids over the fence that was behind the deck. 30 minutes later it was sunny. I don't know how much rain they had at the camp. It was the rain that hit up river and caused a dam to break that cause the rapid rise. I hope they have alerts put in. I know place have sirens to alert when they release water at dams. With technology they could have them alternate sound with the word flood , fire, or tornado. Hopefully some good can be found in seeing and fixing places that need more warning equipment. Those poor babies
Brent
Member
Up to 69 dead already and still a bunch missing
I suspect there will be people never found... Probably too far downstream by now
I suspect there will be people never found... Probably too far downstream by now
Carolina Fever
Member
Yeah, it rose over 20 feet in 30 minutes. Just crazy.
This whole no warning thing grinds my grits. Every year we have situations where storms suddenly and unexpectedly train over an area and cause flash floods. I mean it happens in Birmingham at least once per year. Any EMA/official with sense in an already flood prone area should know this.
Brent
Member
Yup this is my problem with it too and the fact of the matter is there was a warning for life threatening flooding 3 hours before it started. The wording can't get any stronger than that...
Governor says the Kerr county EM official was on a jog at 3:30 am and nothing was happening and everything was fine; well a flash flood warning was in effect for over 2 hours by then
That's my problem. If people don't wanna receive warnings or do more research that's on them. We can't force people to act
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Avalanche
Member
True and yet so sad.
A 
by any other name is still a
by any other name is still a
Brent
Member
82 dead still 41 missing
We're passing a lot of hurricanes on death toll already
We're passing a lot of hurricanes on death toll already
Brent
Member
Just ridiculous that nobody cared til it was too late
Avalanche
Member
Listening to reports. That riverbed is the sole exit for rainfall. Hard to imagine no one could’ve prepared for this. Seems like after the first hour or so of rain people would’ve been compelled to move to much higher ground. After all, this area is a known flood prone zone. Headscratcher for sure
Brent
Member
Yup especially when it happened in 1987 and many other times
Yet everyone continues to flock there. Like the area is supposed to be rural
The 1987 floods in the Texas Hill Country | The Backstory
In 1987, 10 campers died during a flash flood along the Guadalupe River near Comfort, Texas.
www.kvue.com
Carolina Fever
Member
It seems we are seeing more and more of these types of flooding from tropical systems that aren't really major storms as far as wind but stall and dump a lot of rain somewhere.
In the grand scheme of things the flood in TX was a very localized event. People never seem to understand what FEMA is or what it does. In my industry we interface with them more often than I wish we did. There are no states (and I do mean NO STATES) that have the organization and spare capacity to handle a major disaster on their own. Even somewhere like Florida for all their experience with hurricanes can just barely manage if a storm hits in the middle of nowhere and makes a quick exit like landfalling in the Big Bend and scooting out east of Tallahassee.
FEMA's primary role is inter-agency and inter-state coordination. They know where the resources are, which are available, which are reserve but available in a pinch and so on. They also coordinate moving Federal equipment around and process federal disaster dollars. FEMA manages rapid-response medical stockpiles that can be delivered tomorrow wherever needed when HHS can't move quickly enough. The idea of giving that funding to states to manage on their own is laughable. Every county-level Boss Hogg-wannabe will have his fingers in the pot and when disaster hits, there won't be enough to manage even if personnel and equipment were available. A hurricane Hugo/Fran/Floyd/Florence scenario hitting NC or SC would collapse SCEMD without federal support. With hurricane/ice storms/blizzards often affecting neighboring states, who else could quickly come to support the area with expertise?
