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Honestly the main reason I can’t support this is because this is not the first second third or fourth avenue sought by the Dems to remove 45 from office. It’s something new every week and the people are sick of it. It’s a damn circus at this point and I won’t be a part of it

There were some dems who outright wanted him gone and were looking for anything. The house also voted 3 times NOT to proceed with impeachment over those things.

Trump and only trump us to blame. He gave them everything they needed and he gave it to them on a silver platter.

Was he really concerned about corruption? Well downeastnc summed that up really well. The measly 391M held up to Ukraine is a drop in the bucket compared to the 3.4B we give to a very corrupt Isreal. The only thing that changed was Biden jumped in the race.
 
Several things...first the Trump admin had given aid money to Ukraine 50 times in the first 3 yrs of his administration, most of that was when the previous corrupt president of Ukraine was in office....guess how many times that aid was held up to verify there was no corruption.....if you guessed anything other than ZERO you are wrong.....that's right not one time did Trump admin hold back a single penny of aid to a known corrupt president of Ukraine. This makes the entire argument that this is about corruption utter BS......there is not other rational way to look at it, the corruption excuse was only used AFTER Biden declared for president.

Second the aid was only released AFTER the WH found out about the WB complaint.....like the very next day.....so that's a crazy coincidence huh.....

Trump asking a foreign government to investigate his political rival in return for access and aid is bribery, extortion, etc pick whatever word you feel the most comfortable with....there is no world where what Trump did should be excepted as ok or just doing business. The GOP has the chance here to get rid of a horrible president before its too late and he destroys the GOP once and for all.
He withheld aid from other countries as well not just Ukraine, but since Biden's name was not involved with those it doesn't get talked about.

Anyway the impeachment standard has now been lowered, it's taken over 200 years to impeach 3 presidents my bet is 3 will be impeached over the next 25 or less.

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Kinda of concerning that the GOP senators are basically say
He withheld aid from other countries as well not just Ukraine, but since Biden's name was not involved with those it doesn't get talked about.

Anyway the impeachment standard has now been lowered, it's taken over 200 years to impeach 3 presidents my bet is 3 will be impeached over the next 25 or less.

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well yeah because withholding aid to get them to go after Biden is what made it impeachable.....
 
He withheld aid from other countries as well not just Ukraine, but since Biden's name was not involved with those it doesn't get talked about.

Anyway the impeachment standard has now been lowered, it's taken over 200 years to impeach 3 presidents my bet is 3 will be impeached over the next 25 or less.

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Do we have a reliable list of money that withheld with dates, country and reasons?

I know he held up aid to Lebanon but was that after this story broke? What money was held before this scandal? If there was this needs to be more openly discussed but I havent seen anything concrete.
 
Kinda of concerning that the GOP senators are basically say


well yeah because withholding aid to get them to go after Biden is what made it impeachable.....
Point is he was changing up the process by which aid is distributed to other countries, by looking into corruption within those countries, I'm sorry that your boy Joe just happened to get caught up in it because hes really the only one here with a quid pro quo.

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Do we have a reliable list of money that withheld with dates, country and reasons?

I know he held up aid to Lebanon but was that after this story broke? What money was held before this scandal? If there was this needs to be more openly discussed but I havent seen anything concrete.
Nope I don't have the exact data and I don't have time to look into it but I do know that information came out during testimony of the impeachment inquiries.

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Point is he was changing up the process by which aid is distributed to other countries, by looking into corruption within those countries, I'm sorry that your boy Joe just happened to get caught up in it because hes really the only one here with a quid pro quo.

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I dont support Joe or any other Dem....that said there is zero evidence he did anything illegal at all....Biden never did a QPQ, when he made the threat you are referring to he was acting as a agent of the USA and it was the USA making that threat not Biden personally......Trump withheld aid for the sole purpose of forcing a foreign government to go after his political rival. Trump did not and does not even now care one bit about Ukrainian corruption.
 
The funny thing is is that Trump is probably the most hated politician from the standpoint of the establishment (meaning current and former politicians, government, agencies, etc.) that nobody is passing up an opportunity to go after him -- leak conversations, betray his trust, berate everything he says or does, negatively spin all of his actions, etc.

