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Ukraine

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Arcc said:
I don’t know. If Putin has the ego we think he does, he may do something if you keep daring him to just to show he has the pair to do so.

Not saying this is what is happening of course.
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What is really scary is the possibility that he has Parkinson's or some other form of dementia that affects his thought process. Rumors' of this came out in November of 2020. My dad died of this. I remember him having hallucinations and thinking 2 men were in his room with guns trying to kill him.They also say he has been getting treatments for cancer.
 
Jessy89 said:
Well if the US or NATO keeps saying Russia going to use chemical weapons. Then eventually Russia will. Best thing to do is stop saying Russia may do this or that. If it’s a actual threat just warn citizens in Ukraine of the potential and move on.


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What we say or don't say doesn't make a lick of difference to Putin
 
boobear said:
What is really scary is the possibility that he has Parkinson's or some other form of dementia that affects his thought process. Rumors' of this came out in November of 2020. My dad died of this. I remember him having hallucinations and thinking 2 men were in his room with guns trying to kill him.They also say he has been getting treatments for cancer.
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My fear is he has reached the “so what” point where he has nothing else to lose.
 
boobear said:
What is really scary is the possibility that he has Parkinson's or some other form of dementia that affects his thought process. Rumors' of this came out in November of 2020. My dad died of this. I remember him having hallucinations and thinking 2 men were in his room with guns trying to kill him.They also say he has been getting treatments for cancer.
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Well if Putin has Dementia "too" we are in a world of sh*t!!!!! Don't need 2 world leaders who hallucinate with the ability to order nuclear strikes.....
 
Sandbar said:
What we say or don't say doesn't make a lick of difference to Putin
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That's right. And if it happens that chemical weapons are used, it'll be foregone conclusion that Putin did it. That's why we have daily reminders. Wink wink
 
tempo47 said:
biochemnucleardirtybomb alert next
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They've apparently forgotten about the dirty bomb category. I'm kind of surprised they haven't remembered to use that one in a while.
 
Rain Cold said:
That's right. And if it happens that chemical weapons are used, it'll be foregone conclusion that Putin did it. That's why we have daily reminders. Wink wink
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Even then I wouldn’t automatically blame Putin until it’s proven to be Russia/Putin


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Jessy89 said:
Even then I wouldn’t automatically blame Putin until it’s proven to be Russia/Putin


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Most will....without any kind of evidence or investigation necessary. And that's the point of the daily message calendar.
 
Rain Cold said:
Most will....without any kind of evidence or investigation necessary. And that's the point of the daily message calendar.
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Well this is because if chemical weapons are used then its going to be by Putin.....its laughable to even entertain the thought that the west would use chemical weapons in Ukraine....hell no one in the west would do it even in retaliation of Putin using them.
 
Hmmmmm interesting statements, China obviously trying to play both sides of this, I get it, they share a border and ideology with Russia, but they are much more pragmatic and know going forward that its better to align with the west than Russia.

 
Downeastnc said:
Well this is because if chemical weapons are used then its going to be by Putin.....its laughable to even entertain the thought that the west would use chemical weapons in Ukraine....hell no one in the west would do it even in retaliation of Putin using them.
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Someone in Ukraine might. Or some other bad actor operating in the area. There is more than one group that could do it, but we'll know it's Russia regardless. We don't really care much about truth. It feels much better to be intellectually lazy and have an enemy where we can sit on the couch and eat popcorn and stay glued to Twitter and wring our hands over all the bad things we see going on. Your first sentence, in fact, ends the debate on the matter...before the first attack even happens.
 
Rain Cold said:
Someone in Ukraine might. Or some other bad actor operating in the area. There is more than one group that could do it, but we'll know it's Russia regardless. We don't really care much about truth. It feels much better to be intellectually lazy and have an enemy where we can sit on the couch and eat popcorn and stay glued to Twitter and wring our hands over all the bad things we see going on. Your first sentence, in fact, ends the debate on the matter...before the first attack even happens.
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Always beware of those who claim super-secret knowledge (and superior intellectual prowess) such as yourself, and always without proof, too.
 
Downeastnc said:
Hmmmmm interesting statements, China obviously trying to play both sides of this, I get it, they share a border and ideology with Russia, but they are much more pragmatic and know going forward that its better to align with the west than Russia.

