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Misc General Banter Thread

Has any meteorologist on here filled out the access form to the Google WeatherNext 2 data? I have a BigQuery login and requested access but a meteorologist would have a better chance I would imagine.

I was asking the same thing the other day

Its the most accurate model and it's not even close from what I hear

We literally will know if it will snow or not with this data and don't even need to waste time on traditional models
 
Hopefully someone gets the access. I'm not even sure if they provide maps or not might have to figure out how to plot them else way.

Im just happy we finally have something that we don't have to worry about being back and forth every 6 hours. Its going to completely change numerical guidance forever
 
okay, i went ahead and asked it outright about winter weather in the southeast through the next 15 days. here is what it said. i will come back to this and see if it was right:

forecast 1.pngforecast 2.png
 
Grok says:

Based on the latest forecasts from NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, ECMWF, GFS ensembles, and expert analyses (including from MIT's Judah Cohen and AccuWeather), the eastern US is unlikely to see a sustained warm-up in mid-December 2025. Instead, the signal points to persistent below-average temperatures and heightened storm activity, driven by a major disruption to the polar vortex from an ongoing sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) event. This is one of the earliest and strongest SSW signals on record, which has a track record of propagating downward to deliver repeated Arctic air outbreaks across the central and eastern US during December.


Key Forecast Details for Mid-December (Roughly Dec 10–20)​


  • Temperature Outlook: Models consistently show a deep trough (low-pressure pattern) anchored over the eastern US, pulling frigid Canadian air southward. Highs in the 20s–30s°F are likely from the Midwest to the Northeast, with lows dipping into the teens or single digits in many spots—5–15°F below normal. The Southeast may hover near normal (30s–40s°F highs), but no widespread warmup is evident. NOAA's seasonal map favors above-normal temps only along the immediate Gulf Coast and South, not extending northward into the core eastern regions.
  • Precipitation and Storms: An active pattern with multiple clipper systems and coastal lows will bring rounds of snow, sleet, and ice, especially in the Appalachians, Mid-Atlantic, and interior Northeast. Accumulations of 3–6+ inches are possible in favored upslope areas (e.g., western PA to southern NY) during 1–2 events. The Great Lakes could see lake-effect snow totals exceeding 1–2 feet by mid-month.
  • Broader December Context: Early December (first 7–10 days) starts chilly but builds to the peak cold around the third week. A potential holiday Arctic blast could follow, echoing patterns like December 2000 (one of the coldest on record). Overall, December leans 3–5°F below normal east of the Rockies, with above-normal snowfall in the Midwest, Ohio Valley, and Northeast.

Is This a "Fake" Signal in the Models?​


No—this appears to be a robust, high-confidence signal rather than noise or an outlier. Here's why, based on multi-model consensus and atmospheric drivers:


  • Model Agreement: The ECMWF, GFS, and Canadian ensembles (as of Dec 2 runs) align on the trough and cold anomalies, with ensemble spreads tightening (less uncertainty). Earlier runs showed some mild wobbles, but the SSW's influence has locked in the cold bias. Judah Cohen's AI subseasonal model specifically flags the "most expansive region of extreme cold" stretching from the Canadian Plains to the East Coast in the third week.
  • Key Drivers:
    • SSW/Polar Vortex Disruption: A vortex split or weakening (already underway in the stratosphere) often delays recovery for weeks, funneling cold air equatorward. Historical SSW events (e.g., 2010, 2018) led to 70–80% of Decembers being colder-than-average in the eastern US.
    • Teleconnections: Negative Arctic Oscillation (AO) and North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) phases—both favored through mid-December—reinforce high-latitude blocking, trapping cold over North America. La Niña (weak but persistent) adds a trough-favoring jet stream dip over the East.
    • MJO Influence: The Madden-Julian Oscillation is stalling in phases (6–8) that suppress ridging (warmth) over the eastern US while boosting cold outbreaks.
  • Caveats and Reliability: Subseasonal forecasts (2–4 weeks) have ~60–70% skill for patterns like this, per NOAA. A brief 2–3 day thaw can't be ruled out if a single ridge sneaks in, but the overall trend resists warming until late December or January (when La Niña weakens). If models flip (e.g., due to MJO speedup), we'd see it by Dec 5–7 runs—monitor those.



