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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)
- Thread starter GaWx
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ghost1
Member
This curve shows a leveling off.. but it needs to show a downward trend for a couple of weeks before a relaxing of the measures that got us to the point where we leveled off
Yellow Snow
Member
That's why the phased Gated Criteria in the White House plan are to be implemented on a state-by-state basis. Obviously the curves for less populated states like Nebraska or Maine are a lot different than those of most other states.
One of the main elements of our federalist system is that the state governments bear the primary responsibility of providing for the public safety, health, and welfare of their citizens.
NCSNOW
Member
Saw a stat. For every posotive test in NC ,125 people have lost a job
Shaggy
Member
That letter was full of exaggerations and half truths and old data.
Shaggy
Member
Factoring in how many countless asymptomatic cases reduces that 1-29 ratio by a lot. We may never know the true number of asymptomatic cases and there was ZERO way to know we would get so lucky. We are dodging a HUGE bullet because of those asymptomatic cases. Imagine if everyone got sick from this and a decent percentage of them needed care. We got LUCKY!
Yellow Snow
Member
If you take the ratio of Covid deaths (42,458) versus jobs lost, the ratio is even steeper: 52 lost jobs per death.
And think of the # of people a job loss affects...you have kids a single job loss can affect a family of 4 on average.
Yellow Snow
Member
Exactly - the economic ripple effect impacts tens of millions all over the country, even in states with relatively small rates of infection.
GeorgiaGirl
Member
It's a Chinese study so I would still take it with a grain, but this morning I saw a study that suggests that this virus might have already mutated into 30 different strains. If that's anywhere near the ballpark of true...big IF, I don't think there's much choice but to try to let this run it's course to an extent.
Of course I'm sure others are continuing on with saying that only confirms that we need to stay locked up for a very long time and ugh...it gets political which I don't like.
Of course I'm sure others are continuing on with saying that only confirms that we need to stay locked up for a very long time and ugh...it gets political which I don't like.
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NCSNOW
Member
Agreed. Way, Way, way more Asymptomatic cases than we thought.The Asymptomatic cases factored in would most likely show the mortality rate at .01%. We did not know this and are just finding ,figuring this out. We did what we had to do and wisely by shutting down to save lives. I think everything has been handled and managed very well by most elected officials, wh corono team,American Citizens etc.
But its time to open the economy up. We cant shut down our economy for a virus with a sub1% mortality rate. I dont think anyone on here would dispute that. We did not know that till the past few days, because we have true data now to go off of, not speculation. Weve been shut down for 36 days now, its time to open up. Still need to follow hand washing, 6 foot rule, elderly,comprimised taking extreme precaution. Not worth going into a depression, not recession economically. I say this with heavy heart. Its tough cause every life is a precious gift. But a depression will cost more or as many lives as this virus.
Shaggy
Member
You were doing good until this claim that a depression would cost more or as many lives. You been keeping up with our deaths? We will likely/hopefully peak somewhere around 60k dead.
I agree we should look at reopening but i cant stress enough how calculated, fluid and flexible that plan needs to be or we see a 2nd even more damaging lockdown.
Calculated is key.
Heelyes
Member
I'm sure most of those jobs will come back but none of the lost lives will
Shaggy
Member
I am now convinced there are some here who couldnt care less about the lost lives.
If you're not even considering the socioeconomic fallout from this then you are not being realistic. We shouldn't be mocking people for considering that. Yes, the mortality rate for people over 60 is very scary but the mortality rate for people under 50 is that of the common flu. The socioeconomic fallout will be unprecedented...we have no clue how bad it will and how long it will last, but it's not going to be a quick turnaround. But, when covid19 hopefully gets contained in 18-24 months the wages/job won't come back with a snap of a finger, if at all. You have big businesses that have/will shut there doors, those jobs are not coming back and that isn't going to stop anytime soon. Imagine sitting there having just lost your job and trying to look for one in this environment....imagine sitting there not knowing how you are going to pay the mortgage/rent, buy food/clothes for your family. I am in no ways belittling covid19, it's very serious and shutting things down was the right call, but it will be a balance going forward.
