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Shaggy said:
I went back and rechecked the article and it was outdated from June 3rd as trump was gearing up more tariffs and how much those tariffs would have cost the average family.......2k+ versus the average tax cut of $931 dollars.

As we know those tariffs were placed on hold making the article invalid. My apologies. Need to remember to check the dates better.
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Happens to all of us. Such as with average temperatures for some people.
 
ForsythSnow said:
Let's see how many of these things are or aren't directly tied to Trump's actions:
1. The economy took a slight boost due to cutting taxes on the rich and companies, allowing them to spend more even if the spending ins't on the employees, any spending and money movement will increase economic health. Trump here can take this to some degree even if most people don't see the money in their paychecks. I can say some I know have yet to see any.

2. Factor of the economy, but also because cost of living increases have driven more to get jobs. A good economy has that as a downside, but that's just economics. Other factors include the economic cycle, education, etc. Trump can only partially take this because economic cycles are a thing and population increases over time can help shrink statistics. He can't take all credit though.

3. Again factoring the economy. Almost the same as the last point. Education and job growth are owed to this. Also the force of laborers protesting low wages such as the teacher strikes and just general low unemployment means companies have to pay more to keep people since people can just go anywhere they want if they aren't paying well enough. Trump again can take some credit with the rest going to the cycle.

4. Education again and history. Trump hasn't done much for education as far as I have heard so him trying to make this his "doing" isn't valid. It also has more to do with small players and some companies trying to diversify their workforce.

5. Refer to the last point. Trump can't claim this either.

6. Refer to 4 again. Why is he even trying to claim this? It has nothing to do with his own actions.

7. Divorces, more independent women, an increase in feminism, more educated women, all social changes combined with an increased need for jobs due to a better economy helped make women more of the workforce than ever before. Trump can take the economic part but nothing else.

8. Uh yeah of course it has because people like me have to work and go to school to avoid the crushing student debt that has embraced the early Millennials. Also has to do with parents not wanting their kids living at home forever. Sorry Trump but you can't have this one. It's all social changes and shifts in the labor of who works what. It's either retail, restaurant, or some other low labor job unless you're a college student not looking for a job. Then you're not counted. This also raises another point. You're only counted as unemployed if you are looking. If you aren't you aren't counted. Keep this in mind.

9. Refer to prior about parents and social changes. I can't really explain this other than maybe those people are working low-non-long term jobs that the boost helped create. Only the economy boost goes to Trump. You can see where I'm going with this...

10. Policies lifting bans and such helped with this. Fracking, which is something I absolutely despise, has increased. This effects actual people and destroys the land and increases quake activity like in OK. Trump can have this greasy badge.

11. Just a GW point. We know Trump denies all climate change. Given that he isn't very environmentally friendly, he makes any attempt to reduce pollution look like evil. Whether it would really kill jobs is debatable. Not giving this a good victory to him myself. Take it how you want.

12. So? Government waste. Next.

13. Court packing at its finest. Again, take it how you want.

14. Steel is choking at the moment so the purpose of trying to save jobs is being lost. For national security? I'm laughing. I know China is a threat but what's the steel going to do? Hack us? He used the wrong wording. Still a loss if steel is suffering.

15. I can say this actually as a good thing that he did. China is a threat with cyber attacks. We don't need that in our country.

TLDR, Trump is trying to take trophies for stuff he barely had an influence in.
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I think you missed my intent in the post. Someone questioned whether the statements by Trump were true and suggested independent research would need to be done to verify it. My post was simply stating the facts, the economy and unemployment are strong right now. Whether one credits the economic prosperity to Trump, Obama, cyclical, social or other factors is a different discussion entirely but the numbers do point to a sound economy right now. My view on this is whether or not one thinks the president can take credit for the economy, it’s pretty standard for every president to say his policies are what produced a good economy, whether true or not. I think most Americans just want financial security and business owners want a solid economy and if those things are in place it makes the sitting president look good even if he had 0 to do with it. I do think things like tax cuts, lifting regulations and other policy decisions/trade deals can have a significant positive or negative effect on the economy. Whether one credits Trump with the sound economy or not, the statistics posted regarding the labor numbers are accurate which was my original intent.