There is no way that you could convince me that outside of maybe one or two cases, if any other president had this kind of collective apparatus working against him, almost every one of them would be candidates for impeachment. It's just that they weren't so despised by everyone.

Now you can rightly bring a lot of that back to Trump himself. He's criticized virtually everyone at some point or another. He's not one of them and doesn't want to play the game the way it's always been played. I'm not arguing whether or not that's good or bad. I'm also not arguing his moral standard (but I do doubt that in reality he's that much worse than other politicians in that regard....he just doesn't give a crap about what he says and does, while many others are so careful to hide their stuff).

I'd like to see the same level of opposition and scrutiny of all of our other past leaders and see how they fared. My suspicion is that it would have turned out similarly. And you can't really use the Clinton case as an example. Sure, the Republicans were after him, there was not the same magnitude of widespread internal (government) and external opposition to him.

Again, Trump has brought much of this upon himself. But there is also a component of deep corruption within the government that he threatens, and I think that is actually the bigger issue here, IMO.
 
Pelosi withholding the articles of impeachment from the Senate, as leverage, to negotiate how she and the Dems want the trial conducted..... hah quid pro quo much? Hypocrisy much? This stuff is laughable

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Judge Nap from Fox News says it best.....

"In Mr. Trump's case, we have undisputed evidence that he abused his power by inviting a foreign government to interfere in the 2020 presidential election and then compounded this by directing subordinates to refrain from giving congressionally commanded evidence of his behavior,"
If there is undisputed evidence that he did something wrong, why are so many saying he did nothing wrong ? I am so confused.
 
Pelosi withholding the articles of impeachment from the Senate, as leverage, to negotiate how she and the Dems want the trial conducted..... hah quid pro quo much? Hypocrisy much? This stuff is laughable

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It's not laughable, but sad that you don't understand the difference between these situations.
 
It's not laughable, but sad that you don't understand the difference between these situations.

As a anti trumper I think it stinks. She did her duty and within the confines of the constitution. That constitution now says it's time for the senate to play their part in this. Right or wrong McConnell gets to set the rules and as long as it's done following the constitution then we all have to deal with that.

We all know why McConnell isnt calling witnesses. There isnt anybody for him to call that would help clear trump.

For a while i thought maybe McConnell had spoken to key players that didnt testify in the house and knew they had exonerating testimony. Then he could sit back let the dems rush the impeachment then bring up these witnesses to clear trump. As soon as he said no witnesses I knew right then trump has done every single thing he is accused of doing.
 
The funny thing is is that Trump is probably the most hated politician from the standpoint of the establishment (meaning current and former politicians, government, agencies, etc.) that nobody is passing up an opportunity to go after him -- leak conversations, betray his trust, berate everything he says or does, negatively spin all of his actions, etc.

There is no way that you could convince me that outside of maybe one or two cases, if any other president had this kind of collective apparatus working against him, almost every one of them would be candidates for impeachment. It's just that they weren't so despised by everyone.

Now you can rightly bring a lot of that back to Trump himself. He's criticized virtually everyone at some point or another. He's not one of them and doesn't want to play the game the way it's always been played. I'm not arguing whether or not that's good or bad. I'm also not arguing his moral standard (but I do doubt that in reality he's that much worse than other politicians in that regard....he just doesn't give a crap about what he says and does, while many others are so careful to hide their stuff).

I'd like to see the same level of opposition and scrutiny of all of our other past leaders and see how they fared. My suspicion is that it would have turned out similarly. And you can't really use the Clinton case as an example. Sure, the Republicans were after him, there was not the same magnitude of widespread internal (government) and external opposition to him.

Again, Trump has brought much of this upon himself. But there is also a component of deep corruption within the government that he threatens, and I think that is actually the bigger issue here, IMO.

Boom there it is...
 
Calling something fake because you disagree with it isn't a good way to go about getting your information. If you say you don't think you're into conspiracies and such you're starting down the road by denying and not looking at every angle, even if it means putting those you trust in power into question. Question everything. If it's something you like, question it. If it isn't question it. Do real research, not a google search from your favorite source. It's like accepting a clown map of snow as truth. It alters your thinking.
Believe you me, I look at all angles. Exhausting...I will call any news fake if they don't report all the the news to the people. I trust nothing and no one. Never have. If I believe something, one better well know that there is good reason. This is not a game..Crucial for the whole country. No TV news is going to suffice for real research. I never use Google...
 
