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Stormlover said:
Are you freaking serious? The White House? That's insane, but you believe that?
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Sure the Trump WH is slam full of leaks.....but in the end it does not matter really whether it came from a leak in the WH or Bolton himself, what really matters is that Bolton confirms the House articles on impeachment are valid.
 
Downeastnc said:
Bolton has confirmed it is what he said through his lawyer.......they blame the WH for leaking it....

What do you mean by the bolded line?
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Just like I don't want to pay my taxes and I withhold paying them until the very last minute...in fact, my adviser (my wife for instance) reminds me that not paying said taxes is wrong and could have harsh consequences, so I begrudgingly pay them before the deadline. The county or state or feds doesn't come after me because I didn't want to pay them because in the end I actually did pay them.
Just because he didn't want to give them the aid didn't mean he had no intention of doing so.... tons of hearsay with this so called hearing and all the witnesses/evidence they wanted could've been presented when the house had their chance.

Btw for all the anti-trump or never-trumpers, don't kid yourself. If they remove him, you're not getting Pence as your POTUS, oh sure maybe for a very short stint, but they're already trying to link him to all of this also and either 1) they will try a quick impeachment of him before the election or (and more likely) 2) will drag his name through the mud, trying to link him to all the lies and scams that he has noway of winning in November. Then your stuck with Sanders or Warren or someone from the socialist left, congratulations. When your 2nd amendment is wiped out in a couple of years and infanticide is the legalized, I hope you find solace in your victory of ousting a duly elected president.
 
metwannabe said:
Just like I don't want to pay my taxes and I withhold paying them until the very last minute...in fact, my adviser (my wife for instance) reminds me that not paying said taxes is wrong and could have harsh consequences, so I begrudgingly pay them before the deadline. The county or state or feds doesn't come after me because I didn't want to pay them because in the end I actually did pay them.
Just because he didn't want to give them the aid didn't mean he had no intention of doing so.... tons of hearsay with this so called hearing and all the witnesses/evidence they wanted could've been presented when the house had their chance.

Btw for all the anti-trump or never-trumpers, don't kid yourself. If they remove him, you're not getting Pence as your POTUS, oh sure maybe for a very short stint, but they're already trying to link him to all of this also and either 1) they will try a quick impeachment of him before the election or (and more likely) 2) will drag his name through the mud, trying to link him to all the lies and scams that he has noway of winning in November. Then your stuck with Sanders or Warren or someone from the socialist left, congratulations. When your 2nd amendment is wiped out in a couple of years and infanticide is the legalized, I hope you find solace in your victory of ousting a duly elected president.
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Your wrong about withholding aid, first off it was illegal to do period.....second Trump only released the aid because he got caught.....its a false narrative that no wrong was done since "Trump released the aid anyways"....its like saying you cant be guilty of robbing a bank if you give the money back...
 
metwannabe said:
Just like I don't want to pay my taxes and I withhold paying them until the very last minute...in fact, my adviser (my wife for instance) reminds me that not paying said taxes is wrong and could have harsh consequences, so I begrudgingly pay them before the deadline. The county or state or feds doesn't come after me because I didn't want to pay them because in the end I actually did pay them.
Just because he didn't want to give them the aid didn't mean he had no intention of doing so.... tons of hearsay with this so called hearing and all the witnesses/evidence they wanted could've been presented when the house had their chance.

Btw for all the anti-trump or never-trumpers, don't kid yourself. If they remove him, you're not getting Pence as your POTUS, oh sure maybe for a very short stint, but they're already trying to link him to all of this also and either 1) they will try a quick impeachment of him before the election or (and more likely) 2) will drag his name through the mud, trying to link him to all the lies and scams that he has noway of winning in November. Then your stuck with Sanders or Warren or someone from the socialist left, congratulations. When your 2nd amendment is wiped out in a couple of years and infanticide is the legalized, I hope you find solace in your victory of ousting a duly elected president.
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If Trump is removed fast enough, maybe that would allow time for Kasich, Haley or someone else to challenge Pence and become the nominee. Your thoughts about this possibility?
 
Downeastnc said:
Your wrong about withholding aid, first off it was illegal to do period.....second Trump only released the aid because he got caught.....its a false narrative that no wrong was done since "Trump released the aid anyways"....its like saying you cant be guilty of robbing a bank if you give the money back...
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Robbing the bank is a bad example, the crime has already been committed... anyway he has every right as POTUS to withhold aid while looking into corruption of any kind. If withholding of aid is a crime, then we need to bring back some previous Pres and have at it.
 
GaWx said:
If Trump is removed fast enough, maybe that would allow time for Kasich, Haley or someone else to challenge Pence and become the nominee. Your thoughts about this possibility?
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Kasich is a Dem in GOP clothing, not interested.... I'm all for Haley, who by the way, supports Trump fully and thanks this impeachment is a scam. She's not interested right now because she is a loyal supporter.
 
You Dems can try as hard as you may to seperate Trump voters from Trump. THE 2020 election depends on it. Cause you know you want beat a Capitalist candidate with a Socialist. Democrats can not afford to debate head to head on the issues. This is their only hope.

