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Coronavirus (Stay on Topic)

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KyloG said:
Winston pushed out until May 7th.

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There may be a chance this is the final extension needed and we can begin to reopen in early to mid May, although I expect that will probably be pushed until the end of May.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
That's a pretty complicated question. There is one thing I'll side with the naysayers on though (at least ones elsewhere), and it's that if we were to reopen and need to shut again due to this virus, that'd be very devastating.

But then if you stay shut for a long time, you are most certainly going to open yourself to a hoist of other issues along with viruses.

I think the work needs to continue on the Abbott same day tests, antibody tests, and treatments and you're going to need to at least try to slowly reopen, with some changes and with a plan of targeted quarantines for the at risk first if you see "rolling spikes" afterward (for 2020 purposes because a vaccine isn't coming until next year).

I just don't think staying shut down until there's an approved vaccine is anywhere in the ballpark of feasible. I would rather give re-opening a shot even if it's "doomed to fail" like some (not necessarily on here) have said.
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Staying closed for 18 months sure isn’t feasible. At that point, we might as well just open up and let the chips fall where they may. Millions may die, but stopping society and the economy for a year in a half is neither sensible nor desirable.

In all likelihood I think we see the country start to open at the end of May. Like you said, we don’t want to do it too early, though, or we could end up relapsing, which would probably be a worst case scenario. Better to extend a little longer than needed than run a high risk of screwing it all up, IMO.
 
Matthew70 said:
www.cnbc.com

IMF says the world will 'very likely' experience worst recession since the 1930s

The global economy will this year likely suffer the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, the International Monetary Fund said.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
This is political and virus related. Unfortunately the scale is tipping to the other side which is what I was saying could happen if economies stay shut down. Within 2 weeks 50% of nation is broke. Also I’m sure most on here have seen they believe possibly a new strain of the virus might be emerging since recovered patients are getting it again. Also a dead body has passed it on to the medical examiner. Interesting times no doubt.
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Yes, it sucks. And yes, the economy is going to suffer. But I still stand by my opinion, that an economy can and will recover. But the deceased, cannot recover. My hope is that we can at least start to understand this virus better and find ways to save more lives.
 
superjames1992 said:
Staying closed for 18 months sure isn’t feasible. At that point, we might as well just open up and let the chips fall where they may. Millions may die, but stopping society and the economy for a year in a half is neither sensible nor desirable.

In all likelihood I think we see the country start to open at the end of May. Like you said, we don’t want to do it too early, though, or we could end up relapsing, which would probably be a worst case scenario. Better to extend a little longer than needed than run a high risk of screwing it all up, IMO.
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Come on man, that's a little irresponsible. Not many are suggesting 18 months. Saying millions will die like it's not a big deal, (even if you didn't mean it like that), is kinda morbid. How do you think millions of American's dying is going to affect our economy? I promise you the economic impact from that would far exceed the precautions we are taking now.
 
Honestly at some point id rather be dead than have to deal with the consequences or having the economy shut down.
 
KyloG said:
Right now places of business have no chance of surviving. I have a couple of friends that own there own business, they won’t survive if this gets extended until June. They may not catch Corona, but they will be broke, can’t pay bills, no health insurance for there families. They will be looking for a job during a period of record unemployment.

I want to hear people’s thoughts that have lost there jobs, savings dwindling, losing/lost health insurance on whether we should continue the lockdown. It’s easy for those that aren’t affected financially to say keep it locked down.

For the record, I’m not standing on my soapbox shouting reopen NC. I don’t know what the answer is either.
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It’s scary to think we are in this position. Not just America but the whole world. How long can a closed economy go before there is no point of return? That’s the question. All those predictions of millions dying now down to less than 100k in US. Yes it’s sad but if America does economically collapse then it’s not going to be pretty. Several said this could not happen going into a depression but yet here we are looking at one. We have to open up sometime in early May. I think that is the time period. At that time 50% of nation will be flat broke. Which is going to be scary itself but if we go past that number of broke in America then that is not times I want to see. We are also going to be dealing with other countries that collapse. Such as Africa. Unreal times for us all. There is no easy answer. As it has been said. The cure could be worse than the virus itself.
 
KyloG said:
Right now places of business have no chance of surviving. I have a couple of friends that own there own business, they won’t survive if this gets extended until June. They may not catch Corona, but they will be broke, can’t pay bills, no health insurance for there families. They will be looking for a job during a period of record unemployment.

