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Misc 2021 Spring/Summer Whamby Thread

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Rain Cold said:
So between these two posts, we are to believe or infer the following things:

1) There is concrete scientific evidence that the Covid vaccine carries little to no risk of long-term side effects, don't worry about it
2) MNRA vaccines have been widely used across vast populations for years, don't worry about it
3) Cures for cancer, Alzheimer's, ALS, Autism, AIDS, etc. would be developed in months if we just had enough money
4) Drug companies who make billions annually are so strapped for cash that it takes years to develop medicine
5) Non-FDA approved medications are great, don't worry about it
6) Strict guidelines that are in place to govern medicine development are useless, needless roadblocks to be summariliy discarded when needed, don't worry about it
7) Nobody thought to use some of the extra money and resources to develop a treatment in case you get Covid
8) Vaccines are the only solution and they work great except those not getting vaccinated make them not work as good, harming vaccinated peeps
9) Peer-reviewed papers give the all clear to long-term issues with Covid vaccines in kids with autism, people with dementia, people with lupus, people with leukemia, people who are trying to get pregnant, kids 8-18 taking a combination of propranolol, amantadine, amiodarone, and digoxin, don't worry about it
10) Measles has been eradicated, don't worry about this one anymore either
11) Judging others' hesitations about getting the virus as ridiculous and unfounded does not show that nearly your entire position is an emotional one
12) Everybody has to get the entirely safe vaccine for everybody to be safe, don't worry about it.

So, I'm going to go ahead on and stick with False. Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining. I don't need a stack of peer-reviewed papers on rain to tell me that yellow stuff spraying at me ain't coming from the sky.
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Drug companies are the reason there’s no cure for cancer and or diabetes! You mean to tell me we can whip up a vaccine for an unknown virus in months, and have very bright, genius type of people, and cant cure this stuff??
 
Rain Cold said:
So between these two posts, we are to believe or infer the following things:

1) There is concrete scientific evidence that the Covid vaccine carries little to no risk of long-term side effects, don't worry about it
2) MNRA vaccines have been widely used across vast populations for years, don't worry about it
3) Cures for cancer, Alzheimer's, ALS, Autism, AIDS, etc. would be developed in months if we just had enough money
4) Drug companies who make billions annually are so strapped for cash that it takes years to develop medicine
5) Non-FDA approved medications are great, don't worry about it
6) Strict guidelines that are in place to govern medicine development are useless, needless roadblocks to be summariliy discarded when needed, don't worry about it
7) Nobody thought to use some of the extra money and resources to develop a treatment in case you get Covid
8) Vaccines are the only solution and they work great except those not getting vaccinated make them not work as good, harming vaccinated peeps
9) Peer-reviewed papers give the all clear to long-term issues with Covid vaccines in kids with autism, people with dementia, people with lupus, people with leukemia, people who are trying to get pregnant, kids 8-18 taking a combination of propranolol, amantadine, amiodarone, and digoxin, don't worry about it
10) Measles has been eradicated, don't worry about this one anymore either
11) Judging others' hesitations about getting the virus as ridiculous and unfounded does not show that nearly your entire position is an emotional one
12) Everybody has to get the entirely safe vaccine for everybody to be safe, don't worry about it.

So, I'm going to go ahead on and stick with False. Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining. I don't need a stack of peer-reviewed papers on rain to tell me that yellow stuff spraying at me ain't coming from the sky.
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I give up on trying to convince you, but I would highly recommend using this magical thing called google to answer all these marvelous questions.

Heres the link for you if you need it: google.com
 
Tarheel1 said:
Drug companies are the reason there’s no cure for cancer and or diabetes! You mean to tell me we can whip up a vaccine for an unknown virus in months, and have very bright, genius type of people, and cant cure this stuff??
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Things like cancer are way more complicated though. A million cause and mechanisms . Though I agree progress on it is stifled .
 
alfoman said:
I give up on trying to convince you, but I would highly recommend using this magical thing called google to answer all these marvelous questions.

Heres the link for you if you need it: google.com
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Google is a media arm for the government and is coming to get us
 
alfoman said:
There absolutely is scientific evidence to back it up, you just haven't made a significant effort to look into it. Every single new vaccine is not some crazy brand new formula that has never been seen before. This is not the first MRNA vaccine and they are well aware of the potential long term side effects of similar vaccines through years of clinical testing. In fact, historically, any rare extreme side effects occur within the first two months after injection (the J&J vaccine for example with the 1 per million cases of blood clots).

The reason vaccines take so long to get approval is just because of the strict guidelines and lack of resources. But when every country is working together and spending billions in months towards vaccine research, 10 years of work can be done in the matter of 9-10 months. It's really that simple.

You can make your own choice with your own body, but you cannot expect me to sit by and not judge you for the decisions you make. You are putting the lives of others at risk by not recieving a vaccine that 150 million+ people have taken with close to zero problems.

Its just like meteorology, its science. The media might be emotion-based, but you don't have to be. Read the research papers and the scientific data presented to you by immunologists and vaccine experts. Just like you'd listen to my local NWS rep before anyone on this website.
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So much misinformation in this post.