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Now is the perfect time for another foreign country to use such a attack. You can believe whoever you chose to as to who would be behind it if it happened. But me no I’m not going to just assume it’s Putin because the United States says it is. I don’t even trust our own country much anymore


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Sandbar said:
What we say or don't say doesn't make a lick of difference to Putin
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Exactly. Folks need to learn how US intelligence works.

The nearly dozen times that US intelligence warned of an invasion in the weeks prior to it happening, were not dares to Putin. US intel raised the flags because Putin was moving pieces in place for AN INVASION!
 
Jessy89 said:
Now is the perfect time for another foreign country to use such a attack. You can believe whoever you chose to as to who would be behind it if it happened. But me no I’m not going to just assume it’s Putin because the United States says it is. I don’t even trust our own country much anymore


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Ok who....what other foreign country would chemically attack Russia on Ukrainian soil? Give me some options.....
 
Poimen said:
Always beware of those who claim super-secret knowledge (and superior intellectual prowess) such as yourself, and always without proof, too.
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Where did I claim to have any super-secret knowledge? I think being skeptical of the common wisdom of the world, particularly when emotional manipulation is quite the common tactic, is not a bad position to take. You of all people should know that.
 
I think in many way this should force counties to look to space. Having all the eggs in one basket is a disastrous idea for civilization.
 
Syria didn’t the US bomb Syria for using chemical weapons? Maybe I’m wrong but I believe the US/UK had a joint mission where they hit targets in Syria.


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BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Exactly. Folks need to learn how US intelligence works.

The nearly dozen times that US intelligence warned of an invasion in the weeks prior to it happening, were not dares to Putin. US intel raised the flags because Putin was moving pieces in place for AN INVASION!
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It was also a attempt to delay or even prevent the attack, it has come out that Putin moved the date a few times so it would not happen when the US correctly called it out to prevent making it look like the US called it right.
 
Downeastnc said:
Hmmmmm interesting statements, China obviously trying to play both sides of this, I get it, they share a border and ideology with Russia, but they are much more pragmatic and know going forward that its better to align with the west than Russia.

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China is who they are today because of the West. End of story. From consumerism, to knocking off Western tech, that is what built China in the later 20th, early 21st Century. They'll play both sides of the card because they have to.
 
Downeastnc said:
It was also a attempt to delay or even prevent the attack, it has come out that Putin moved the date a few times so it would not happen when the US correctly called it out to prevent making it look like the US called it right.
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I don't think that is an attempt on the US to prevent an attack if Putin's reactionary measure to the US correctly guessing the date was to move it back. US intel was on point and Putin had to adjust. The attack was inevitable and EUCOM knew it over a year ago even when the general public in the West couldn't give 2cents.
 
Downeastnc said:
Ok who....what other foreign country would chemically attack Russia on Ukrainian soil? Give me some options.....
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If you don't think there is historical precedent to support the possibility of deception around something like this, then there's not really much point in discussing it.

I'm going to make a prediction. If the war drags on long enough in Ukraine, there is going to be some kind of chemical or nuclear "incident". Russia will of course be blamed. Eventually, that will lead to direct conflict between Russia and the west. We'll have to get involved, and our troops will be put in harm's way. I hope that's wrong, but that's the table that's being set right in front of us. And the western world won't require any significant evidence that Russia was behind the attack. It will be "trust us, we know." Lots of people will die because of "trust us, we know." That bothers me, particularly when the "us" we're supposed to trust has been caught being less than trustworthy on more than one occasion.
 
Rain Cold said:
If you don't think there is historical precedent to support the possibility of deception around something like this, then there's not really much point in discussing it.

I'm going to make a prediction. If the war drags on long enough in Ukraine, there is going to be some kind of chemical or nuclear "incident". Russia will of course be blamed. Eventually, that will lead to direct conflict between Russia and the west. We'll have to get involved, and our troops will be put in harm's way. I hope that's wrong, but that's the table that's being set right in front of us. And the western world won't require any significant evidence that Russia was behind the attack. It will be "trust us, we know." Lots of people will die because of "trust us, we know." That bothers me, particularly when the "us" we're supposed to trust has been caught being lest than trustworthy on more than one occasion.
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surely you jest ... ;)
 
Rain Cold said:
If you don't think there is historical precedent to support the possibility of deception around something like this, then there's not really much point in discussing it.

