cd2play
Member
YayIt's useless looking at maps in isolation at that range anyway. But nothing else is going on. I guess we could post this to balance it out:
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YayIt's useless looking at maps in isolation at that range anyway. But nothing else is going on. I guess we could post this to balance it out:
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At the end of the 12z GFS is obviously wrong, a massive Bermuda high builds. The 12z GEFS does not agree, follow the ensembles! View attachment 26331
Dude! I think we can pretty much all agree on this by now. It has a cold/cold pattern bias every year. Has for years.But don't ignore the horrible GEFS cold bias either. I recommend you take the GEFS and warm it up considerably if you're going to use it for a forecast.
Dude! I think we can pretty much all agree on this by now. It has a cold/cold pattern bias every year. Has for years.
I think the people who are going to get the concept get it by now. That's kind of like having to remind people not to believe a 10 day map every single time a 10 day map is posted. Or like saying the models flip flop every time the models flip flop. Some people aren't going to care about anything but whether or not there's blue cold or white snow being shown over their house.And dude, this needs to be emphasized as long as the maps are shown without the "cold pattern/bias" disclaimer. Not everyone is aware of this or wants to accept this and there are also new readers.
I think the people who are going to get the concept get it by now. That's kind of like having to remind people not to believe a 10 day map every single time a 10 day map is posted. Or like saying the models flip flop every time the models flip flop. Some people aren't going to care about anything but whether or not there's blue cold or white snow being shown over their house.
I use a blend of both ensembles, it's never a good idea to take one model at face value. I was just verifying if that massive Bermuda high was there on the GEFS. Since that is 300+ hours out, that Bermuda high does not have a chance at verifying at this time, considering that the GEFS does not have it. If other ensembles don't show that Bermuda high, the chance of that Bermuda high is slim. Of course, things can always change.But don't ignore the horrible GEFS cold bias either. I recommend you take the GEFS and warm it up considerably if you're going to use it for a forecast.
I always view anything 10 days or over with skepticism. What I try to use to give me a little more confidence is agreement between model/ensemble suites on the general pattern, as well as pattern recognition. IMO, like Larry has been saying, the GFS tends to push lower heights too far south in the east in the LR. That leads to colder temps than what will eventually occur. It's been that way for a long time. BUT, it doesn't mean it doesn't have the general pattern right.I always consider the "no snow for the SE" bias on all models. If it shows cold and snow, it's corrupted and should be discounted. Always.
I'm not ready to say the GEFS has got the wrong pattern. It may be overdoing the degree of cold, but the pattern could be correct IMO. EPS versus GEFS both have their strengths and weaknesses I think.
Part of the problem is that any model when over analyzed past day 10, especially day 15, is going to show some large inconsistencies...it seems the GEFS biased cold or pattern biased. EPS has large errors day 10+ too.
But, to start December both the GEFS and EPS are showing a -EPO with an eroding -NAO. Question is how far east/west does the actual ridge setup in the pacific. Is it out over the GOA like the 0z EPS or is it splitting the Yukon like the GEFS.
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Obviously, not all -EPOs are created equally, you can have the index crash to several sigma below climatology and end up really mild around here esp if the anticyclonic wave break is suppressed significantly equatorward of the arctic ocean.
You mean like this train wreck? Kind of what the EPS has been showing for early Dec.
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Still think we have a small shot at something first week of December, at least maybe us upper South folks (NC and Canada Lol sorry @NoSnowATL you started it)
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Great example here of how you can have a -EPO & a -NAO simultaneously but still end up warmer than average in spite of the fact that you're in February of a NINO winter.
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I assume you'd agree that the Feb 2019 Nina-like strong -PNA (-1.08), which is consistent with a strong SER, had a lot to do with this warm SE:
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/norm.pna.monthly.b5001.current.ascii.table
I knwo you know this but for those who don't, a solid -PNA, persistent cold in the SE, especially far SE, is hard to get even with a strong -EPO like Feb 2019 had. With El Nino, a +PNA is usually favored over a -PNA thus helping to make Nino's chilly on average in the SE.
Folks,
Even though the GEFS has been cold in the 11-15 for several days, always beware its strong cold bias mainly due to too cold a pattern! Per Maxar, the last 30 days have been averaging a whopping 6 too cold just in the 6-10 at ATL and that even incorporates the very cold early Nov when the model was not cold enough!! So, it would have been even warmer without that very cold period. Even the EPS has been 3 too cold at ATL the last 30 days.
Nationally the GEFS has only been 3 too cold, but that's because cold biases are less in the Midwest and near 0 with even a slight warm bias in some western areas. The EPS has been 1 too cold nationally. I had thought the EPS had averaged slightly too warm but that hasn't been the case.
As an example of how bad the GEFS cold bias has been on a national basis, I looked at the nationally weighted heating degree days (US HDD) of the 12Z GEFS from one week ago today and compared its week 2 to today's 12Z GEFS week 1. The results are horrible. I mean fail/flunky bad. Every day of 11/23-30 was predicted by the GEFS of a week ago to be solidly colder than normal. The current GEFS has all of those days near normal.
US HDD
Date.....12Z 11/15 GEFS.....12Z 11/22 GEFS
11/23.......….......21......…...............……..19
11/24...…….……22.......................……....19
11/25.........……..23.............…......……….18
11/26......…….....22.........….……...…...….16
11/27......…….….22................…...…...…..17
11/28......………..23......…....…...………….19
11/29......…….….23.............…...…...........20
11/30...…...……..24......….......…..............19
11/23-30 avg...22.5.................….......18.5
The 22.5 US HDD forecasted a week ago is 22.5, which is a whopping 4.5 higher (colder) than the normal of only 18. The current run has only 18.5, which is 4 lower (warmer) than the run from a week ago and is only 0.5 higher (colder) than the normal of 18. It really stinks, folks. To make matters worse, even today's GEFS prediction of near normal for 11/23-30 will come in quite a bit too cold as a warmer than normal US is expected. So, the too cold miss of 4 HDD on the week ago run will verify even further off once 11/23-30 actuals come in. SMH. Fake extreme GFS/GEFS cold never ends!