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Ukraine

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Jessy89 said:
Shaggy I’m just trying to have a reasonable conversation. I think while perhaps we would be able to hurt chinas economy. China could also hurt our economy because 80% of what on store shelves Is made in china. What happens when China says well your not getting anything else from us we going to stop doing business with the United States. Well shelves would be more bare then they are now. And when shelves do get stocked back up inflation will sky rocket more then it is now. I believe yes we can destroy Chinas economy but China can severely hurt ours as well. This topic has everything to do with Ukraine it’s what can really happen if China helps Russia I’m just discussing such a scenario


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That's not the intent of this thread so there's nothing to discuss
 
Cindy131 said:
There is a balancing act. I do not want us as police either. But as one of the top military and economical forces we do have to make our presence known. We can not ignore what is happening and we can not stand on the side lines and watch countries invading. In WW2 we stood on the sidelines until we got attacked. We ignored the European wars and millions died. As for Ukraine I feel for them, they used to have the third largest nuke armaments in the world. The Budapest agreement ( US, UK and Russia) with Ukraine stated we would respect their borders and etc if they give up and stop production of nukes. We have seen what happened. No other country is going to give up their nukes and I expect we will see a lot more countries making nukes now.
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I think you have it wrong. When Kamala Harris invited Ukraine to join NATO, that's when the invasion plans started. Russia having Annexed Crimea in 2014 would mean article 5 would have been automatically enacted. The US goaded the two countries into war. Reminds me of Iraq, libya, and Egypt.
 
China also has the most number of COVID ever right now and are having shut downs right now. If I was China I would be looking at what I can gain from Russia's economy tanking and the purging of power. I think there is more for them to gain by Russia failing and not pissing off the rest of the world by helping. They lost a lot with COVID and they may find more things be manufactured elsewhere . We learned it is not good to rely another country for all our chips and meds. With Russia confiscating businesses and property of foreigners , I would worry about the same with China. They need the rest of the world to buy their stuff , but nothing they make can't be made elsewhere and the void will soon be filled . It might cost more , but only because it won't be slave labor pay. Even people in China deserve to be paid a living wage.
 
boobear said:
China also has the most number of COVID ever right now and are having shut downs right now. If I was China I would be looking at what I can gain from Russia's economy tanking and the purging of power. I think there is more for them to gain by Russia failing and not pissing off the rest of the world by helping. They lost a lot with COVID and they may find more things be manufactured elsewhere . We learned it is not good to rely another country for all our chips and meds. With Russia confiscating businesses and property of foreigners , I would worry about the same with China. They need the rest of the world to buy their stuff , but nothing they make can't be made elsewhere and the void will soon be filled . It might cost more , but only because it won't be slave labor pay. Even people in China deserve to be paid a living wage.
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Except India, UAE, Venezuela, Russia, and Brazil are in a alliance with China. That alliance can make America poor overnight. America isn't the America it once was.
 
Harris did not invite Ukraine to NATO. Harris has no power to invite anyone to NATO. She did imply a week ago that Ukraine was a member of NATO (speech) which the White House did change. I know more then likely someone else wrote the speech but you think she would have read over the speech. Or else she believed Ukraine was a member.
 
Definitely Russia attacked in the winter due to temps and the ground. Warm temps definitely slow up the forces. I could see Putin getting more desperate and start using different methods of attacks. I do not think he was expecting this much resistance. He thought a show of force would work for a quick surrender. A lot of their people remember what it was like under Russian rule so they fight for their country and for their kids.
 