RegionMid-Dec Temp AnomalySnow PotentialConfidence
Northeast (NY/PA/NE)-5 to -10°FHigh (multiple events)High
Mid-Atlantic (DC/VA)-3 to -7°FMedium (mix/snow north)Medium-High
Southeast (Carolinas/GA)Near normalLow (rain dominant)Medium
Midwest/Ohio Valley-7 to -12°FHigh (clippers/lake-effect)High


For real-time updates, check NOAA's Weather Prediction Center or apps like Weather Underground. If you're in the East, prep for winter—shovels over swimsuits this month.
 
Happy Hump Day! Can’t wait for tomorrow! 1764725363056.pngIMG_3715.png
 
Grok says:

Based on the latest forecasts from NOAA's Climate Prediction Center, ECMWF, GFS ensembles, and expert analyses (including from MIT's Judah Cohen and AccuWeather), the eastern US is unlikely to see a sustained warm-up in mid-December 2025. Instead, the signal points to persistent below-average temperatures and heightened storm activity, driven by a major disruption to the polar vortex from an ongoing sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) event. This is one of the earliest and strongest SSW signals on record, which has a track record of propagating downward to deliver repeated Arctic air outbreaks across the central and eastern US during December.


Key Forecast Details for Mid-December (Roughly Dec 10–20)​


  • Temperature Outlook: Models consistently show a deep trough (low-pressure pattern) anchored over the eastern US, pulling frigid Canadian air southward. Highs in the 20s–30s°F are likely from the Midwest to the Northeast, with lows dipping into the teens or single digits in many spots—5–15°F below normal. The Southeast may hover near normal (30s–40s°F highs), but no widespread warmup is evident. NOAA's seasonal map favors above-normal temps only along the immediate Gulf Coast and South, not extending northward into the core eastern regions.
  • Precipitation and Storms: An active pattern with multiple clipper systems and coastal lows will bring rounds of snow, sleet, and ice, especially in the Appalachians, Mid-Atlantic, and interior Northeast. Accumulations of 3–6+ inches are possible in favored upslope areas (e.g., western PA to southern NY) during 1–2 events. The Great Lakes could see lake-effect snow totals exceeding 1–2 feet by mid-month.
  • Broader December Context: Early December (first 7–10 days) starts chilly but builds to the peak cold around the third week. A potential holiday Arctic blast could follow, echoing patterns like December 2000 (one of the coldest on record). Overall, December leans 3–5°F below normal east of the Rockies, with above-normal snowfall in the Midwest, Ohio Valley, and Northeast.

Is This a "Fake" Signal in the Models?​


No—this appears to be a robust, high-confidence signal rather than noise or an outlier. Here's why, based on multi-model consensus and atmospheric drivers:


  • Model Agreement: The ECMWF, GFS, and Canadian ensembles (as of Dec 2 runs) align on the trough and cold anomalies, with ensemble spreads tightening (less uncertainty). Earlier runs showed some mild wobbles, but the SSW's influence has locked in the cold bias. Judah Cohen's AI subseasonal model specifically flags the "most expansive region of extreme cold" stretching from the Canadian Plains to the East Coast in the third week.
  • Key Drivers:
    • SSW/Polar Vortex Disruption: A vortex split or weakening (already underway in the stratosphere) often delays recovery for weeks, funneling cold air equatorward. Historical SSW events (e.g., 2010, 2018) led to 70–80% of Decembers being colder-than-average in the eastern US.
    • Teleconnections: Negative Arctic Oscillation (AO) and North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) phases—both favored through mid-December—reinforce high-latitude blocking, trapping cold over North America. La Niña (weak but persistent) adds a trough-favoring jet stream dip over the East.
    • MJO Influence: The Madden-Julian Oscillation is stalling in phases (6–8) that suppress ridging (warmth) over the eastern US while boosting cold outbreaks.
  • Caveats and Reliability: Subseasonal forecasts (2–4 weeks) have ~60–70% skill for patterns like this, per NOAA. A brief 2–3 day thaw can't be ruled out if a single ridge sneaks in, but the overall trend resists warming until late December or January (when La Niña weakens). If models flip (e.g., due to MJO speedup), we'd see it by Dec 5–7 runs—monitor those.