FEMA's primary role is inter-agency and inter-state coordination. They know where the resources are, which are available, which are reserve but available in a pinch and so on. They also coordinate moving Federal equipment around and process federal disaster dollars. FEMA manages rapid-response medical stockpiles that can be delivered tomorrow wherever needed when HHS can't move quickly enough. The idea of giving that funding to states to manage on their own is laughable. Every county-level Boss Hogg-wannabe will have his fingers in the pot and when disaster hits, there won't be enough to manage even if personnel and equipment were available. A hurricane Hugo/Fran/Floyd/Florence scenario hitting NC or SC would collapse SCEMD without federal support. With hurricane/ice storms/blizzards often affecting neighboring states, who else could quickly come to support the area with expertise?
Figured I'd put this here since it came up with my parents over the weekend. There's a ton of misinformation going around about the "bill" passed by Congress last week. My mother received an email (I thought it was spam honestly) from the social security administration alerting her that she no longer has to pay tax on her social security check. This is 100% false and if you or someone you know is counting on that please let them know it's not true.
The new law allows a $6,000 deduction for an individual over 65 or a $12,000 deduction for couples over age 65 for tax years 2025-2028. That's it. Taxes will still be taken out of social security checks and the deduction will only affect you if you're in the realm of "upper middle class" and paying taxes on other retirement income.
As a side note, the bill also brings forward the SS and Medicare insolvency cliff 1 year to 2032.
https://www.axios.com/2025/07/03/big-beautiful-bill-social-security
The new law allows a $6,000 deduction for an individual over 65 or a $12,000 deduction for couples over age 65 for tax years 2025-2028. That's it. Taxes will still be taken out of social security checks and the deduction will only affect you if you're in the realm of "upper middle class" and paying taxes on other retirement income.
As a side note, the bill also brings forward the SS and Medicare insolvency cliff 1 year to 2032.
https://www.axios.com/2025/07/03/big-beautiful-bill-social-security
Brent
Member
Just insane
Mason Dixon
Member
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/how-a-f...ystic-into-a-disaster-zone-2d57d0db?st=XUUU6M
Here's a good, detailed article about the tragic flooding in Texas this past weekend. I believe the NWS issued the warnings that it should have but, sadly, the flooding occurred during the early morning hours when everyone was asleep and with no sirens or alarms available to awaken the staff or campers they were not evacuated in time. I can predict that there are going to be several lawsuits filed against Camp Mystic due to the lack of an alarm system and warning sirens for emergencies such as this.
Here's a good, detailed article about the tragic flooding in Texas this past weekend. I believe the NWS issued the warnings that it should have but, sadly, the flooding occurred during the early morning hours when everyone was asleep and with no sirens or alarms available to awaken the staff or campers they were not evacuated in time. I can predict that there are going to be several lawsuits filed against Camp Mystic due to the lack of an alarm system and warning sirens for emergencies such as this.
Wow
Shaggy
Member
Just had to cut my grass again. Last time I cut it was the week of May 7th. This was only my 3rd mowing of the year
Brent
Member
GeorgiaGirl
Member
I really wouldn't be surprised if this was all she wrote for Camp Mystic, especially if they have lawsuits filed on them.
The PTSD is going to be too strong here and my guess is that the camp ends up closing up shop.
The PTSD is going to be too strong here and my guess is that the camp ends up closing up shop.
As it should with a granite memorial put in its place since this was not the first time it has happened.
NY Post
With the owner/director, Richard Eastland, having been killed while trying to save kids’ lives, it would be up to his sons. They all 3 work there in important positions. They may feel the desire to keep it going in honor of their father.
But if they were to keep it going, they should eliminate having sleeping quarters that aren’t at a high enough elevation. And of course establish a much better warning system. Of course, the next really bad flood hopefully won’t happen again for several decades.
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This unfortunately feels like what we expected out of Asheville in October
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All camp sites in flood zones should be closed. You should never go to sleep in a flood zone (unless you're in a raised, engineered, structure above the 500 year flood level). Flood zones are thoroughly surveyed in this country.
Brent
Member
Right? I'm amazed that camp has lasted for 100 years. It was named one of the most dangerous rivers in America a few years ago
And again has had numerous floods before just since Texas has been a state