• Hello, please take a minute to check out our awesome content, contributed by the wonderful members of our community. We hope you'll add your own thoughts and opinions by making a free account!

Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

Status
Not open for further replies.
When I posted the virus is losing its punch, I stand by it. No its not disappearing and no its not less contagious. I am in the camp its more contagious,but doesnt have the death blow it had early on. Mutating in a way so it can hang on, find more host to infect at the expense of being so deadly or severe. Hope that helps you webb.
 
I’m currently reading “The Great Influenza” by John Barry. I highly recommend this book. It’s about the 1918 flu pandemic. What caught my attention is how that virus started out as a very lethal virus in Kansas in spring 2018 but then it became less virulent through the summer as it spread worldwide (thanks to the US Army). But suddenly and without warning it became extremely deadly again in September 2018 and it continued to ebb and flow for the rest of the pandemic.

I don’t know if the coronavirus could do something similar; probably not but it’s worth noting anyway.
 
NCSNOW said:
When I posted the virus is losing its punch, I stand by it. No its not disappearing and no its not less contagious. I am in the camp its more contagious,but doesnt have the death blow it had early on. Mutating in a way so it can hang on, find more host to infect at the expense of being so deadly or severe. Hope that helps you webb.
Click to expand...
Do you also believe the virus is close to losing its “epidemic” status as you stated a few weeks ago?

I hate to break it to you, but when not only deaths, but case counts & the unreported number of people who suffer permanent lifelong complications from this virus, continue to increase with no long term sign of the actual rates changing for the better, sorry but the virus is not losing its punch. Maybe in your upside down, make believe version of the world it is, but for those of us who actually live in it and have the slightest clue about what’s going on, it isn’t.
When a vaccine is developed, deaths and case counts are falling and we don’t have to institute extreme social distancing measures to contain the virus, only then will it actually have lost its punch.

1594619122304.png
 
Last edited:
It can't be stressed enough that death counts & %ages don't tell the whole story, the often overlooked, long-term, severe, and potentially permanent complications from contracting covid-19 are something we're still learning about, but some of the initial findings are rather grim, including this recent one:

"Heart scans of Covid-19 patients show range of abnormalities Edinburgh University team find heart damage in 55% of ultrasounds from 69 countries"

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-seriously-damage-heart-study-suggests-085800292.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMtZ2kz5yuiebbhYFN66s0i13BP8gBqs8nZHkVu9AViTWY3RzhKl_i1Jn-dKrTPBVE28RdlXg1CaOuZJ5tDIA_8mpF88Xc4aVQv80p6EOCFRhdIqI1uAkjQE-pKOEBGAi6TfVqgu-f42ZV9aUQ0V4r66uyeNxukgqMTWB346Xkf4

Definitely sounds like covid is "losing its punch" :rolleyes:
 
Webberweather53 said:
It can't be stressed enough that death counts & %ages don't tell the whole story, the often overlooked, long-term, severe, and potentially permanent complications from contracting covid-19 are something we're still learning about, but some of the initial findings are rather grim, including this recent one:

"Heart scans of Covid-19 patients show range of abnormalities Edinburgh University team find heart damage in 55% of ultrasounds from 69 countries"

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-seriously-damage-heart-study-suggests-085800292.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMtZ2kz5yuiebbhYFN66s0i13BP8gBqs8nZHkVu9AViTWY3RzhKl_i1Jn-dKrTPBVE28RdlXg1CaOuZJ5tDIA_8mpF88Xc4aVQv80p6EOCFRhdIqI1uAkjQE-pKOEBGAi6TfVqgu-f42ZV9aUQ0V4r66uyeNxukgqMTWB346Xkf4

Definitely sounds like covid is "losing its punch" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
You can make your point without all of the sarcasm. I understand that this can be an emotional topic, but please try and stop with the berating tone. You do a great job presenting data and making your case with information. The constant back-handed comments and eye rolls are unnecessary.
 
