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Ukraine

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Rain Cold said:
We evaluate way too many things through the lens of our media and political leaders...entities that have demonstrated their corruption and bias year after year after year. We have strong opinions one way or the other around directly helping Ukraine or not, but we don't seem to have the same passion about the myriad other situations where genocide is occurring or where non-televised countries operating in other countries are doing damage to people, economy, and infrastructure.
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Well said
 
The ship burning off Odessa could be commercial.....there is a Panamanian flagged cargo ship about 15-20 miles off Odessa....but thats literally it every other ship out there would be Russian at this point and they are not tracked on these sites....

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lexxnchloe said:
From the non-war corner and im happy to occupy that corner. What is the first casualty of war? Anyone?

The Truth. Those who blindly believe the media arent terribly wise. One other point i will make. When we see a column of Russian vehicles sitting in the road and wish they would be obliterated lets not forget 1 thing. People are in those vehicles. People who dont know you, Dont hate you, Dont want to kill you and just want to come back home alive. I feel awful for every person getting killed on every side but its not our fight. I am fine with sanctions. I am not fine with involving ourselves in a war where we really have no idea of the consequences of our actions.

Not to get off the topic but a note on perspective. 2 countries, Russia and China. The last 2 years which country might have accidently released a lab created virus that has killed millions worldwide and almost a million here? Which country has repeatedly lied about it and covered up information? How many other people died due to the lockdowns expecially in poor countries. Millions. Now, its clearly up for debate on how much responsibility China bears for this but one thing i know. Russia hasnt done a darn thing to me and anything they are doing now pales in comparison to the last 2 years. No sanctions for China?

Dont let the media shape your opinion. When you see anything presented as gospel just ask, "But is this really the Case?"
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Putin, that you?
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Take a breath.

Nuclear war is of little to no possibility right now.
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Thank you. As unhinged as Putin seems, he will try every conventional route of gaining an upper hand first. His first step seems to be a repeat of the brutality of Syria and just attacking any place that may hold soldiers or civilians. He is also finding other sources of troops like Belarus to make up for the heavy losses so far. My greatest concern for a limited nuclear strike is if the U.S./NATO provide some serious AA power that turns Ukraine into a plane graveyard, or if Ukraine reverses losses to the point of trying to reclaim Crimea or the Donbas.
 
This tells you a lot about how badly the Russians are doing, they do not have control of the skies at all, or the ability to stop relief flights....I wonder if those warships moving in earlier were a attempt to stop this flight....

 
Few trivial facts Ive seen:
Average Russian Solider makes about 150 US Dollars a month.
Just heard Ukraine say death toll over 2,000 civilians now. I'm sure its way higher than that and will be.
 
NCSNOW said:
Few trivial facts Ive seen:
Average Russian Solider makes about 150 US Dollars a month.
Just heard Ukraine say death toll over 2,000 civilians now. I'm sure its way higher than that and will be.
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Unfortunately, that last statement is correct in that it's gonna get a LOT higher I'm afraid.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Take a breath.

Nuclear war is of little to no possibility right now.
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This is true, however did we even think we would be talking about the small possibility a month or two ago? In December 2019 I was at the beach enjoying my anniversary with no clue at all in three to four months the Governments of the world would shut the global economy down due to a virus.

Things change rapidly and nothing the world leaders will do will ever surprise me again.
 
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I cannot believe the Ukraine's are still fighting. Everybody swore up and down Ukraine was gonna fall very soon. They just seem more motivated.
 
lexxnchloe said:
From the non-war corner and im happy to occupy that corner. What is the first casualty of war? Anyone?

The Truth. Those who blindly believe the media arent terribly wise. One other point i will make. When we see a column of Russian vehicles sitting in the road and wish they would be obliterated lets not forget 1 thing. People are in those vehicles. People who dont know you, Dont hate you, Dont want to kill you and just want to come back home alive. I feel awful for every person getting killed on every side but its not our fight. I am fine with sanctions. I am not fine with involving ourselves in a war where we really have no idea of the consequences of our actions.

Not to get off the topic but a note on perspective. 2 countries, Russia and China. The last 2 years which country might have accidently released a lab created virus that has killed millions worldwide and almost a million here? Which country has repeatedly lied about it and covered up information? How many other people died due to the lockdowns expecially in poor countries. Millions. Now, its clearly up for debate on how much responsibility China bears for this but one thing i know. Russia hasnt done a darn thing to me and anything they are doing now pales in comparison to the last 2 years. No sanctions for China?

Dont let the media shape your opinion. When you see anything presented as gospel just ask, "But is this really the Case?"
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You first paragraph is great, but you lost the ball a bit in the second. Russia may not have done anything to you, but they are doing something to our fellow humans, just as China.
 