I want to hear people’s thoughts that have lost there jobs, savings dwindling, losing/lost health insurance on whether we should continue the lockdown. It’s easy for those that aren’t affected financially to say keep it locked down.

For the record, I’m not standing on my soapbox shouting reopen NC. I don’t know what the answer is either.
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Outside of having a vaccine, cure, or a widely-agreed upon, highly-effective treatment option within a matter of weeks, we are going to have two choices, one of two things will need to happen: Either the government will have to mass-produce the capacity (medicine, ppe, makeshift hospitals, ability to transport healthcare workers to where they are most needed -- essentially create emergency infrastructure) to care for sick to very sick people and reopen everything, OR keep things mostly shut down until such time as a treatment option becomes available and financially backstop everything and everybody.

This isn't an easy decision. Both are damaging to the economy, but the second option moreso. Lives will be lost under both scenarios, but less so under the second scenario. The first option limits economic damage but increases personal health risk and will cost more lives in the near term. The second option cost fewer lives in the short term, but I'm afraid more people will slip into poverty and more lives will be lost over time.
 
Thing is what we are all looking at is that choice we all knew would come. Open up and yes many will die or stay closed and watch homelessness and poverty and crime and suffering and diseases and many more deaths. Yes diseases will increase and spread with homelessness and poverty and lack of health care. Either way sucks. I choose to open up because I don’t won’t to see families suffer with kids going hungry and seeing crime on the streets. Wondering where your next meal is coming from to me is much worse. With the virus death happens for some yes and it’s sad but how many will lose loved ones to this virus then also have to possibly be faced with homelessness and poverty? Hopefully this is all over soon. Very soon.
 
Matthew70 said:
www.cnbc.com

IMF says the world will 'very likely' experience worst recession since the 1930s

The global economy will this year likely suffer the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, the International Monetary Fund said.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
Also I’m sure most on here have seen they believe possibly a new strain of the virus might be emerging since recovered patients are getting it again. Also a dead body has passed it on to the medical examiner. Interesting times no doubt.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard anything about a new strain emerging. The claims of recovered patients getting it again are probably people that never fully recovered. I've definitely not heard a thing about it getting passed on to a medical examiner from a dead body. If they weren't taking proper precautions then it would be like getting it from any other surface though.
 
GaWx said:
This says having patients to lie on their bellies saves lives. Any opinions about this? @Jon @Tornadocane @tramadoc or any other medical folks or non medical? What about if the patient is morbidly obese?

www.cnn.com

Why positioning Covid-19 patients on their stomachs can save lives

Critical care specialists say being on the belly seems help people seriously ill with Covid-19 because it allows oxygen to more easily get to the lungs. "It's such a simple thing to do, and we've seen remarkable improvement," one doctor said.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Seems that visceral fat in obese laying on their back would put pressure on their lungs, so prone positioning makes sense. It’s similar to why obese people deal with sleep apnea. Their chest is just so much heavier than others. It may have to do with oxygen being able to reach the lower lobes specially.
 
Rain Cold said:
Outside of having a vaccine, cure, or a widely-agreed upon, highly-effective treatment option within a matter of weeks, we are going to have two choices, one of two things will need to happen: Either the government will have to mass-produce the capacity (medicine, ppe, makeshift hospitals, ability to transport healthcare workers to where they are most needed -- essentially create emergency infrastructure) to care for sick to very sick people and reopen everything, OR keep things mostly shut down until such time as a treatment option becomes available and financially backstop everything and everybody.

This isn't an easy decision. Both are damaging to the economy, but the second option moreso. Lives will be lost under both scenarios, but less so under the second scenario. The first option limits economic damage but increases personal health risk and will cost more lives in the near term. The second option cost fewer lives in the short term, but I'm afraid more people will slip into poverty and more lives will be lost over time.
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The 2nd option, if managed correctly, could well work ... if employers (like me) will dig into their pockets, buy hardware and software, keep their folks at home but working; yeah, it has cost me a good 35% of my "take home" to buy new computers and provide some upgraded internet but in the long run, we'll make the outlay back up ... and I have healthy, well people to work for me ... both gratifying and altruistic, and good for the bottom line from a cold/capital point of view as well ... win/win ... IMHO ...
 
ryan1234 said:
Yes, it sucks. And yes, the economy is going to suffer. But I still stand by my opinion, that an economy can and will recover. But the deceased, cannot recover. My hope is that we can at least start to understand this virus better and find ways to save more lives.
Click to expand...