So what? Who cares. In the end we found out that russia did in fact interfere and hack the DNC. It resulted in the indictments of 12 Russians. It failed to prove conspiracy between trump and russia but the investigation found out who meddled in the election. The ends justified the means.

Isnt this the new Republican mantra. The ends justify the means so it's ok to lie on a FISA request.

This is the new bed you and all the Republicans supporting what trump has done are making.

You crying foul over the FISA stuff are crocodile tears to me. I dont care to hear it because its hypocritical BS.
So what? Who cares??? I think the people that were illegally spied on and there are many. I think they care and the whole moral of the story is, it's coming into to focus to the public that the whole Russia collusion narrative is a settup to begin with....Truths, proofs will win over propaganda. May be hard for some people to swallow and upsetting, but there will be no denying. In the end it will all be alright.
 
The rise in support of OANN is quite frankly scary. A straight misinformation news agency who has reported truly fake news stories is gaining viewership from trumps supporters.
Only scary to the left and propaganda machine. It's a pretty good network. I do believe there will be another option coming soon as well.
 
So when is Pelosi gonna send this to the Senate? I have been waiting patiently for "The Hammer to Fall" yet all I see is hold up after hold up after hold up because she is scared stiff of this going to the Senate. She knows it's gonna die in the Senate because the Democrat party is a sham and their argument is a sham. They will be exposed as the frauds they have been for decades. The hammer will indeed fall but it wont be on Trump's head I can assure you.......Bunch of cowards
 
Only scary to the left and propaganda machine. It's a pretty good network. I do believe there will be another option coming soon as well.
So you're saying a website that circulates false stories is good? I don't like bias in my news and that site is definitely smellier than ones like CNN.
 
So when is Pelosi gonna send this to the Senate? I have been waiting patiently for "The Hammer to Fall" yet all I see is hold up after hold up after hold up because she is scared stiff of this going to the Senate. She knows it's gonna die in the Senate because the Democrat party is a sham and their argument is a sham. They will be exposed as the frauds they have been for decades. The hammer will indeed fall but it wont be on Trump's head I can assure you.......Bunch of cowards
To Moscow Mitch who swears allegiance to trump?
 
If Trump is guilty of quid pro quo, bribery, extortion, having ugly hair, what have you, one would think Pelosi would have shut the door on this open and shut case weeks ago. But.........she obviously hasn't because she is scared. Can't say as I blame her because "The Hammer" is gonna fall!
 
To Moscow Mitch who swears allegiance to trump?
The house had it's turn to do whatever they wanted and that they did. Call whoever they wanted and did. They did nothing on the up and up either. Now they don't get do overs. This is what the dems wanted so now they get to play real ball...The Senate is the jury to hear what the house has. Chips will fall where they may. You love to call Mitch names. Nutty Nancy and Nadler can't stop this sham train now. Typical tactics of the left...Underhanded but the right must play by the book, conform, be sweet, play nice...yada yada yada. The day they started their mafia tactics to take him down is the day their tactics started turning against them.
 
Only scary to the left and propaganda machine. It's a pretty good network. I do believe there will be another option coming soon as well.

They are a propaganda machine with numerous examples of clearly false and misleading articles.

I take anyone who uses them as a source a lot less seriously because it's not hard to see what they are. To do so is simply cognitive dissonance.
 
The house had it's turn to do whatever they wanted and that they did. Call whoever they wanted and did. They did nothing on the up and up either. Now they don't get do overs. This is what the dems wanted so now they get to play real ball...The Senate is the jury to hear what the house has. Chips will fall where they may. You love to call Mitch names. Nutty Nancy and Nadler can't stop this sham train now. Typical tactics of the left...Underhanded but the right must play by the book, conform, be sweet, play nice...yada yada yada. The day they started their mafia tactics to take him down is the day their tactics started turning against them.

Why won't Mitch bring up witnesses that can clear trumps name?
 