I know early on hospitalization rates were running around 20%. If this number remains the same with this new explosion of cases then as we reach that 8 to 12 day range in infections when its reported most people take a turn for the worse we should see a big spike.

I believe treatment options are better than before so hopefully we can keep deaths down to some degree.
 
Rain Cold said:
You can make your point without all of the sarcasm. I understand that this can be an emotional topic, but please try and stop with the berating tone. You do a great job presenting data and making your case with information. The constant back-handed comments and eye rolls are unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Umm, anyone that continues to insist that covid-19 is "losing its punch" while cases, hospitalizations, and deaths continue to skyrocket (especially the former of the two), and hospitals begin to become overloaded w/ patients, and we're nowhere close to having this contained or a vaccine ready, not to mention we're only a few months away from the onset of the cold/flu season, you 100% deserve every eye roll, berating, & condescension that comes your way because this is actually a matter of life and death for many. Pardon my french, but any suggestion that the situation or the virus are getting better or less severe is utter fantasy and downright idiotic at this point.

I'm not going to hold my tongue and sugar coat or gloss over the grim reality here and the pure nonsensical bs that some have incessantly spewed in this thread since this past spring, I tell it like it is and how I see it, and I have 0 patience for the kind of crap that's been posted above by @NCSNOW and if that steps on someone's toes or hurts certain individual's feelings, so be it, because covid certainly doesn't discriminate or care about your feelings
 
Webberweather53 said:
Umm, anyone that continues to insist that covid-19 is "losing its punch" while cases, hospitalizations, and deaths continue to skyrocket (especially the former of the two), and hospitals begin to become overloaded w/ patients, and we're nowhere close to having this contained or a vaccine ready, not to mention we're only a few months away from the onset of the cold/flu season, you 100% deserve every eye roll, berating, & condescension that comes your way because this is actually a matter of life and death for many. Pardon my french, but any suggestion that the situation or the virus are getting better or less severe is utter fantasy and downright idiotic at this point.

I'm not going to hold my tongue and sugar coat or gloss over the grim reality here and the pure nonsensical bs that some have incessantly spewed in this thread since this past spring, I tell it like it is and how I see it, and I have 0% patience for the kind of crap that's been posted above by @NCSNOW and if that steps on someone's toes or hurts certain individual's feelings, so be it, because covid certainly doesn't discriminate or care about your feelings
Click to expand...
Well as I said, you can make your point and not gloss over it and not hold your tongue with data, information, and analysis. But time and again, we have asked people to be respectful of others and express disagreements in a mature way. Otherwise, we have seen time and again, especially in this and the political thread, that constructive conversation gives way to insults and jabs back and forth. You can effectively make your point without calling people or implying people are idiots. That seems reasonable.
 
Rain Cold said:
Well as I said, you can make your point and not gloss over it and not hold your tongue with data, information, and analysis. But time and again, we have asked people to be respectful of others and express disagreements in a mature way. Otherwise, we have seen time and again, especially in this and the political thread, that constructive conversation gives way to insults and jobs back and forth. You can effectively make your point without calling people or implying people are idiots. That seems reasonable.
Click to expand...

Huh? What disagreements? What is there to actually argue about here?

Last time I checked, cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are still increasing at an alarming rate, but yea covid might be "losing its punch"? Really?

Posts like that aren't "opinion" or to be argued about, they are just downright wrong in every sense of the word.


1594642649972.png
 
Webberweather53 said:
Do you also believe the virus is close to losing its “epidemic” status as you stated a few weeks ago?

I hate to break it to you, but when not only deaths, but case counts & the unreported number of people who suffer permanent lifelong complications from this virus, continue to increase with no long term sign of the actual rates changing for the better, sorry but the virus is not losing its punch. Maybe in your upside down, make believe version of the world it is, but for those of us who actually live in it and have the slightest clue about what’s going on, it isn’t.
When a vaccine is developed, deaths and case counts are falling and we don’t have to institute extreme social distancing measures to contain the virus, only then will it actually have lost its punch.