RegionMid-Dec Temp AnomalySnow PotentialConfidence
Northeast (NY/PA/NE)-5 to -10°FHigh (multiple events)High
Mid-Atlantic (DC/VA)-3 to -7°FMedium (mix/snow north)Medium-High
Southeast (Carolinas/GA)Near normalLow (rain dominant)Medium
Midwest/Ohio Valley-7 to -12°FHigh (clippers/lake-effect)High


For real-time updates, check NOAA's Weather Prediction Center or apps like Weather Underground. If you're in the East, prep for winter—shovels over swimsuits this month.
Low rain dominant. Epic
 
Is this good
1c0cf04a1d2dd57ebeba1fb7341f49a0.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Is this good
1c0cf04a1d2dd57ebeba1fb7341f49a0.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
there's going to be wild run to run changes. we currently have an ai war in the banter thread.

google's weather next seems to think it will warm up after the 12th.
grok, using cohen's forecasts and mainstream models think it will cool down based on the mjo etc


i will say though, with the recent gfs output for that NC storm, the weather next forecast did say a larger snow storm around that time
 
Well we got somebody calling for 70s here and someone saying that all heck breaks loose right before Christmas 🤣 so that should narrow it down

I should mention it's not unheard of us here to go from 70s to a snowstorm lol
 
Might as well get used to it this year. You can already tell the pattern is going to favor NC and VA.
that is climo for this time of the year.

the favored zone is always the NC mountains and VA/NC border, and things generally tend to work out that way until we get further along. if interior nc gets snow even, this early, its bonus for them. I personally think it will be a lot of ptype issues for interior nc, but meh.

really need to change my name to pessimist i think
 
@Mitch West did it also snow at your house last year for like 8 hours, plenty cold enough, but amounted to a dusting at best?

are we both cursed, or was that just my house
 
@Mitch West did it also snow at your house last year for like 8 hours, plenty cold enough, but amounted to a dusting at best?

are we both cursed, or was that just my house
Yeh brother. I am right up the road in the Oak grove area close to the Barnyard. Crazy that was our best set up in years & we only got what we got. Flakes the size of a grain of sand for hours in the low 20s. It literally only amounted to 0.9 at my location.
 
Yeh brother. I am right up the road in the Oak grove area close to the Barnyard. Crazy that was our best set up in years & we only got what we got. Flakes the size of a grain of sand for hours in the low 20s. It literally only amounted to 0.9 at my location.
it was night time too; i don't understand. i'm not used to the small flakes, but i've seen them accumulate fast up north
 
I feel like starting a thread at more than five days out is like rushing down to the lowest row of the stadium to rush the field with three minutes to go and you're only up a field goal.
exactly. i understand when the pattern discussion is dominated by one specific threat, it probably needs to be split off, though
 
I feel like starting a thread at more than five days out is like rushing down to the lowest row of the stadium to rush the field with three minutes to go and you're only up a field goal.
I am on the more threads train but people have to understand we generally start threads when it's warranted and not bc the models had a 1 run blip
 
exactly. i understand when the pattern discussion is dominated by one specific threat, it probably needs to be split off, though
It's nice to have multiple threats and rumors of threats to create the need to separate the discussions. Beats staring at hour 384 ensembles trying to discern a hoped-for pattern change.
 
Can’t wait for another 34 degree rain


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With all due respect sir, really wish that you’d take all of your non helpful one liners here in the “Banter” thread. I’m by no means a moderator, however, I believe most would appreciate it. Thanks man 🙂
 
So, I looked at the 0z CFS to see if there's any hope for optimism but there's not. More of the same ole same ole all the way through the end of December. What an absolute waste of Phase 8. It just doesn't work like it used to
This is no shock. It doesn’t matter what’s in our favor we are born to 🔥 or cold rain.
 
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