We are Trump suporters because of the idealogy he he campaigned on and he held true to his promises, delivered. These petty garbage attempts to oust him over made up charges arent doing anything but making 60 million voters dig our heels in harder.
Gawx all your Schiff claims where shot down Sat morning and proved by Trumps lawyers of their falacy. It is continuing today.
 
Downeastnc said:
Sure the Trump WH is slam full of leaks.....but in the end it does not matter really whether it came from a leak in the WH or Bolton himself, what really matters is that Bolton confirms the House articles on impeachment are valid.
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and he has an axe to grind and a book to sell, and has been refuted already by the DOJ among others...the articles are bogus as hell
 
GaWx said:
If Trump is removed fast enough, maybe that would allow time for Kasich, Haley or someone else to challenge Pence and become the nominee. Your thoughts about this possibility?
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Spoken like a Democrat, not a conservative at all. Kasich should switch like Bloomberg.
 
NCSNOW said:
You Dems can try as hard as you may to seperate Trump voters from Trump. THE 2020 election depends on it. Cause you know you want beat a Capitalist candidate with a Socialist. Democrats can not afford to debate head to head on the issues. This is their only hope.

We are Trump suporters because of the idealogy he he campaigned on and he held true to his promises, delivered. These petty garbage attempts to oust him over made up charges arent doing anything but making 60 million voters dig our heels in harder.
Gawx all your Schiff claims where shot down Sat morning and proved by Trumps lawyers of their falacy. It is continuing today.
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In case you may be referring to me as one of the Dems, I'm not one of the Dems at all. I'm a right of center independent who has voted mainly GOP and who very much would oppose a socialist like Sanders or Warren. I'd much rather have a right of center Republican like Kasich and maybe even Haley. I despise the constant hypocrisy of the progressive wing of the Dem party and the desire to label everyone as a member of whatever group, promote class warfare, and even promote their brand of racism. I've frequented the American Wx political forum over the years and find most of the regular progressive posters there to be hypocrites, intolerant, and downright nasty. For example, you should see how they treat @Rain Cold if you haven't been there.
 
GaWx said:
If Trump is removed fast enough, maybe that would allow time for Kasich, Haley or someone else to challenge Pence and become the nominee. Your thoughts about this possibility?
Click to expand...

Haley is wonderful but she has said on numerous occasions the President did nothing wrong with this phone call and she doesn't support impeachment. She must be out of her deranged mind to not see what is so black and white so she surely couldnt be fit for office right?
 
metwannabe said:
Robbing the bank is a bad example, the crime has already been committed... anyway he has every right as POTUS to withhold aid while looking into corruption of any kind. If withholding of aid is a crime, then we need to bring back some previous Pres and have at it.
Click to expand...

Maybe there is plenty of gray area there but it definitely does not allow for Trump to withhold that money to force the Ukrainians to go after Biden, this is abuse of power because Trump gains from it personally. IF all Trump did was ask the Ukraine on a phone call to look into Biden that in of itself is bad enough but probably would not rise to impeachable, but Trump put that aid on hold and told the Ukrainians that in order to get that money they had to go after Biden, that is how Trump made this a huge abuse of power.....he used taxpayer money to try and force a foreign government to do something he personally benefits from.....that is impeachable. Trump has lied every single step of the way, when he denies it it is no different than when Clinton stood in front of America and said " I did not have sexual relations with that women"....
 
Downeastnc said:
Maybe there is plenty of gray area there but it definitely does not allow for Trump to withhold that money to force the Ukrainians to go after Biden, this is abuse of power because Trump gains from it personally. IF all Trump did was ask the Ukraine on a phone call to look into Biden that in of itself is bad enough but probably would not rise to impeachable, but Trump put that aid on hold and told the Ukrainians that in order to get that money they had to go after Biden, that is how Trump made this a huge abuse of power.....he used taxpayer money to try and force a foreign government to do something he personally benefits from.....that is impeachable. Trump has lied every single step of the way, when he denies it it is no different than when Clinton stood in front of America and said " I did not have sexual relations with that women"....
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The problem is this: I can't find anywhere, in the transcript, in witnesses, in any information out there, where Trump said "Pres Z, do "ME" a favor and dig up dirt on Biden because he is probably going to be my biggest political opponent in 2020 and I want to win that election. If you don't I'm not giving you the money". Besides, as Pres Z and all the witnesses have proven, Ukraine did not even know there was a pause on the aid, he never put pressure on Pres Z. Ukraine pres himself has said, he felt no pressure and there were no pre-conditions on the meeting.

Schiff tells an outright lie on the Congressional floor that is defended as parody, yet, you would have to believe his satirical speech to think that Trump committed an impeachable offense. You just can't have it both ways.
 
metwannabe said:
The problem is this: I can't find anywhere, in the transcript, in witnesses, in any information out there, where Trump said "Pres Z, do "ME" a favor and dig up dirt on Biden because he is probably going to be my biggest political opponent in 2020 and I want to win that election. If you don't I'm not giving you the money". Besides, as Pres Z and all the witnesses have proven, Ukraine did not even know there was a pause on the aid, he never put pressure on Pres Z. Ukraine pres himself has said, he felt no pressure and there were no pre-conditions on the meeting.