If Trump is guilty of quid pro quo, bribery, extortion, having ugly hair, what have you, one would think Pelosi would have shut the door on this open and shut case weeks ago. But.........she obviously hasn't because she is scared. Can't say as I blame her because "The Hammer" is gonna fall!
If Nancy could stop this train she would. She has messed up royally and she knows it. She's trapped with no way out at this point. She had a chance to turn from the extreme left but lost control. The "hammer" is going to fall. The "hammer" is much bigger and deeper than the public knows yet. Mind blowing.
 
The house had it's turn to do whatever they wanted and that they did. Call whoever they wanted and did. They did nothing on the up and up either. Now they don't get do overs. This is what the dems wanted so now they get to play real ball...The Senate is the jury to hear what the house has. Chips will fall where they may. You love to call Mitch names. Nutty Nancy and Nadler can't stop this sham train now. Typical tactics of the left...Underhanded but the right must play by the book, conform, be sweet, play nice...yada yada yada. The day they started their mafia tactics to take him down is the day their tactics started turning against them.
The Senate is not a jury, they all love trump so what’s the point? Mitch stated he would do nothing.
 
They are a propaganda machine with numerous examples of clearly false and misleading articles.

I take anyone who uses them as a source a lot less seriously because it's not hard to see what they are. To do so is simply cognitive dissonance.
That is your opinion of them now and you're entitled. It's a pretty good network. World news, not just Trump talk. I take anyone who assumes they know what sources are the truth so quickly a lot less seriously as well. Declass of the FISA docs are coming next...Check all sources from here on out. We all should...Indictments are on the horizon. There will be no denying this is a sordid mess.
 
If Nancy could stop this train she would. She has messed up royally and she knows it. She's trapped with no way out at this point. She had a chance to turn from the extreme left but lost control. The "hammer" is going to fall. The "hammer" is much bigger and deeper than the public knows yet. Mind blowing.

Which hammer and when? All heard was "wait till this gets to the senate and the GOP calls all their witnesses" now its gonna be crickets from the GOP. Most of us know why. You cant defend the indefensible.
 
That is your opinion of them now and you're entitled. It's a pretty good network. World news, not just Trump talk. I take anyone who assumes they know what sources are the truth so quickly a lot less seriously as well. Declass of the FISA docs are coming next...Check all sources from here on out. We all should...Indictments are on the horizon. There will be no denying this is a sordid mess.

It's not my opinion its fact. They posted articles saying Moore had won, they posted articles saying Syria didnt gas their own people all of these are known lies. It's not my opinion its FACT.
 
The Senate is not a jury, they all love trump so what’s the point? Mitch stated he would do nothing.
At the end of the day we should take this entire mess as a message that nobody is immune to corruption and letting an outsider in makes them part of the package as well. We all know the senate will do nothing and that's probably why nancy wants to stall it. Not just because it's a political move, but because she knows like everyone else it'll be dead on arrival unless some convincing is done, which is unlikely.
That is your opinion of them now and you're entitled. It's a pretty good network. World news, not just Trump talk. I take anyone who assumes they know what sources are the truth so quickly a lot less seriously as well. Declass of the FISA docs are coming next...Check all sources from here on out. We all should...Indictments are on the horizon. There will be no denying this is a sordid mess.
No offense, but this is probably why you got called a conspiracy theorist elsewhere. You take radical right news as fact without question. This is no better than people on the extreme left, which aren't that many.

Also as a side note, the likely reason Trump told his base he was "Being targeted from day one by the "radical left"" is because it's partially political and manipulative to divide the nation, but also so he could get loyalty for breaking the law and spreading lies to his undying worshipers. He knew what he was doing from the start. He knew that making his base believe he was right on little things that he knew would fall though would make him invincible to then come his exposure. Of course on the flipside corruption already existed in DC and it's become a war of parties to take each other down. There is no playing nice. We know the left's few radical members want to drive the party and steal the spotlight and that's what they're doing, and the right has a few members pushing back in bizzare ways like comparing trump to jesus as seen yesterday.
 
At the end of the day we should take this entire mess as a message that nobody is immune to corruption and letting an outsider in makes them part of the package as well. We all know the senate will do nothing and that's probably why nancy wants to stall it. Not just because it's a political move, but because she knows like everyone else it'll be dead on arrival unless some convincing is done, which is unlikely.

No offense, but this is probably why you got called a conspiracy theorist elsewhere. You take radical right news as fact without question. This is no better than people on the extreme left, which aren't that many.