1. The Moderna and Pfizer shots are the first vaccines to have the mRNA technology that have been available to the general public.

2. Both Moderna and Pfizer were given approval to rush their clinical trials.

3. If the concerns about long-term side effects are overblown as you're implying, the makers of these mRNA wouldn't have complete immunity from liability.
 
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@SD will star in a redneck field of dreams . Titled “ Left turn of dreams “ . It will start with him hearing a voice at night calling “ boogity boogity let’s go racing boys “ . He goes crazy and builds a race track in his immaculate Bermuda . Then, every racer killed in a race comes back to race and get the chance to complete the race that killed them, star will be Dale Earnhardt Sr.
 
NorthDFWwx said:
So much misinformatio in this post.

1. The Moderna and Pfizer shots are the first vaccines to have the mRNA technology that have been available to the general public.

2. Both Moderna and Pfizer were given approval to rush their clinical trials.

3. If the concerns about long-term side effects are overblown as you're implying, the makers of these mRNA wouldn't have complete immunity from liability.
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You're right about the mRNA part that is my fault, and I apoligize on that. However, they have been doing RNA research for decades and the technology they use for the vaccine is not new at all. Also you can look up how the vaccine works, not sure why would have any doubts about it if you knew how it worked. It does not alter your DNA or anything like that, just teaches your body to fight the virus like all vaccines do. It does the same thing all the other ones do, just in a slightly different way.

Measles vaccine was created in 1968 in 5 years with less than 1% of the technology we have now. And you probably have that shot and thought nothing of it.

They had three phases of clinical trials that were obviously rushed but again effective in determining the safety of the vaccine. You don't need 10 or even 5 years to figure out whether a vaccine is safe or not.

I have no clue about the immunity aspect you're talking about. I haven't done research into that at all so I won't speak on it.
 
alfoman said:
I give up on trying to convince you, but I would highly recommend using this magical thing called google to answer all these marvelous questions.

Heres the link for you if you need it: google.com
Click to expand...
I was kind of kidding about Google above.

But the reason you can't convince me the vaccine is safe long-term is because this is completely a matter of common sense. Nobody knows. This is a novel virus. We're already see it interacting with the vaccine in surprising ways. You can't possibly expect me to believe that we should have full confidence on the long-term safety of this type of medicine when virtually all historical precedent in medicine development was essentially set aside. Time is absolutely essential in vetting out medicine, especially with novel diseases. This is basic 101 common sense. You have to study and trial and study and trial. Then, if you're lucky, you get FDA approval and can sell your medicine. This is a non-approved experimental drug.

You may feel like it's the only solution and worth the risk, but a risk it is my friend. I have taken my first dose. I didn't want to, but I have to get it. But to say definitively that this is as safe as other vaccines, no sir. Not in a million years.
 
Rain Cold said:
I was kind of kidding about Google above.

But the reason you can't convince me the vaccine is safe long-term is because this is completely a matter of common sense. Nobody knows. This is a novel virus. We're already see it interacting with the vaccine in surprising ways. You can't possibly expect me to believe that we should have full confidence on the long-term safety of this type of medicine when virtually all precedent in medicine development was essentially set aside. Time is absolutely essential in vetting out medicine, especially with novel diseases. This is basic 101 common sense. You have to study and trial and study and trial. Then, if you're lucky, you get FDA approval and can sell your medicine. This is a non-approved experimental drug.

You may feel like it's the only solution and worth the risk, but a risk it is my friend. I have taken my first dose. I didn't want to, but I have to get it. But to say definitively that this is as safe as other vaccines, no sir. Not in a million years.
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Time will tell my friend. All I know is that we both probably agree the pharma companies are evil and out to exploit us. Let's just leave it at that.
 
alfoman said:
A few things and this will probably be my last post abot corona.

I want to start by saying that I am not in favor of mandating a vaccine. It is your body and is your choice. But again, I can judge you for not getting it. And if a state decides to not allow people in certain places without vax verification, thats ok too. Why? Because you can decide not to get the vaccine but not getting it is allowed to have consequences. Same as schools and unis not allowing their students to live/be on campus without getting the meningitis vaccine. Thats been the case for a LONG time too.

You seem to be really interested in how the vaccine was made so quickly! A quick google search would honestly do you a lot of justice in finding out answers to questions like this. Its normal to have a lot of questions, but there are thousands of search results waiting with the answers. The link at the bottom of the post details how it was done so fast. A regular vaccine has millions in funding spread out over years because it isn't an emergency. This vaccine had every top doctor in the world with all of the collaborating countries' resources+money available. Again, MRNA vaccines are not that different from each other and we've had decades of data on those already. I'd check those out!