Russia invading Ukraine has a ripple effect. Other countries sometimes get involved. Economy’s of other countries hurt. The ripple effect of war is sometimes felt by many countries not just by the two that’s shooting and bombing one another. So just because we discuss china or other nations does not mean we are not discussing Ukraine/Russia. Y’all continue to post twitter links referring to sanctions. Or what the United States says in response to china etc. But when someone has a different opinion some of y’all like this isn’t about Ukraine. We can’t discuss that here. But in reality it’s all related and possible scenarios revolving around Ukraine/Russia it’s all a ripple effect


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Jessy89 said:
Well I’m concerned about china/Russia but I don’t blame china if they do help Russia. Let me explain as I’ve done before china and Russia are not NATO members. So China/Russia would be wise to align. Because china/Russia is stronger together then they are apart. NATO is a really powerful alliance. I can’t blame non NATO countries for forming there own alliance


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Align to do what? Kill even more women and children? They are aligning for one reason. They both have goals "longterm" of devaluing the dollar. Killing is just the nasty side affect of it all
 
Perhaps another miscalculation from putin. The internet and how quickly things can be viewed around the world will make the level of censorship he thrives for harder than in the past. We need to hope this speeds up the potential for real revolution there.

www.yahoo.com

How the West is breaking through Russia's propaganda wall

An international resistance of computer programmers and volunteer "information warriors" is racing to pierce Kremlin propaganda and expose ordinary Russians to the uncensored truth of a brutal war. They've built tools that allow anyone to surprise Russian citizens with text messages detailing...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Shaggy said:
Perhaps another miscalculation from putin. The internet and how quickly things can be viewed around the world will make the level of censorship he thrives for harder than in the past. We need to hope this speeds up the potential for real revolution there.

www.yahoo.com

How the West is breaking through Russia's propaganda wall

An international resistance of computer programmers and volunteer "information warriors" is racing to pierce Kremlin propaganda and expose ordinary Russians to the uncensored truth of a brutal war. They've built tools that allow anyone to surprise Russian citizens with text messages detailing...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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Case in point.....Arnie dropping truth bombs....

 
I think China will try to stay as neutral as possible and keep trading open as much as possible. They are probably planning to see how much money they can make off of Russian trading. They will be using Russia for China advantage and Russia will not see it. Russia will lose out while China will make a lot of money.
 
Cindy131 said:
I think China will try to stay as neutral as possible and keep trading open as much as possible. They are probably planning to see how much money they can make off of Russian trading. They will be using Russia for China advantage and Russia will not see it. Russia will lose out while China will make a lot of money.
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China shares a long border with Russia, they have to be careful here....China is all about money, thus the reason the US government keeps talking up sanctions, they know it works with them.

This is a long article but its a solid take IMO of why China is never going to let its relationship with Russia lead it to ruin...

 
metwannabe said:
Probably just more running off at the mouth here by Russia, they can't advance in Ukraine no way they could handle any action in another country

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They can’t handle boots on the ground in any other country. They don’t have man power they likely mean cyber attacks


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lexxnchloe said:
I agree. No American should die for a corrupt criminal regime in Ukraine.
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This is very narrow thinking. If we and our allies don't help all we can Ukraine then we will have WW III. We don't have to put boots on the ground. Ukraine is willing to fight. We and our allies need to give them all we can in weapons and support. We don't need to play into Putins hand listening to every threat of nuclear weapons and such he throws out there. Russia has had them over 50 years and we haven't let that deter us when the USSR was expanding. Putin is bluffing as he knows using them would be suicide as we and our allies have them too. He knows we will blink when he mentions them and that's why he's doing it. He is a former KGB assassin and is longing for the days of the USSR. He must be stopped now one way or the other here or we are all in trouble.

My 2 cents on the situation.
 
tazaroo said:
This is very narrow thinking. If we and our allies don't help all we can Ukraine then we will have WW III. We don't have to put boots on the ground. Ukraine is willing to fight. We and our allies need to give them all we can in weapons and support. We don't need to play into Putins hand listening to every threat of nuclear weapons and such he throws out there. Russia has had them over 50 years and we haven't let that deter us when the USSR was expanding. Putin is bluffing as he knows using them would be suicide as we and our allies have them too. He knows we will blink when he mentions them and that's why he's doing it. He is a former KGB assassin and is longing for the days of the USSR. He must be stopped now one way or the other here or we are all in trouble.

My 2 cents on the situation.
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This is a good post. There are plenty of ways to support Ukraine's efforts without engaging our troops. It would be nice to just do that and drop a lot of the public rhetoric.
 