Also as a side note, the likely reason Trump told his base he was "Being targeted from day one by the "radical left"" is because it's partially political and manipulative to divide the nation, but also so he could get loyalty for breaking the law and spreading lies to his undying worshipers. He knew what he was doing from the start. He knew that making his base believe he was right on little things that he knew would fall though would make him invincible to then come his exposure. Of course on the flipside corruption already existed in DC and it's become a war of parties to take each other down. There is no playing nice. We know the left's few radical members want to drive the party and steal the spotlight and that's what they're doing, and the right has a few members pushing back in bizzare ways like comparing trump to jesus as seen yesterday.

I'd like this post a thousand times if possible.
 
Why won't Mitch bring up witnesses that can clear trumps name?

Seriously?

One reason is because they are winning at the polls right now and their method is paying off.

Secondly, it would not clear his name if every witness testified that Trump was an angel. The Democrats are just like the republicans. When someone brings up something they don’t like they explain it away. If all the witnesses agreed with Trump, the headlines would say he pressured them or paid them off.

Thirdly, it would give his opposition more testimony to find something else. Oh no, Trump bought the Turkish President a Quarter Pounder, it’s collusion and bribing.

I say this as someone who generally feels Trump did have some sort of Quid Pro Quo. That said the angle of “he won’t let them prove his innocence, so he must be guilty” is stupid and is akin to the statement “if you are not doing anything wrong, it’s ok if the Government spies in you. “
 
At the end of the day we should take this entire mess as a message that nobody is immune to corruption and letting an outsider in makes them part of the package as well. We all know the senate will do nothing and that's probably why nancy wants to stall it. Not just because it's a political move, but because she knows like everyone else it'll be dead on arrival unless some convincing is done, which is unlikely.

No offense, but this is probably why you got called a conspiracy theorist elsewhere. You take radical right news as fact without question. This is no better than people on the extreme left, which aren't that many.

Also as a side note, the likely reason Trump told his base he was "Being targeted from day one by the "radical left"" is because it's partially political and manipulative to divide the nation, but also so he could get loyalty for breaking the law and spreading lies to his undying worshipers. He knew what he was doing from the start. He knew that making his base believe he was right on little things that he knew would fall though would make him invincible to then come his exposure. Of course on the flipside corruption already existed in DC and it's become a war of parties to take each other down. There is no playing nice. We know the left's few radical members want to drive the party and steal the spotlight and that's what they're doing, and the right has a few members pushing back in bizzare ways like comparing trump to jesus as seen yesterday.
Okay..so your saying that declass is not coming? Nobody is looking into how the FISA was handled? Horrowitz report will not bring about more qestions?..Your theory on Trump sounds a little out there too. What is he trying to accomplish? What is his end game? Something he needs and wants that he could not get outside of putting himself, family and America through hell? Which side's conspiracy theories will prove to be facts?...And no offense taken. Epstein and Lolita Island was said to be conspiracy theory too...Also Prince Andrew. I knew about it years ago and thought of course it had to be because it's so sick. It's talked about everyday like it's no big deal now. Just sayin..I would not be so quick to judge and dig deep...Hell, if we were to tell our kids 50 years from now what is going on presently they would think IT"S a conspiracy theory it's so unbelievable. LOL
 
I am going to take great joy in watching this die in the Senate so our nation can witness what the moonbats on the left will drub up next. I'm sure they will dream up something huge only to lose again and again and again all the way to November when they get zombie stomped at the polls my Trump! The shear emotional meltdowns he stirs up in people is worth every second!
 
I am going to take great joy in watching this die in the Senate so our nation can witness what the moonbats on the left will drub up next. I'm sure they will dream up something huge only to lose again and again and again all the way to November when they get zombie stomped at the polls my Trump! The shear emotional meltdowns he stirs up in people is worth every second!

So watching people have a "meltdown" over this unethical behavior is more important than holding the president to his oath of office?
 
So watching people have a "meltdown" over this unethical behavior is more important than holding the president to his oath of office?

Absolutely because its the biggest joke I have see since re-joining the ranks of the civilian world. You can't even imagine the laughs I have had watching grown adults have their emotional fabric destroyed over a damn phone call they could really give 2 poops about.....LOL
 
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