View attachment 44141
Click to expand...
That wasnt me stating it. That was an article saying the wHO was about to reclassify it because the mortality rate had dropped so low. Wouldnt qualify it. Not sure of there metric , but they have one
 
NCSNOW said:
That wasnt me stating it. That was an article saying the wHO was about to reclassify it because the mortality rate had dropped so low. Wouldnt qualify it. Not sure of there metric , but they have one
Click to expand...

So, do you think Webb is making good points? I wish he'd be more civil in making those good points though. We don't want this to degenerate to the level of AmericanWx's political forum of name calling and shouting.
 
Last edited:
This is the way I look a this whole thing. I assume the risks associated with venturing out into the world. There is a chance every time I go into public that i may contract Covid-19. And if i become ill from Covid, I have varying chances of either being asymptomatic, mildly ill, very ill, or die. I assume those risks, with every other risk that comes with leaving the safety of my home.

These are the choices I make, and i don't understand what the argument is about anymore. It's out there, and it's here to stay for a while longer. We can't make it go away, and If I get sick, well that's on me for going out in public. If you don't want to get sick, then don't go in public, but you have to assume the responsibilities that come with that choice.

Some of you want to control people and make them do what you think they should do. Let me make those choices, how i see fit for me and my family. Covid is here, and there isn't anything you can kick, scream, insult or cry about that is going to change that. If you don't like, go fuss at the Chinese.
 
Three adult teachers, one parent, and four children in our daycare have tested positive (all in the last two weeks). Two adults were sick, one has headaches and fatigue, the other remains asymptotic (she was tested because of the other cases). All the children are asymptomatic.

My guess is many more of us have it and are asymptomatic. In fact, I’d be shocked if I didn’t have it. I was in close contact (though not according to how the HD defines it) with the two teachers who became sick. It’s been 12 days since I was in close contact and still no symptoms for me.
 
Also, Wake Forest shows 14% antibody tests for the participants in a study. Most respondents in the Triad.

Link

Here's a cool map showing participants location and whether they were: Positive for the virus, Positive for Anti-bodies, Negative for Virus, Negative for Antibodies, or not Tested.

MAP
 
Last edited:
NCSNOW said:
That wasnt me stating it. That was an article saying the wHO was about to reclassify it because the mortality rate had dropped so low. Wouldnt qualify it. Not sure of there metric , but they have one
Click to expand...

So why would you repeat what that article said (w/o actually quoting it or providing a link) in this thread if you had any shred of doubt about its findings? As for the WHO reclassifying covid-19, that wasn't going to happen, I recommend backing up your source(s) from now on.
 
Since my earlier post we have learned that one more teacher and three additional children have tested positive. All asymptomatic currently.
 
At this point herd immunity policies need to be taken very cautiously. It doesnt look promising and we need to treat the idea of herd immunity with great pause until more data is available.

Coronavirus immunity can start to fade away within weeks, according to a new study which puts a 'nail in the coffin' in the idea of herd immunity

The study by King's College London, the first COVID-19 study of its kind, is the latest to cast doubt over the concept of so-called herd immunity.
www.yahoo.com
 
Shaggy said:
At this point herd immunity policies need to be taken very cautiously. It doesnt look promising and we need to treat the idea of herd immunity with great pause until more data is available.

Coronavirus immunity can start to fade away within weeks, according to a new study which puts a 'nail in the coffin' in the idea of herd immunity

The study by King's College London, the first COVID-19 study of its kind, is the latest to cast doubt over the concept of so-called herd immunity.
www.yahoo.com
Click to expand...
So we're going to be living like this the rest of our lives? :(
 
Webberweather53 said:
Winning! :(

Click to expand...

Still 9th in the world per capita (7th when removing microstates Andorra and San Marino), but at our current trajectory I’m not sure how many more weeks/months that will hold. Latin America is coming for us, though, as death rates in Chile, Peru, Brazil, Mexico, etc. are very high at the moment and I wouldn’t be surprised if some or all surpass us in per capita death rate over the next few weeks/months.