Jessy89 said:
Just stay neutral so that we are not a target of something we don’t want to be a target in.


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I think rhetoric... Either right or wrong is getting us involved to be a target at some point. It may just be cyber attacks but something is coming eventually. Lindsey Graham's comment is what comes to my mind.
 
We get alot of Rubio tweets. This is the opposite



Its a bit sickening all the Zelensky worship. I dont know if Crenshaw is really this stupid(and im a republican) but come on, Ukraine is using propaganda, much of it false to lead us to war. If he honestly believes the only propaganda is coming from Russia then i have to question why a man of such low intellect is in congress.
 
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lexxnchloe said:
Its a bit sickening all the Zelensky worship. I dont know if Crenshaw is really this stupid(and im a republican) but come on, Ukraine is using propaganda, much of it false to lead us to war. If he honestly believes the only propaganda is coming from Russia then i have to question why a man of such low intellect is in congress.
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Crenshaw has probably seen more war than everybody here, combined, and understands war's consequences very well.

Just because people are willing to admit that Russia is the main antagonist here, doesn't mean they are saying Ukraine is free of sin.

Both can be true.
 
This thread lately whew.....

The US and other nations helping Ukraine are not being lead into a war by Zelensky.....this thinking is just flat out wrong. Ukraine has been invaded by Putin, they have done nothing to warrant that and this is 100% on Putin and Russia....Zelensky is proving every single day to be one hell of a leader, Ukraine is lucky they have him and not some Putin lackey like Yanukovych, it was his ouster by the people of Ukraine that started this by removing Putin's hold over Ukraine. Zelensky literally ran on a anti corruption platform and has done many things to attempt to counter oligarchs and corruption especially against the old school pro Putin russian speaking guys who are throw backs to Soviet controlled Ukraine.

This is not just about the Ukraine, there are much larger geopolitical things going on here behind the scenes, Ukraine just is unlucky to be the receiving end of it. If the Baltics had not been allowed into NATO they would probably have been the target since they have no real standing armies. Putin has been chipping away at Ukraine the entire time, Crimea, and the Donetsk and Luhansk breakway areas....

The US and NATO have to show that we will not allow Russia or any other nation to invade sovereign nations....that doing so is no longer acceptable and will be dealt with harshly.
 
Downeastnc said:
This thread lately whew.....

The US and other nations helping Ukraine are not being lead into a war by Zelensky.....this thinking is just flat out wrong. Ukraine has been invaded by Putin, they have done nothing to warrant that and this is 100% on Putin and Russia....Zelensky is proving every single day to be one hell of a leader, Ukraine is lucky they have him and not some Putin lackey like Yanukovych, it was his ouster by the people of Ukraine that started this by removing Putin's hold over Ukraine. Zelensky literally ran on a anti corruption platform and has done many things to attempt to counter oligarchs and corruption especially against the old school pro Putin russian speaking guys who are throw backs to Soviet controlled Ukraine.

This is not just about the Ukraine, there are much larger geopolitical things going on here behind the scenes, Ukraine just is unlucky to be the receiving end of it. If the Baltics had not been allowed into NATO they would probably have been the target since they have no real standing armies. Putin has been chipping away at Ukraine the entire time, Crimea, and the Donetsk and Luhansk breakway areas....

The US and NATO have to show that we will not allow Russia or any other nation to invade sovereign nations....that doing so is no longer acceptable and will be dealt with harshly.
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People are having a hard time separating Zelensky from the Trump impeachment and the Bidens. I get it, but we have to be careful not to become full blown Soviet apologists. That is dangerous territory for us as Americans.

At the end of the day what we can take at face value without having to go down any conspiracist rabbit holes is that Putin invaded a country for reasons that change daily, he's attacked his own citizens as needing a purification, he's cut them off from the Western world, and he's holding his own Nuremberg Rallies to justify his actions. I don't think Zelensky is a saint by any means, but he's not the aggressor and it's his country who is being invaded.
 
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