Regarding the space force, many consider this a field the US needs to be involved in for national security. China and Russia are advancing in this field and to protect US interests and security it could be a beneficial field depending on how it’s structured. Think of the impact it would have if they launch something to take out all of our satellites, ones that are used for everyday business and national security ones (and weather watching). What if these countries put nuclear weapons in space, how do we defend against a threat like that? The idea of a space force is to protect the US in that realm since it is a real issue that needs to be addressed. As with any govt agency there will be plenty of money allocated there and wasted as well but imo it’s a good move to begin preparing.

Yes, steel outsourcing to other countries is a national security interest. Let’s say all our steel production in the US close down and we enter a war with China or Russia. Where will we get steel from if it’s all made there and elsewhere? It would take years to get plants back up and running in the US. That is why some consider it a national security issue but it’s a disputed point.
 
Arcc said:
I don't have a problem with anyone Christian not supporting Trump due to his morals. In fact I didn't vote for him for that reason and wont next election. That all said, all of a sudden coming out against Trump when you didnt at the beginning is hypocrisy to me or either a major donor threatened them too.
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I voted for Pence which was a vote for Trump. Pence is a true Christian with morals we can all stand behind. Besides, I just couldn't align myself with someone who supports the killing of our children and still call myself pro-life.
 
snowlover91 said:
I think you missed my intent in the post. Someone questioned whether the statements by Trump were true and suggested independent research would need to be done to verify it. My post was simply stating the facts, the economy and unemployment are strong right now. Whether one credits the economic prosperity to Trump, Obama, cyclical, social or other factors is a different discussion entirely but the numbers do point to a sound economy right now. My view on this is whether or not one thinks the president can take credit for the economy, it’s pretty standard for every president to say his policies are what produced a good economy, whether true or not. I think most Americans just want financial security and business owners want a solid economy and if those things are in place it makes the sitting president look good even if he had 0 to do with it. I do think things like tax cuts, lifting regulations and other policy decisions/trade deals can have a significant positive or negative effect on the economy. Whether one credits Trump with the sound economy or not, the statistics posted regarding the labor numbers are accurate which was my original intent.

Regarding the space force, many consider this a field the US needs to be involved in for national security. China and Russia are advancing in this field and to protect US interests and security it could be a beneficial field depending on how it’s structured. Think of the impact it would have if they launch something to take out all of our satellites, ones that are used for everyday business and national security ones (and weather watching). What if these countries put nuclear weapons in space, how do we defend against a threat like that? The idea of a space force is to protect the US in that realm since it is a real issue that needs to be addressed. As with any govt agency there will be plenty of money allocated there and wasted as well but imo it’s a good move to begin preparing.

Yes, steel outsourcing to other countries is a national security interest. Let’s say all our steel production in the US close down and we enter a war with China or Russia. Where will we get steel from if it’s all made there and elsewhere? It would take years to get plants back up and running in the US. That is why some consider it a national security issue but it’s a disputed point.
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Very well stated.
 
snowlover91 said:
I think you missed my intent in the post. Someone questioned whether the statements by Trump were true and suggested independent research would need to be done to verify it. My post was simply stating the facts, the economy and unemployment are strong right now. Whether one credits the economic prosperity to Trump, Obama, cyclical, social or other factors is a different discussion entirely but the numbers do point to a sound economy right now. My view on this is whether or not one thinks the president can take credit for the economy, it’s pretty standard for every president to say his policies are what produced a good economy, whether true or not. I think most Americans just want financial security and business owners want a solid economy and if those things are in place it makes the sitting president look good even if he had 0 to do with it. I do think things like tax cuts, lifting regulations and other policy decisions/trade deals can have a significant positive or negative effect on the economy. Whether one credits Trump with the sound economy or not, the statistics posted regarding the labor numbers are accurate which was my original intent.

Regarding the space force, many consider this a field the US needs to be involved in for national security. China and Russia are advancing in this field and to protect US interests and security it could be a beneficial field depending on how it’s structured. Think of the impact it would have if they launch something to take out all of our satellites, ones that are used for everyday business and national security ones (and weather watching). What if these countries put nuclear weapons in space, how do we defend against a threat like that? The idea of a space force is to protect the US in that realm since it is a real issue that needs to be addressed. As with any govt agency there will be plenty of money allocated there and wasted as well but imo it’s a good move to begin preparing.

Yes, steel outsourcing to other countries is a national security interest. Let’s say all our steel production in the US close down and we enter a war with China or Russia. Where will we get steel from if it’s all made there and elsewhere? It would take years to get plants back up and running in the US. That is why some consider it a national security issue but it’s a disputed point.
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Trust me no one is farther along in the space force dept than the US, the trick is not to talk about it or promote it like a idiot....the US has space planes that stay in orbit for years....what do you reckon they are doing up there?