Arcc said:
This is true, however did we even think we would be talking about the small possibility a month or two ago? In December 2019 I was at the beach enjoying my anniversary with no clue at all in three to four months the Governments of the world would shut the global economy down due to a virus.

Things change rapidly and nothing the world leaders will do will ever surprise me again.
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Nuclear war is the end all, be all of everything. Nearly every doctrine, in every nation, uses it as a last resort. It cannot be compared to anything else.

Nuclear weapons in general serve more as a deterrent than anything else. Things would have to escalate to an all out global war before nuclear weapons would be used and I just do not see that happening here. Even China is calling for a ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine.
 
Johnkittz said:
I cannot believe the Ukraine's are still fighting. Everybody swore up and down Ukraine was gonna fall very soon. They just seem more motivated.
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I dunno a bunch of us said Ukraine was gonna give Russia a hard time and that Russia was never going to be able to "win" by going in....hell I was convinced there was no way Russia would actually go in....and then I was convinced they would only go after Donbass.
 
Johnkittz said:
I cannot believe the Ukraine's are still fighting. Everybody swore up and down Ukraine was gonna fall very soon. They just seem more motivated.
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The nostalgia of Russia being that other superpower nation is still in a lot of people's heads. Outside of the nuclear arsenal, the Russian military has not been very formidable and this conflict is showing just how out of date and lacking they are. They have superior numbers and weapons compared to Ukraine and can't put a dent into anything outside of taking the rural areas of little resistance. This conflict has shown me that if Russia really tried to wage war with the US, we would blow them off the map.
 
BlueRidgeFolklore said:
Nuclear war is the end all, be all of everything. Nearly every doctrine, in every nation, uses it as a last resort. It cannot be compared to anything else.

Nuclear weapons in general serve more as a deterrent than anything else. Things would have to escalate to an all out global war before nuclear weapons would be used and I just do not see that happening here. Even China is calling for a ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine.
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This is all correct, but never I will never doubt what a bunch of egotistical, selfish and sometimes stupid world leaders can do.
 
One week into Russia's invasion of Ukraine, its troops have made significant advances into the country but have so far failed to take the capital Kyiv and other major cities.
Here are the latest developments on day seven of the invasion:
  • Russian paratroopers have landed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city
  • Russia's defence ministry claims to have captured southern city Kherson
  • People in Kyiv told to leave by Russia before planned air strikes
  • Russia's 40-mile-long convoy remains just to the north of Kyiv
Map showing areas of Ukraine that are under Russian control

Russia launched its attack in the early hours of last Thursday from three main directions: north, south and east.
Since then, troops have poured into Ukraine and targets across the country have been struck by air strikes and artillery attacks.

The fight for Kyiv​

Russian troops have been advancing on Kyiv from the north, although progress has slowed in the past 24 hours.
The 40-mile-long convoy pictured in satellite images has been hampered by broken down vehicles, according to analysts.
But the capital city has faced multiple attacks from the air.
On Tuesday, Russian troops fired on TV Tower in Kyiv, killing five people and taking some broadcasts off air.
Map showing key locations in Kyiv, with Russian troops just to the north of the capital

Hostomel airport has been the scene of fierce fighting and has changed hands multiple times in the past few days, according to the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).
Russian forces arrived near Obolon on the outskirts of Kyiv on Friday and clashes in north-western Kyiv were reported at the weekend.
But so far Russian tanks and armoured vehicles have not been seen in the capital.
 
iGRXY said:
The nostalgia of Russia being that other superpower nation is still in a lot of people's heads. Outside of the nuclear arsenal, the Russian military has not been very formidable and this conflict is showing just how out of date and lacking they are. They have superior numbers and weapons compared to Ukraine and can't put a dent into anything outside of taking the rural areas of little resistance. This conflict has shown me that if Russia really tried to wage war with the US, we would blow them off the map.
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Russia can "win" sorta but they are going to have to double or triple the number of troops they have in theater to do so....then they are going to have to accept hundreds of dead every month as insurgents will be everywhere armed to the teeth. This is just to hold the eastern third or so and Kyiv.... Imagine the Russians trying to push west from Kyiv ( assuming they finally take it ), its 350 miles to Lviv which would probably be the new seat of the government.....350 miles....so the only real strategy would be attack south from Belarus and thats still 200 miles to Lviv and very close to the Polish border....
 
Johnkittz said:
I cannot believe the Ukraine's are still fighting. Everybody swore up and down Ukraine was gonna fall very soon. They just seem more motivated.
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It’s been seven days. Ukraine is a big country and even if Russia wins, it will take time to conquer. For context, Poland took Germany/USSR a month to capture in their lightning war, attacking from three fronts. Granted, modern war happens quicker. Ukraine is in a very bad position right now. I can’t see them winning the conventional war, straight up. They may be able to win an insurgency, though.