Shaggy
Member
We are on the same page. We have to start thinking about the reopening process. I am fine with that.
There has been a small segment here that have made numerous post about opening the economy no matter what and that deaths are just going to have to be a part of it. That our elders just have to take their chances. Maybe their posts werent meant to be that way and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for a few weeks but after the 100th post like that I am convinced they dont care about lives lost.
Cad Wedge NC
Member
Not true Shaggy, they are trying to prevent more loss of life from hardships that will stem from a nation of unemployed people. I want my elderly parents to live and draw their SS checks without having to worry about a bankrupt government. Right now, the elderly people need us working. How, for the love of God, are we going to pay for what we have already spent? Are we going to make China pay for it?
Steven_1974
Member
AP: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
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A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
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A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Steven_1974
Member
Interesting info from NY ER doctor.
"Even patients without respiratory complaints had Covid pneumonia. The patient stabbed in the shoulder, whom we X-rayed because we worried he had a collapsed lung, actually had Covid pneumonia. In patients on whom we did CT scans because they were injured in falls, we coincidentally found Covid pneumonia. Elderly patients who had passed out for unknown reasons and a number of diabetic patients were found to have it.
And here is what really surprised us: These patients did not report any sensation of breathing problems, even though their chest X-rays showed diffuse pneumonia and their oxygen was below normal. How could this be?"
"click the link to read the details, but the short answer turns out to be that COVID-19 attacks the lungs in an unusual way: it causes the air sacs to collapse and oxygen levels to fall, but the lungs still expel carbon dioxide normally. Since it’s carbon dioxide buildup that causes you to feel short of breath, patients had never even noticed anything was wrong:"
"A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors….Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it….By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator."
"20 percent develop pneumonia and many end up on ventilators and eventually die. The problem is that they don’t feel anything for the first week, and by the time they do it’s too late. So how can we catch these cases earlier? With this: a pulse oximeter, and it measures the level of oxygenation in your blood. You probably get a quick oxygenation test every time you see a doctor. So the answer is: test your blood oxygenation every day. If it falls below normal levels, get to an ER and get tested for COVID-19. Your chances of survival are way higher if you can get to it early."
"Even patients without respiratory complaints had Covid pneumonia. The patient stabbed in the shoulder, whom we X-rayed because we worried he had a collapsed lung, actually had Covid pneumonia. In patients on whom we did CT scans because they were injured in falls, we coincidentally found Covid pneumonia. Elderly patients who had passed out for unknown reasons and a number of diabetic patients were found to have it.
And here is what really surprised us: These patients did not report any sensation of breathing problems, even though their chest X-rays showed diffuse pneumonia and their oxygen was below normal. How could this be?"
"click the link to read the details, but the short answer turns out to be that COVID-19 attacks the lungs in an unusual way: it causes the air sacs to collapse and oxygen levels to fall, but the lungs still expel carbon dioxide normally. Since it’s carbon dioxide buildup that causes you to feel short of breath, patients had never even noticed anything was wrong:"
"A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors….Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it….By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator."
"20 percent develop pneumonia and many end up on ventilators and eventually die. The problem is that they don’t feel anything for the first week, and by the time they do it’s too late. So how can we catch these cases earlier? With this: a pulse oximeter, and it measures the level of oxygenation in your blood. You probably get a quick oxygenation test every time you see a doctor. So the answer is: test your blood oxygenation every day. If it falls below normal levels, get to an ER and get tested for COVID-19. Your chances of survival are way higher if you can get to it early."
Shaggy
Member
Good place to start.
Is the average patient getting hydroxychloroquine sicker though? Are they tending to use it on more seriously ill patients? If so, you’d expect more people getting the drug to die.
Shaggy
Member
Some phones have a pulse-ox app you can download. You hold your finger up to it and it gives a reading......not sure of accuracy though.
