D
Deleted member 1449
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This is a simplification and a misunderstanding of Scripture. There’s a reason the Bible has two “Testaments”, literally two “covenants.” When I have time I will reply in greater detail.
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- Thread starter Cad Wedge NC
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This is a simplification and a misunderstanding of Scripture. There’s a reason the Bible has two “Testaments”, literally two “covenants.” When I have time I will reply in greater detail.
Dude. I know this. After the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, Christians should be following the teachings and scripture of the NT not the OT.
Jesus Christ is the NEW Covenant replacing the Old Law. Many times in the New Testament this is referenced. He replaced the Old Law of sacrifices by being the Perfect Sacrifice and thereby abolishing the Law. His law is Love, Grace and Mercy, not a list of hundreds of Dos and Don'ts created by people, most notably the Pharisees. He hung out with and used ordinary people/sinners like you and me to advance His Gospel. None of us approach anything remotely near perfect but through Him and by His Grace we are made perfect. We are to Love one another, not necessarily the Sin, but the person.
D
Deleted member 1449
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The OT has much value for Christians today. The issue isn't the OT, the issue is how to interpret and rightly apply it. The same is true for the NT.
You do realize the punishment offered in the NT is greater than the OT right? The NT takes the laws of the OT and applies them to the spirit.
mydoortotheworld
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I think the point is most Christians who condemn homosexuality don’t really condemn anything else listed in those verses that @tramadoc posted. You’ll see it over and over again how LGBT is “anti-Christian” and what have you but we never see anything from anyone about the other abominations that are listed in the OT.
Personally I believe that you can believe anything you want, but your right to exercise your beliefs end where the rights of others begin. Such as this: I may believe marriage is only between a man and a woman, but I’m not one to stop others from getting married just so as long as I still can get married to whoever I want, therefore I vote in support of marriage equality (or elect those that support it). That’s what makes America great and separates us from the barbarians that rule Iran and Saudi Arabia - places where women can’t drive simply because it’s not acceptable. Stupid. And America should not limit personal freedoms because someone said I cannot do what *they* believe is wrong.
Personally I believe that you can believe anything you want, but your right to exercise your beliefs end where the rights of others begin. Such as this: I may believe marriage is only between a man and a woman, but I’m not one to stop others from getting married just so as long as I still can get married to whoever I want, therefore I vote in support of marriage equality (or elect those that support it). That’s what makes America great and separates us from the barbarians that rule Iran and Saudi Arabia - places where women can’t drive simply because it’s not acceptable. Stupid. And America should not limit personal freedoms because someone said I cannot do what *they* believe is wrong.
I’m waiting on “Judge not, lest you be judged” next.
A quick couple of thoughts...I would say that there's plenty of condemnation by Christians of non-homosexuality-related things. Also, homosexuality is explicitly covered in the NT as well. So, I don't think it's fair to classify it as an OT sin, only. The Bible is very clear on it -- both in the OT and NT. Anyway, the other things is (and this is merely tangential to the conversation), pointing out a particular belief isn't the same as judging someone. Recognizing something you believe is wrong must also come with the recognition that you also have faults and are not perfect. There's an element of humbleness involved in that.
Half of what he listed was ceremonial law to separate Israel from the heathen nations that surrounded them. The other half is indeed very harsh, but it literally takes a minute to read why the very harsh laws were put in place.
Secondly this is indeed America and I don’t believe you can force anyone to love how you want. However, marriage has always been one man and one woman and for it to take a court ruling to change that is indeed sad as it is very sacred at least in word to many in this nation and those people had no say in it. If the government wanted to offer up the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples I can understand that, but to change the meaning of it without a public vote was wrong. That action kicked one pillar from underneath Biblical marriage and the other one is very weak to Christian’s shame.
Philstorm91
Member
But even in the NT Jesus clearly affirms marriage as being man and woman only (Matthew 19:4-6). Also the Apostle Paul alludes to the perversions of humanity from the created design after man rejected God. See Roman's 1, beginning at verse 20 or so. Yes, there are other sins in the NT as well. But much of what you listed is the ceremonial laws for the OT. Christ fulfilled the law for everyone. But when we believe on Him we live His life through us, doing what pleases Him, since we love Him. And having sex in anyway not intended by God does not bring blessings.