I'm going to make a prediction. If the war drags on long enough in Ukraine, there is going to be some kind of chemical or nuclear "incident". Russia will of course be blamed. Eventually, that will lead to direct conflict between Russia and the west. We'll have to get involved, and our troops will be put in harm's way. I hope that's wrong, but that's the table that's being set right in front of us. And the western world won't require any significant evidence that Russia was behind the attack. It will be "trust us, we know." Lots of people will die because of "trust us, we know." That bothers me, particularly when the "us" we're supposed to trust has been caught being lest than trustworthy on more than one occasion.
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There is only one nation who invaded Ukraine and has committed attacks on civilians, and they haven't once denied it, so acting like the burden of proof bar needs to be raised if chemical weapons are used against Ukrainian Forces/Ukrainian civilians is weird to me......

Again, proof is subjective where narratives get in the way.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
There is only one nation who invaded Ukraine and has committed attacks on civilians, and they haven't once denied it, so acting like the burden of proof bar needs to be raised if chemical weapons are used against Ukrainian Forces/Ukrainian civilians is weird to me......

Again, proof is subjective where narratives get in the way.
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Syria could use chemical weapons while the world blames Russian


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Rain Cold said:
Where did I claim to have any super-secret knowledge? I think being skeptical of the common wisdom of the world, particularly when emotional manipulation is quite the common tactic, is not a bad position to take. You of all people should know that.
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It doesn't come off as skepticism. It comes off as you know things others don't know. This is pretty typical for those who always dabble in conspiracy theories, btw. I'm sorry if you can't see that but that's exactly how you come off when you come in here talking like this.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Syria is a Russian ally, brought to Ukraine under Russian leadership, fighting for a Russian cause. You're splitting hairs here.
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Sure but if Syria did it. Then Syria did it! Would they do it in support of Russia well yes but it still not Russia fault if Syria did it.


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BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Right because obviously it happened in a vacuum where Russia had zero influence and provided zero assistance.

In this hypothetical scenario, the entire reason Syria would be involved is because of Russia.
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That’s like saying if The UK nuked another country. America is responsible because UK and USA are ally’s


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BlueRidgeFolklore said:
There is only one nation who invaded Ukraine and has committed attacks on civilians, and they haven't once denied it, so acting like the burden of proof bar needs to be raised if chemical weapons are used against Ukrainian Forces/Ukrainian civilians is weird to me......

Again, proof is subjective where narratives get in the way.
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If some event is going to be used to get us directly involved in what would be the most significant engagement of our lifetimes, to not demand proof of matters pertaining to that event seems really weird. We live in a country where the idea of innocent until proven guilty is at the center of our ideals, so much so that it is one of the pillars of our nation. Why would we abandon that notion when it comes to someone or some country we know to be bad, particularly when the repercussions are so great? I think we can say Putin is a bad guy and stand against him, while at the same time being careful to demand truth before rushing into a precarious, potentially dire situation.
 
Jessy89 said:
That’s like saying if The UK nuked another country. America is responsible because UK and USA are ally’s


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Good Lord, No it wouldn't.

Syria can be an ally and still stay on the sidelines of a Russian war. What you are describing is a direct participation.

Saying that only Syria would be held responsible if they used weapons in a Russian war would be akin to saying that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11 because AQ carried out the attacks.
 
Poimen said:
It doesn't come off as skepticism. It comes off as you know things others don't know. This is pretty typical for those who always dabble in conspiracy theories, btw. I'm sorry if you can't see that but that's exactly how you come off when you come in here talking like this.
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I don't know anything about this situation that others don't know. I suspect I believe things that others don't believe, or more accurately don't believe things that others believe. I believe it's intellectually lazy to buy into all of the statements put forward and posted so frequently here, and blithely dismiss anything counter as Russian propaganda or conspiracy theory. You don't really have to be a conspiracy theorist to expect misinformation, especially when so much is on the line, but I understand why you would insinuate that.

Edit: And I'm not trying to call anyone out for posting anything they want to post in here. All of the information out there should be available. I'm just saying that I think it's unwise to believe all of it, just because we come in with certain viewpoints, and get so ginned up that we don't think critically about it. This could be an important one to make sure we get right.
 
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