As for steel production, things are not all rosy in the US steel industry, in fact they are shutting down mills initially reopened when the tariffs drove up prices and demand....https://fox2now.com/2019/10/04/the-entire-american-steel-industry-just-got-downgraded/

This leads into the economy which is not nearly as good or stable as Trump would want you to believe.....a strong stock market is a poor indicator of how well the economy is doing, things like GDP are much better as is other indicators like manufacturing, home and auto sales etc.........we could see sub 1% GDP growth some quarters next year or even negative growth quarters by the end of next year.....it might not be a full blown recession but unemployment and inflation will start to creep back up....but if he wants to take the credit when its good he has to own it when it goes bad as well.
 
Downeastnc said:
Trust me no one is farther along in the space force dept than the US, the trick is not to talk about it or promote it like a idiot....the US has space planes that stay in orbit for years....what do you reckon they are doing up there?

As for steel production, things are not all rosy in the US steel industry, in fact they are shutting down mills initially reopened when the tariffs drove up prices and demand....https://fox2now.com/2019/10/04/the-entire-american-steel-industry-just-got-downgraded/

This leads into the economy which is not nearly as good or stable as Trump would want you to believe.....a strong stock market is a poor indicator of how well the economy is doing, things like GDP are much better as is other indicators like manufacturing, home and auto sales etc.........we could see sub 1% GDP growth some quarters next year or even negative growth quarters by the end of next year.....it might not be a full blown recession but unemployment and inflation will start to creep back up....but if he wants to take the credit when its good he has to own it when it goes bad as well.
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Doubt it will be in home building that drags down anything.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/A17FB15A-2017-11EA-977E-488C59F73535
 
Bham 99 said:
I am not posting this to start any kind of argument, I just think it is very interesting and history in the making.. this has not happened in 10 years.

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Van Drew had no choice, the Dems where gonna primary him out, the local GOP is pissed because this guy voted with the Dems 85% of the time he is NOT a Republican, he did this to try and save his seat....the issue will be that the GOP has 2 or 3 guys with real Republican street cred who were battling it out to see who could run against Van Drew....they will be ready to primary him as well......but Trump will try to push Van Drew the Dem over the actual Republicans in that district ( how you think that will go over ) so he can rub it in the Dems face....so it is very interesting to see how this all plays out.
 
Arcc said:
Doubt it will be in home building that drags down anything.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/A17FB15A-2017-11EA-977E-488C59F73535
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Hmmmmm this article suggest exactly the opposite...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/04/harsh-housing-forecast-for-2020-especially-in-these-big-cities.html

"Home sales will drop, the housing shortage could become the worst in U.S. history, and home values will shrink in some cities. That’s the 2020 forecast from realtor.com, which holds one of the largest databases of housing statistics available.

It is a seemingly contrary assessment, given the current strength of the economy and of homebuyer demand, but the dynamics of this housing market are unlike any other — the result of a housing crash unlike any other.

“Real estate fundamentals remain entangled in a lattice of continuing demand, tight supply and disciplined financial underwriting,” said George Ratiu, senior economist at realtor.com. “Accordingly, 2020 will prove to be the most challenging year for buyers, not because of what they can afford but rather what they can’t find.”
 
Downeastnc said:
Hmmmmm this article suggest exactly the opposite...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/04/harsh-housing-forecast-for-2020-especially-in-these-big-cities.html

"Home sales will drop, the housing shortage could become the worst in U.S. history, and home values will shrink in some cities. That’s the 2020 forecast from realtor.com, which holds one of the largest databases of housing statistics available.

It is a seemingly contrary assessment, given the current strength of the economy and of homebuyer demand, but the dynamics of this housing market are unlike any other — the result of a housing crash unlike any other.

“Real estate fundamentals remain entangled in a lattice of continuing demand, tight supply and disciplined financial underwriting,” said George Ratiu, senior economist at realtor.com. “Accordingly, 2020 will prove to be the most challenging year for buyers, not because of what they can afford but rather what they can’t find.”
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I don't think it's contrary, just talking about two different things. Here is a quote from your article.