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There is a difference between marriage (legal terminology) and matrimony (religious terminology). I have a daughter who is LGBTQ and the a-holes and what they say about her send me over the edge.
That's sad. Being hateful to someone is wrong.
That difference has not been a difference until recently just as gender and sex has not been different until recently.
Whoa.... lots gone on since this morning.
I can't really add to what has been discussed. As mentioned Jesus was a fulfillment of the law as well as the perfect and holy sacrifice, meaning we no longer need to kill sacrificial animals for forgiveness of sins. We are also no longer bound by the law, following rules, laws, etc does not save you (legalism and I'm sure @Poimen can and will explain this much better than I) I don't have to eat a certain food, dress a certain way, etc... to be saved. My salvation is by grace alone through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17 Jesus own words - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".
He also expounds on the laws more as you read through that chapter.
@tramadoc I'll agree there are hypocrites in the church, the church is full of sinners to be honest just as a hospital is full of sick people... we don't go to the hospital well, we go because we are sick and need healing. I don't go to church because I'm perfect (far from it), I go because I need healing and to build on that relationship with my Redeemer. Christians really do hurt their cause when they proclaim one thing then do another but all of us will have to answer for our actions. I truly wish you wouldn't hold the entire church accountable for the actions of some (no matter how many it may be). I will add also and I don't mean this directly towards you, but sometimes the hypocritical argument against the church is misrepresented and what I mean is, I think too that some times individuals expect Christians to be perfect and when they aren't, then they call them hypocrites and reject God. We are humans and we aren't anywhere near perfect, don't expect us to be. Also I agree with @Rain Cold being hateful is wrong and anyone showing hatred towards your daughter is despicable and not acting a Christ would have us act.
God loves everyone unconditionally but that doesn't mean he loves sin.... again both things can and are true. All I can do is try to point people to Him, try to live a life representative of Him as best I can and pray.
I can't really add to what has been discussed. As mentioned Jesus was a fulfillment of the law as well as the perfect and holy sacrifice, meaning we no longer need to kill sacrificial animals for forgiveness of sins. We are also no longer bound by the law, following rules, laws, etc does not save you (legalism and I'm sure @Poimen can and will explain this much better than I) I don't have to eat a certain food, dress a certain way, etc... to be saved. My salvation is by grace alone through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17 Jesus own words - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".
He also expounds on the laws more as you read through that chapter.
@tramadoc I'll agree there are hypocrites in the church, the church is full of sinners to be honest just as a hospital is full of sick people... we don't go to the hospital well, we go because we are sick and need healing. I don't go to church because I'm perfect (far from it), I go because I need healing and to build on that relationship with my Redeemer. Christians really do hurt their cause when they proclaim one thing then do another but all of us will have to answer for our actions. I truly wish you wouldn't hold the entire church accountable for the actions of some (no matter how many it may be). I will add also and I don't mean this directly towards you, but sometimes the hypocritical argument against the church is misrepresented and what I mean is, I think too that some times individuals expect Christians to be perfect and when they aren't, then they call them hypocrites and reject God. We are humans and we aren't anywhere near perfect, don't expect us to be. Also I agree with @Rain Cold being hateful is wrong and anyone showing hatred towards your daughter is despicable and not acting a Christ would have us act.
God loves everyone unconditionally but that doesn't mean he loves sin.... again both things can and are true. All I can do is try to point people to Him, try to live a life representative of Him as best I can and pray.
And btw I certainly do take issue with other sins not just express a condemnation of homosexuality. Those who place more emphasis on one sin over another also hurt the Christians cause, God does not "rate" sin and neither should we. If we go to work and gossip with our coworkers about another coworker or even in the church with one another about this or that, we're guilty of sin, and it's just as painful to God as murder.
pcbjr
Member
Don't complicate it. The greatest commandment is what? And the second greatest commandment is what? If you can learn the answer and then live those two, chances are sin isn't going to be too big of a personal problem ...
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Can’t agree with much at all he says.
I don't agree with everything that I read but I like to get a feeling for what's generally going on. I'm just curious what parts do you not agree with?
I’ll try to go through it more deeply later, but I don’t agree with the whole “new thing” idea. Yes, God can use new ideas to his use, but he will not change his ways. He will not change to suit this generation. Just because a Rapper makes a gospel album does not mean he is a Christian just as Trump defending Christians and going to prayer meeting doesn’t make him one.
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