Viewing the economic situation through the prism of our own economy is much too narrow. The economies in most (if not all) developed nations are going to be in recession for good while; probably for the rest of the calendar year and beyond.

If our global trading partners can't buy our commodities and our manufactured products, then that has a ripple effect throughout the rest of the US economy that will reverberate through nearly every sector for the foreseeable future - whether we reopen tomorrow, next week, or next month.
 
ryan1234 said:
Come on man, that's a little irresponsible. Not many are suggesting 18 months. Saying millions will die like it's not a big deal, (even if you didn't mean it like that), is kinda morbid. How do you think millions of American's dying is going to affect our economy? I promise you the economic impact from that would far exceed the precautions we are taking now.
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There are some people out there (not many) that are clamoring for a shutdown until a vaccine comes out, which will probably be something like 18 months. But it's an impossible solution is all I was saying. Society is going to be at a breaking point if we have to continue to keep things shutdown into the summer, IMO.
 
superjames1992 said:
There are some people out there (not many) that are clamoring for a shutdown until a vaccine comes out, which will probably be something like 18 months. But it's an impossible solution is all I was saying. Society is going to be at a breaking point if we have to continue to keep things shutdown into the summer, IMO.
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There will still be a lot of people that elect not to get the vaccine when it is released. I know just as many people that don't get a flu shot that actually get a flu shot. You can literally get a flu shot for $20 at any pharmacy/grocery store.
 
Anyone have age breakdown for covid19 by age for US? You can find Italy fairly easily. If you are under 50 the death rate is that of the seasonal flu and probably less under the age of 40. If you are age 60+ then yes, the death rate is really bad. When things re-open I would imagine the population over 60+ will limit their exposure, wear masks, etc...but for people under 40 you could argue are better off getting out there and developing immunity in some respects. That will only help down the road.

Screen Shot 2020-04-14 at 4.05.28 PM.png
 
KyloG said:
Anyone have age breakdown for covid19 by age for US? You can find Italy fairly easily. If you are under 50 the death rate is that of the seasonal flu and probably less under the age of 40. If you are age 60+ then yes, the death rate is really bad. When things re-open I would imagine the population over 60+ will limit their exposure, wear masks, etc...but for people under 40 you could argue are better off getting out there and developing immunity in some respects. That will only help down the road.

View attachment 39530
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Do folks over 60 get a consulting bonus for guiding folks under 40? If so, where is the sign up? Asking for a friend ... ?
 
KyloG said:
There will still be a lot of people that elect not to get the vaccine when it is released. I know just as many people that don't get a flu shot that actually get a flu shot. You can literally get a flu shot for $20 at any pharmacy/grocery store.
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Which will be interesting. Can the govt force this vaccination on everyone?
 
Matthew70 said:
nypost.com

Foot sores could be an early sign of coronavirus, experts say

Foot sores similar to chickenpox could be a new peculiar symptom of the coronavirus, according to a team of Spanish physicians. The Spanish General Council of Official Podiatrist Colleges warned ex…
nypost.com nypost.com
Another symptom. Lol sheesh every week there is a new symptom or something different about this virus.
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I have it by very credible sources that reading this thread is a certain symptomatic indicator ... ? ?
 
Matthew70 said:
I understand from politics but they did say assuming. When going to claim deaths from this virus there should be no assuming.
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Well, the same can be said for those who have had it, but never got tested. Not everyone can get tested, so we have to it's hard to get an accurate number. I agree, "assuming" may not be the best choice of words, I can think of better words.
 
Matthew70 said:
nypost.com

Foot sores could be an early sign of coronavirus, experts say

Foot sores similar to chickenpox could be a new peculiar symptom of the coronavirus, according to a team of Spanish physicians. The Spanish General Council of Official Podiatrist Colleges warned ex…
nypost.com nypost.com
Another symptom. Lol sheesh every week there is a new symptom or something different about this virus.
Click to expand...
Is it mutating and changing symptoms or as more data is collected from those that have had it are more of the similar symptoms being recognized?
 
Matthew70 said:
nypost.com

Foot sores could be an early sign of coronavirus, experts say

Foot sores similar to chickenpox could be a new peculiar symptom of the coronavirus, according to a team of Spanish physicians. The Spanish General Council of Official Podiatrist Colleges warned ex…
nypost.com nypost.com
Another symptom. Lol sheesh every week there is a new symptom or something different about this virus.
Click to expand...
Ghost said:
Is it mutating and changing symptoms or as more data is collected from those that have had it are more of the similar symptoms being recognized?
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Yeah, this getting kind of ridiculous. I mean, you can sit there and say pretty much any symptom can be a precursor to something else.