Yes you are correct, people who are vaccinated can transmit the virus the same fashion as people who are not. But think about it like this: There is a room full of 10 people and a person who has corona (vaxxed or un-vaxxed...it doesnt matter) walks in. If all ten are vaccinated, research shows that the vaccine has around an 88%-90% efficacy against the delta virus. Theoretically only 1-2 people should get it. If all ten are not vaxxed, theres a high likelyhood most if not all ten people will contract it. And guess what? Those people can walk out of the room and spread it to others in other rooms. Whats the better outcome?

Not only this but the more common long term side effects of corona itself are worse than almost all of the side effects associated with any vaccine ever created in existence.

I didn't start the car example because I do not think it relates to this at all. You might take other's lives into acocunt when you drive but if someone theoretically drives drunk, they are not being considerate to other people's lives. Thats all I was saying. But again just forget about that anaology. Let's talk about the actual issue^

I probably will never be able to convince you of anything and your mind seems relatively set. Just please do some research to answer your doubts and questions about the vaccine. There are so many resources online for that. Or straight up, call your primary care doctor and ask them. They didn't go to school for 8 years to tell you lies.

Heres the link I was talking about:
www.medicalnewstoday.com

COVID-19 vaccine: How was it developed so fast?

With vaccine approvals underway, MNT spoke with medical experts about how COVID-19 vaccines were designed so quickly without compromising safety.
www.medicalnewstoday.com www.medicalnewstoday.com
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For one you can't say your not in favor of mandating vaccines and then say if a state decides to not allow people in certain places without a vax card, that's ok. That literally is the definition of mandating it which you claim you oppose.

Let's talk vax cards, there are going to be a lot of poor and minority communities that are not going to get the vaccine for various reasons, all valid reasons (a quick google search about that would honestly do you a lot of justice). All of a sudden it's ok to actually disenfranchise those individuals so government can force a jab on us?

No way anyone can honestly say what the long term side effects of covid or the vaccine are, as far as viruses and vaccines go it's all in it's infancy stage.

You assume I haven't already talked to my primary care doctor. Don't ask, none of your business.

Not all in that room would contract the virus, I don't need science, I've been exposed close contact in a closed office 3 times in the last 16 months and haven't contracted. I also know at least a half dozen other's same thing, I'm not saying it's a hoax, I'm not saying most wouldn't but not all will or did, I've witnessed it. I may contract it tomorrow, I'm definitely not saying I'm immune to it but I do think the risk are very low for me and that's my choice (judge away).

By the way I'll answer another one of your assumptions (although you didn't specifically say it but I bet it is) I'm not an anti-vaxxer. My parents got the vaccine as soon as it was available (age 77 and 81), I encouraged it and glad they did, my youngest daughter has it, her choice and I support it, my oldest has had 1 shot but she was basically mandated. She actually contracted COVID 2 days prior to getting the 2nd shot and is doing fine, gets out of quarantine today. People have that right to make that choice. Do some research to understand the risk and the valid concerns yourself. Thanks

And good talk
 
alfoman said:
You're right about the mRNA part that is my fault, and I apoligize on that. However, they have been doing RNA research for decades and the technology they use for the vaccine is not new at all. Also you can look up how the vaccine works, not sure why would have any doubts about it if you knew how it worked. It does not alter your DNA or anything like that, just teaches your body to fight the virus like all vaccines do. It does the same thing all the other ones do, just in a slightly different way.

Measles vaccine was created in 1968 in 5 years with less than 1% of the technology we have now. And you probably have that shot and thought nothing of it.

They had three phases of clinical trials that were obviously rushed but again effective in determining the safety of the vaccine. You don't need 10 or even 5 years to figure out whether a vaccine is safe or not.

I have no clue about the immunity aspect you're talking about. I haven't done research into that at all so I won't speak on it.
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You seem to be making two false assumptions with your posts:

1. The scientific community is well-meaning and would never intentionally do anything that would harm us.

2. The risk of side effects and long-term effects you might get in COVID is higher than the risk of any side effects or long term effects from the vaccine.

Starting off with assumption #2, that should be a matter of personal opinion/choice. In theory, if you're vaccinated and the shots are working as intended, the fact that people around you choose to remain unvaccinated shouldn't concern you. Trying to impose your choice on others to take a risk on an experimental vaccine is a very dangerous slippery slope to head down, IMO.

As far as assumption #1, even if you believe the scientific community is well-meaning and would never intentionally do anything that would harm us, the fact of the matter is they're still human and are prone to human error. The adverse effects from the Polio vaccine is a perfect example of this. Yes, I know some will make the argument that technology has become much more advanced since then, but the point is you're still taking a leap of faith that they didn't make a mistake they won't be held accountable for with these mRNA vaccines.

As far as your comment about DNA or whether it works like other vaccines, neither you nor I know that for sure since their trials didn't last long enough to determine with certainty there are no negative long-term effects.

As far as immunity from liability, see the link below:

www.cnbc.com

You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects. The government likely won't compensate you for damages either

Companies like Pfizer and Moderna have total immunity from legal liability under the PREP Act if something unintentionally goes wrong with their Covid vaccines.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
Broken024 said:
English food > Italian. Fight me
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Pizza > Haddock

giphy.gif
 
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