Single-family construction will increase in 2020, up 6% annually, according to the forecast, but that will not alleviate the supply crunch. Part of that is due to the very slow recovery of the nation’s homebuilders, who began rebuilding their businesses after the historic housing crash mostly in the move-up and luxury markets.
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Sometimes I question how the mental gymnastics work in politics. I use to feel this way about liberals during obama's years. The dodging they had to do to avoid realizing the clear and basic truth of some of his scandals. Did they really believe he knew nothing of the fast and furious before it broke on the news.....of course they believed that.

So to my point. Hearing this new talking point that Pelosi is holding the articles because she has no case and "scared" of the senate so she is avoiding the embarrassment.

This is a talking point based on zero logic. She is literally fighting to make sure as much of her case is heard as possible with witnesses and testimony and not whitewashed by the senate Republicans. This is illogical thinking by those going down the road that she has a weak case and is somehow afraid to present. She is literally almost trying to force her case to be heard.
 
Shaggy said:
This is a talking point based on zero logic. She is literally fighting to make sure as much of her case is heard as possible with witnesses and testimony and not whitewashed by the senate Republicans. This is illogical thinking by those going down the road that she has a weak case and is somehow afraid to present. She is literally almost trying to force her case to be heard.
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Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. She has to buy time so that she can allow a fair case to be presented. Without it, it'll die like everyone says it will. I still think it likely will because the GOP is clinging to trump since that'll get them another term at least. They would have to undeniably convince most of his base that he is indeed a criminal and that there are better options. I really don't see that happening but anything can happen. All we can do is watch.
 
Its going to die quickly because there is no case to be made. They couldnt get a single Republican vote on impeachment in the house. Get it over with and find something else to waste taxpayer money on next year.
 
Sandbar said:
Its going to die quickly because there is no case to be made. They couldnt get a single Republican vote on impeachment in the house. Get it over with and find something else to waste taxpayer money on next year.
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The only case not made yet is any case that trump us innocent. Its crickets or straight deflection from the gop
 
Shaggy said:
The only case not made yet is any case that trump us innocent. Its crickets or straight deflection from the gop
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Innocent until proven guilty right? The fact that not one single Republican voted in favor tells me everything I already knew. Its been impeachment or nothing from Day 1. You aren't the only one to be suckered in by this BS so dont feel bad. Hate can sometimes be a strong motivator to unclear thinking
 
How can every Republican vote against impeachment and almost every Democrat vote for it ? Were they both not presented with the same evidence ? How can one side see one thing and the other side see something else ? Either he did something wrong or he didnt. Why such a huge contrast in opinions between the 2 sides ?
 
Sandbar said:
Innocent until proven guilty right? The fact that not one single Republican voted in favor tells me everything I already knew. Its been impeachment or nothing from Day 1. You aren't the only one to be suckered in by this BS so dont feel bad. Hate can sometimes be a strong motivator to unclear thinking
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The GOP is selling their souls to this charlatan. I'm not surprised one bit by the Republican vote. Partisan politics is the rule these days we see it senate votes for confirmations all the time now. Party before country is the way the GOP is playing this. Its why so many people are leaving the party and congressmen are retiring from congress.
 
SoutheastRidge said:
How can every Republican vote against impeachment and almost every Democrat vote for it ? Were they both not presented with the same evidence ? How can one side see one thing and the other side see something else ? Either he did something wrong or he didnt. Why such a huge contrast in opinions between the 2 sides ?
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Thats a good point. Seeing as how 1 party has been impeaching him since the day he was sworn in, I know which one I believe is FOS on this go around
 
Shaggy said:
Sometimes I question how the mental gymnastics work in politics. I use to feel this way about liberals during obama's years. The dodging they had to do to avoid realizing the clear and basic truth of some of his scandals. Did they really believe he knew nothing of the fast and furious before it broke on the news.....of course they believed that.

So to my point. Hearing this new talking point that Pelosi is holding the articles because she has no case and "scared" of the senate so she is avoiding the embarrassment.

This is a talking point based on zero logic. She is literally fighting to make sure as much of her case is heard as possible with witnesses and testimony and not whitewashed by the senate Republicans. This is illogical thinking by those going down the road that she has a weak case and is somehow afraid to present. She is literally almost trying to force her case to be heard.
Click to expand...

Case or not, Pelosi is holding the articles because she like us sees the latest polls. She is trying to play the middle ground between the people in her party who want to make a statement and a public who is becoming increasingly annoyed and retributive.

The illogical reason is to think that she is holding it for righteousness sake and the sake of America.
 
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