That's a good point, but I am not quite sure what foot aches have to do with a respiratory infection. Not a Dr. or anything, but it's kinda bizarre. But hey, if it is mutating and changing symptoms, maybe that's a sign that this less of respiratory and becoming something less serious?
 
ryan1234 said:
Well, the same can be said for those who have had it, but never got tested. Not everyone can get tested, so we have to it's hard to get an accurate number. I agree, "assuming" may not be the best choice of words, I can think of better words.
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Ok but then also assuming those that had it and never knew are got tested. Then that would make the death rate much lower also. In other words if going to assume deaths also assume numbers that had it also. In no way meaning to sound mean.
 
ryan1234 said:
Yeah, this getting kind of ridiculous. I mean, you can sit there and say pretty much any symptom can be a precursor to something else.

That's a good point, but I am not quite sure what foot aches have to do with a respiratory infection. Not a Dr. or anything, but it's kinda bizarre. But hey, if it is mutating and changing symptoms, maybe that's a sign that this less of respiratory and becoming something less serious?
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I just think it shows we have no clue about this virus. Sometimes nature has a way of saying I’m going to do some cleaning. Shows we are not in control like we think we are.
 
Matthew70 said:
Ok but then also assuming those that had it and never knew are got tested. Then that would make the death rate much lower also. In other words if going to assume deaths also assume numbers that had it also.
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That's correct. That's why like meteorology, this too is not an exact science. Especially when we are dealing with a new virus.
 
Rain Cold said:
Outside of having a vaccine, cure, or a widely-agreed upon, highly-effective treatment option within a matter of weeks, we are going to have two choices, one of two things will need to happen: Either the government will have to mass-produce the capacity (medicine, ppe, makeshift hospitals, ability to transport healthcare workers to where they are most needed -- essentially create emergency infrastructure) to care for sick to very sick people and reopen everything, OR keep things mostly shut down until such time as a treatment option becomes available and financially backstop everything and everybody.

This isn't an easy decision. Both are damaging to the economy, but the second option moreso. Lives will be lost under both scenarios, but less so under the second scenario. The first option limits economic damage but increases personal health risk and will cost more lives in the near term. The second option cost fewer lives in the short term, but I'm afraid more people will slip into poverty and more lives will be lost over time.
Click to expand...
The problem with the second option is the timeline for the financial backstop. I think both political sides will agree that the government is incapable of a quick response. Stopping mortgages and rent country wide would help but feeding millions of mouths on a daily basis is more than our government can handle. Maybe I'm just too skeptical but I don't see it happening.
 
KyloG said:
Anyone have age breakdown for covid19 by age for US? You can find Italy fairly easily. If you are under 50 the death rate is that of the seasonal flu and probably less under the age of 40. If you are age 60+ then yes, the death rate is really bad. When things re-open I would imagine the population over 60+ will limit their exposure, wear masks, etc...but for people under 40 you could argue are better off getting out there and developing immunity in some respects. That will only help down the road.

View attachment 39530
Click to expand...

Here ya go:

1586903696296.png

www.statista.com

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the U.S. | Statista

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the U.S. - Get the report with graphs and tables on statista.com!
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
“I will be speaking to all 50 governors very shortly,” Trump said, “And I will then be authorizing each individual governor of each individual state to implement a reopening and a very powerful reopening plan of their state at a time and in a manner as most appropriate.”


www.cnbc.com

Trump says some state economies may open for business by May 1

Trump's announcement came a day after governors from six states said they would form their own group to coordinate plans to eventually reopen their economies.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
EmersonGA said:
The problem with the second option is the timeline for the financial backstop. I think both political sides will agree that the government is incapable of a quick response. Stopping mortgages and rent country wide would help but feeding millions of mouths on a daily basis is more than our government can handle. Maybe I'm just too skeptical but I don't see it happening.
Click to expand...
I am honestly trying to figure out what line the government and the Fed can't cross, in terms of amount of debt. Obviously, it's not billions or now even trillions. Is it hundreds of trillions? A quadrillion? I don't think there is any way to define an answer to this question. When it happens, we will know. But until then, I guess they will just print away.
 
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