Belgium is currently the runaway winner for the worst hit non-microstate country with 844 deaths per million (over double ours). The UK is the worst hit major country with 660 deaths per million and counting (the US is currently at 416, FWIW). The death rate in the US is exceeding every country in Europe at the moment, though, so we are unfortunately catching up.
 
Hey Everyone! I am so thankful for all the knowledge that is being put out on this thread. The COVID-19 virus is something else. I would like to remind everyone to be respectful of each other when posting. The Admins and Mods have tried to be kind in letting you guys go. We've only put temporary bans in place for a few and shut the thread down for a day or two........BUT if you can't be respectful of others when you are posting moving forward....you may very well find yourself permanently banned from this site. Consider this your first warning! Do not expect another one.
 
Webberweather53 said:
Winning! :(
Click to expand...

That is sorta misleading. You really have to use per capita or deaths/100k figures to get the whole picture. Obviously a country like France, with 67m residents is going to be lower than the US (328m). Not saying France's deaths/100k is higher, just using it as an example (by the way it is). Also, we don't, and probably will never know, the true death count for certain countries, like Russia and China. Also, China isn't even listed there. I'd bet money they have more deaths than us.

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
 
Following up on the above post, excluding the microcountries San Marino and Andorra, the US is behind Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, and France in deaths/100k.

I'm not saying what we are doing to stop the spread is right, just presenting facts.
 
CamWX said:
That is sorta misleading. You really have to use per capita or deaths/100k figures to get the whole picture. Obviously a country like France, with 67m residents is going to be lower than the US (328m). Not saying France's deaths/100k is higher, just using it as an example (by the way it is). Also, we don't, and probably will never know, the true death count for certain countries, like Russia and China. Also, China isn't even listed there. I'd bet money they have more deaths than us.

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
Click to expand...

It's hardly very misleading wrt the US. We're also inside the top 10 per capita too. Not being technically first in that department is nothing to get even modestly excited or hopeful about and does absolutely nothing to take away from the main point here: our handling of COVID-19 has been absolutely atrocious and it starts at the very top via the president of the US.
 
Webberweather53 said:
We're also inside the top 10 per capita too. Not being technically first in that department is nothing to get even modestly excited or hopeful about and does absolutely nothing to take away from the main point here: our handling of COVID-19 has been absolutely atrocious and it starts at the very top via the president of the US.
Click to expand...

Never said we weren't in the top 10 per capita. I haven't looked at those stats, but I really don't need to in order to guess correctly on that. The point of my post was to put the tweet you posted into better context. I'm not going to get started with you on the political side as I've seen where that ends up.
 
CamWX said:
Never said we weren't in the top 10 per capita. I haven't looked at those stats, but I really don't need to in order to guess correctly on that. The point of my post was to put the tweet you posted into better context. I'm not going to get started with you on the political side as I've seen where that ends up.
Click to expand...

This is a total nitpick on your end and it's pretty obvious that changing from deaths to death rates hardly places it into any better context whatsoever.
 
Webberweather53 said:
This is a total nitpick on your end and it's pretty obvious that changing from deaths to death rates hardly places it into any better context whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Man, I don't know what your problem is. If you don't like what I posted, then don't comment or give me a thumbs down.

Of course changing the data from total deaths to deaths/100k or per capita is going to more accurately capture what the situation is in any given country. Throwing total deaths out there is purely for shock value. How else can you compare the country with the 3rd largest population with the 86th (Belgium)? Belgium's deaths/100k is more than 2x ours.

I remember taking statistics as a Met student, I would imagine you did too.
 
CamWX said:
Man, I don't know what your problem is. If you don't like what I posted, then don't comment or give me a thumbs down.

Of course changing the data from total deaths to deaths/100k or per capita is going to more accurately capture what the situation is in any given country. Throwing total deaths out there is purely for shock value. How else can you compare the country with the 3rd largest population with the 86th (Belgium)? Belgium's deaths/100k is more than 2x ours.