I didn’t know this. I’ve been looking for a pulse oximeter and every brick and mortar place is out of them.
Shaggy
Member
Newer phones have them built into their health apps. You just hold your finger up to the camera.......one journalist from thentkdsy shows husband was a positive case and that's what their doctor had him doing to check his oxygen levels.
Shaggy
Member
I just found mine. Apparently. I'm stressed lol
Attachments
Great saturation though (99%)! Do you know if apps for older phones are decently accurate? The cost is $5 vs $30-50+ at brick and mortar for real thing when available.
Shaggy
Member
My Samsung i have came with a Samsung health app and it's free using that. iPhones have it as well as apple watches.
I’ve got an “ancient” IPhone (5S) (over 6 years old) and the health ap that comes on the phone doesn’t measure anything.
pcbjr
Member
I have a rotary and it comes with a dial tone ...
Steven_1974
Member
Yeah, I'm curious about how accurate they are myself. Hopefully fairly good and at least close enough to see if it warants concern.
pcbjr
Member
Likely will get deleted, but ... my office before social distancing became the vogue ...
Shaggy
Member
If i take it 10 times and all.10mtimes it's at 99% and then on turn 11 its 85% I would be worried. I think checking it regularly would give you a base average?
Will be interesting to look back on this to ultimately see how it evolves. Very easy to say now that Sweden was wrong....but...
www.yahoo.com
Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.
Sweden, which has yet to order any lockdown amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, has seen 14,777 COVID-19 cases and 1,580 deaths from the virus.
D
Deleted member 1449
Guest
Coronavirus Kills More Americans in One Month Than the Flu Kills in One Year | National Review
Having a proper understanding of the virus’s past and present danger matters.
www.nationalreview.com
Downeastnc
Member
Coronavirus Kills More Americans in One Month Than the Flu Kills in One Year | National Review
Having a proper understanding of the virus’s past and present danger matters.
Impossible pretty sure I have been told DOZENS of times this is not as bad or deadlier than the flu.....I mean remember all the other times they had to use mass graves in NYC to handle all the unclaimed dead from the flu, or the dozens of refrigerator trucks behind the morgue to hold all the flu dead…..oh yeah me either.....
Shaggy
Member
Coronavirus Kills More Americans in One Month Than the Flu Kills in One Year | National Review
Having a proper understanding of the virus’s past and present danger matters.
Think if all those asymptomatic carriers had become sick and the carnage we COULD have seen. We are getting so lucky.
GeorgiaGirl
Member
This is a stock market related show but still interesting, as I was watching Jim Cramer's Mad Money show, he presented some compelling info from a chartist about the possibility that the US might be able to reopen in 3 weeks because we might be about to start a downtrend.
Now that REALLY makes me hope that the decision to start opening a few days from now in Georgia doesn't have a spectacular backfire.
Now that REALLY makes me hope that the decision to start opening a few days from now in Georgia doesn't have a spectacular backfire.
pcbjr
Member
Damn ... Alachua County just recorded its 1st Covid-19 death ... I remeber just a few weeks back when the 1st case was reported ...
??
Boom ...
??
Boom ...
LetItSnow
Member
Nothing to see here; except more and more preliminary results from studies underway are showing the actual infection rate to be substantially higher than currently reported thus the probable death rates are substantially lower than currently reported.
Time will tell; the truth does find a way to surface..
ktla.com
Time will tell; the truth does find a way to surface..
Up to 442,000 people in L.A. County may have already had coronavirus, antibody study estimates
Hundreds of thousands of Los Angeles County residents may have been infected with the coronavirus at some point, even without showing any symptoms, according to preliminary test results from an ant…
ktla.com
Downeastnc
Member
Opening up eating establishments is like lighting the fuse on a stick of dynamite.....those places are major germ transfer locations and even with increased measured one or two asymptomatic infected servers can infect dozens of people per shift.....the good news for other states is we get to watch a few weeks and see if GA crash and burns....so thanks for taking one for the team
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