Schiff tells an outright lie on the Congressional floor that is defended as parody, yet, you would have to believe his satirical speech to think that Trump committed an impeachable offense. You just can't have it both ways.
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You would do well to research this a bit more......you wont find a direct communication from Trump to Zelensky, there does not need to be one, we have numerous people all with the same version of events telling us that is what happened. Ukraine did know the aid was paused back in July right after it happened.....the aid was officially put on hold right after the July 25th call and the Ukraine was aware almost immediately.....again you need to research this better a lot of what you guys supporting Trump post is factually incorrect or a very Trump colored glasses version of events.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine officials knew about hold on aid earlier than reported

A senior U.S. Department of Defense official testified on Wednesday that Ukrainian officials knew President Donald Trump's administration was withholding military assistance in July, undercutting a key Republican defense of the president's actions in the impeachment inquiry.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

“On July 25 a member of my staff got a question from a Ukrainian Embassy contact asking what was going on with U.S. security assistance,” Cooper told the House Intelligence Committee at the impeachment hearing.

July 25 was the day of a telephone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in which the Republican U.S. president raised the issues of an investigation of Democratic former Vice President Joe Biden, alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 presidential election and the aid.
 
Downeastnc said:
Maybe there is plenty of gray area there but it definitely does not allow for Trump to withhold that money to force the Ukrainians to go after Biden, this is abuse of power because Trump gains from it personally. IF all Trump did was ask the Ukraine on a phone call to look into Biden that in of itself is bad enough but probably would not rise to impeachable, but Trump put that aid on hold and told the Ukrainians that in order to get that money they had to go after Biden, that is how Trump made this a huge abuse of power.....he used taxpayer money to try and force a foreign government to do something he personally benefits from.....that is impeachable. Trump has lied every single step of the way, when he denies it it is no different than when Clinton stood in front of America and said " I did not have sexual relations with that women"....
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If you honestly believe what Trump has been accused of is so disgusting that its worthy of impeachment, your expectations for the presidency is downright laughable. You might as well never vote again in your life because if this sets a precedent going forward on what is deemed impeachable, we will spend the rest of our lives impeaching whomever is in office.
 
Downeastnc said:
You would do well to research this a bit more......you wont find a direct communication from Trump to Zelensky, there does not need to be one, we have numerous people all with the same version of events telling us that is what happened. Ukraine did know the aid was paused back in July right after it happened.....the aid was officially put on hold right after the July 25th call and the Ukraine was aware almost immediately.....again you need to research this better a lot of what you guys supporting Trump post is factually incorrect or a very Trump colored glasses version of events.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine officials knew about hold on aid earlier than reported

A senior U.S. Department of Defense official testified on Wednesday that Ukrainian officials knew President Donald Trump's administration was withholding military assistance in July, undercutting a key Republican defense of the president's actions in the impeachment inquiry.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

“On July 25 a member of my staff got a question from a Ukrainian Embassy contact asking what was going on with U.S. security assistance,” Cooper told the House Intelligence Committee at the impeachment hearing.

July 25 was the day of a telephone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in which the Republican U.S. president raised the issues of an investigation of Democratic former Vice President Joe Biden, alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 presidential election and the aid.
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And you would do well to not speak in absolutes, oh and also listen to all of the evidence. Those dates and "witnesses" were discredited within the first hour of the Pres team on Saturday... most of that is hearsay. And I'm sorry, if you are going to oust a Pres because of pressure he put on a foreign leader, demanding (as you and others say) that he investigate Biden or you're not getting the money, then yeah, there needs to be a direct communication to Pres Z from Trump.

I'll debate all day but when someone starts speaking to me in a terms like "you need to....", you start losing me.
 
It's almost like some can't see the forest for the trees. Why would anybody really waste time on if Trump knows Parnas or not? What does it change? What does it change if Trump talked to Bolton or not? Nothing. The media is sucking you in. 3 long years of trying to find a crime.....People got to learn the schemes of the swamp. Bolton could have been on tv or news shows and all kinds of stuff (including the House committees) before now if he really was concerned and had some huge evidence. But nah...put it in a book. A book that is not on the shelves yet. Leak or get someone else to leak (Vindmans brother?) and have the whole world going crazy to see what's in the book. Brilliant!! The left media would like us to believe it matters about Parnas and Bolton and again using a crook to get things done. Sweet victory is here finally, we found the nail they say. LOL! Give me a break. The illegal spying by corrupt three letter agencies and Obama is the BIG story. I actually think it's too much for people to grasp since it is so damn corrupt. But..it is true and needs to be addressed and exposed. But some people surreeee do not want that happen. Nor all of the other money making corruption either. Shhhhhh, don't mess with the swamp"s sweet deals or they will crucify anybody including the president that gets in their way. Mafia.
Of course it is very interesting that everything the dems bring up and push gives Trump the green light to go at them in public...It's almost like it's choreographed. Popcorn is in order.
 
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