I remember taking statistics as a Met student, I would imagine you did too.
Click to expand...

Again, the difference in shock value is futile at best, oh man the US is only in the top 10 for global death rates! That certainly changes everything!

You know what they else they teach you in statistics? This funny thing called sample size. It's easier to get large variability in death rates when your total sample population is comparatively small & thus susceptible to noise
 
Webberweather53 said:
You know what they else they teach you in statistics? This funny thing called sample size. It's easier to get large variability in death rates when your total sample population is comparatively small & thus susceptible to noise
Click to expand...

You could say the same thing for US county data, or even state data. Cherrypicking stats to back your case up doesn't make it stronger.

I'm not going to follow up any more of your holier-than-thou posts after this, but I'll leave this:

Am I anti-mask? No
Am I a COVID denier? No
Do I practice the guidelines presented by various health organizations? Yes
Is this a real huge problem that isn't going away anytime soon? Yes
Are all the stats being flung around this thread inherently flawed in some way? Yes
 
CamWX said:
You could say the same thing for US county data, or even state data. Cherrypicking stats to back your case up doesn't make it stronger.

I'm not going to follow up any more of your holier-than-thou posts after this, but I'll leave this:

Am I anti-mask? No
Am I a COVID denier? No
Do I practice the guidelines presented by various health organizations? Yes
Is this a real huge problem that isn't going away anytime soon? Yes
Are all the stats being flung around this thread inherently flawed in some way? Yes
Click to expand...

I'd hardly consider looking at covid deaths from entire countries (not just subsets across the entire globe, many of whom have populations well into the tens-hundreds of millions) a "cherry pick".

Complaining about the difference in deaths vs death rates here as it pertains to the US w/ covid-19 is like a 3-13 NFL team celebrating after they're not the worst team in the league that season, the point is they still really suck.

Do the differences in deaths vs death rates actually make any meaningful differences about the general conclusions we draw from them?

No, of course they don't!

So why go on & on about it being "very flawed" when it doesn't change how we qualitatively perceive them?
 
Hello,

This thread is now unlocked. Please note that going forward I have instructed staff to lock this thread with no warning or questions if it turns into a crap show. It will be locked for 72 hours next time and follow the same guidelines that were laid out for the political thread 24hr/72/144/288/permalock.
 
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
 
metwannabe said:
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
Click to expand...
Great post! Thank you sir!
 
metwannabe said:
I'll get this party started with something for us to think about moving forward that might help in how we discuss this.

Shane (@SD ) mentioned somewhere about individuals having different perspectives about the virus and how it effects us (or something like that).
I think what sometimes gets in our way of having productive conversations about the virus is we struggle to view from another's perspective or life experience. For instance, SD is a cancer survivor (God bless you man) and therefore in a high risk category, he views this virus and how it's handled from that perspective, cautious and concerning perspective, and understandably so. My mom, who just turned 76 yesterday (God bless her too), grew up on a farm, hardest working woman I've ever seen, chopped the fields, pick veggies, worked in those Perdue chicken houses, survived broken bones, accidents and open heart surgery 2 years ago.... not to mention she has a deep christian faith. Those all drive her to say "you can't hide from sickness", living her life, no fear, no concern for what happens to her and that's an entirely different, and I also think, understandable perspective.
I've dealt with 7 co-workers that have tested positive, seriously disrupting our work force and operations, none got "sick", just mild symptoms and several completely asymptomatic, that shapes my perspective... Then you have those that have lost jobs due to the virus, that shapes their perspective, of course there are those that have lost loved ones due to the virus and that influences their's.

Not sure if I'm making my point, but our own life experiences tend to dictate how we approach this situation, it makes it difficult to deal with as there is no "one size fits all" solution to any of it. However, maybe just maybe if we tried to see from the other's point of view that most likely has been shaped by their own life experiences, then maybe we can have genuine productive conversation. Conversation that will not result in any additional thread lock outs.
Click to expand...
Perfect post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top