Certainly, some Russians bought into their own propaganda and thought the Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and roll over for them, though.
 
iGRXY said:
The nostalgia of Russia being that other superpower nation is still in a lot of people's heads. Outside of the nuclear arsenal, the Russian military has not been very formidable and this conflict is showing just how out of date and lacking they are. They have superior numbers and weapons compared to Ukraine and can't put a dent into anything outside of taking the rural areas of little resistance. This conflict has shown me that if Russia really tried to wage war with the US, we would blow them off the map.
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That I definitely agree with. The US military is truly unmatched in the world today. I doubt China would fare much, if any, better than Russia, either.
 
Here’s one company that’s refusing to help, bath and body will not do a special Ukraine line of products to help civilians. Doesn’t matter tho they gonna get their $$ during the holidays anyway
 
BirdManDoomW said:
Here’s one company that’s refusing to help, bath and body will not do a special Ukraine line of products to help civilians. Doesn’t matter tho they gonna get their $$ during the holidays anyway
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Bath and body is still a thing? they won't do it because they would probably go bankrupt.
 
crecre9 said:
You first paragraph is great, but you lost the ball a bit in the second. Russia may not have done anything to you, but they are doing something to our fellow humans, just as China.
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How many interventions do you want to right the wrongs done to fellow humans? Many have no perspective on anything. A Muslim terrorist doesnt consider him or herself a terrorist, they consider themselves freedom fighters righting the wrongs done to them by us. And to be clear if we are attacked like we were on 9/11 i am all for hunting down and killing those responsible.

Here is a wrong done to people and it dwarfs what Russia has done so far

www.bbc.com

China Uighurs: One million held in political camps, UN told

A million ethnic Uighurs may be being held in "re-education centres", a UN rights panel has heard.
www.bbc.com

There is no doubt at least 1 million are in concentration camps, many tortured and starved. Some reports are thousands have been murdered but that isnt 100% certain. In any case when should we attack China?
 
Here is another. I can go on and on and on about wrongs done to our fellow humans

www.voanews.com

Amnesty Accuses Tigray Forces of Atrocities in Ethiopia’s Amhara

Amnesty International investigation finds Tigray forces have murdered, raped and pillaged attacks on civilians in Amhara towns, mainly in Kobo and China areas
www.voanews.com www.voanews.com

"Rights groups Amnesty International says Tigrayan fighters have committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity as they were withdrawing from Ethiopia’s Amhara region.

Amnesty International’s report released Wednesday says fighters affiliated with the Tigray People’s Liberation Front (TPLF) killed scores of Ethiopian civilians in northern Amhara region, looted property, and gang-raped women and girls as young as 14.

Amnesty says the Tigrayan forces committed the atrocities around Chenna and Kobo last August and September after taking control of the areas."

Should we go in and correct this wrong as well? Which wrongs should we correct and which wrongs should we ignore? And when we "correct" a wrong do we create more "wrongs"? And also if another country or group wants to correct what they consider to be our wrongs is that justified?

To correct all these wrongs do we double the size of the military as well as its budget?
 
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superjames1992 said:
It’s been seven days. Ukraine is a big country and even if Russia wins, it will take time to conquer. For context, Poland took Germany/USSR a month to capture in their lightning war, attacking from three fronts. Granted, modern war happens quicker. Ukraine is in a very bad position right now. I can’t see them winning the conventional war, straight up. They may be able to win an insurgency, though.

Certainly, some Russians bought into their own propaganda and thought the Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators and roll over for them, though.
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The part I bolded. It will get ugly for Russia. Ukraine as well but they have way more to lose with no intent to accept what Russia wants them to accept. At this moment I 100% believe them
 


Saw a tweet where they said a women in Russia claimed the unit from their area had 150 men in it and that all but 18 have been killed so far...though take it with a huge grain of salt....
 
You have to feel bad for these young men Russia has sent to war....also its nice to see the Ukrainian people not giving in to the pain and suffering they are feeling and taking it out on these Russian prisoners though I imagine it has happened to some of them....still it restores just a little faith in humanity to see them rising above all that and treating these Russian soldiers like human beings first.

 
Is anyone aware of this nice little piece of news. There is plenty of evidence Iran was a leading financier or terror before sanctions were imposed and Russia and Iran are allies. Russia wants the sanctions on Iran lifted and we seem to have no problem with the super evil horrific monster Russians in charge of talks between us and Iran. The world is a complicated place indeed.



So Biden is aligned with Death to America Iran and Ukrainian invader Russia.
 
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