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My vote largely came down based on my belief that trump is a serial sexual assaulter and dishonest man to his core. I can't vote for a man who brags about what he has and teach my son to treat women with respect. I can't vote for him and tell my son not to be a cheater. I can't vote for him and tell my son not to lie. There is zero to emulate from this man. Voting for him and then claiming its for his policies would be like me telling my son all off those despicable behaviors are ok if the person has what I perceive as "good" policies.

We have to teach our kids by showing them the way not simply telling them the way while we do something differently.

If you’re going to not vote for someone who lies then you’ll never vote for any politician out there. The way they rise to power is by lying, manipulating and deceiving their way into those roles. I have a friend who is closely connected with various political fields and he said its shocking how much of that goes on. Also it’s easy to look at various politicians records and find plenty of lies they make. Some do it more than others, cover it up better, etc but politicians are good at lying and manipulating.

I’ll teach my sons not to pattern their lives after any politician, Hollywood Star, friend they make, or anyone else they see in this world but to pattern their life after Jesus. I can vote for Trump, point out his issues and tell my son that you don’t want to emulate these traits of his but here’s why I supported him. It’s a different view we have on the issue but that’s where I stand.
 
All politicians are evil and sick. They sale their souls to get elected. Trump is evil and Biden is not? Lol. You think the way Biden touches little girls and hugs and touches them all over is normal? Actions speak loud. Trump is sick in many ways but Biden is sick also. Biden is just a stepping stone for the liberal vp he will pick. He makes it maybe 6 month to a year. Then she takes over. This election is not about who’s more of a Christian. It’s do you want capitalism or socialism. This discussion that Trump has no actions resembling the Bible is sad. No one knows what he does at night or behind the scenes. No one knows his heart except Trump himself and God. Shame on Christians judging him when most of what you hear is media. I don’t agree with his actions but this man has been attacked more than any other president. From day one he never had a chance. Yet people that voted for him and support him are called names and made fun of and now we are not Christians standing up for what is right. Whatever. He spews hate but the liberals spew it just as much. This reminds me of Luke chapter 18. The priest stood on corner of street yelling. Where the priest said I am a better man because I’m not like that man God. The other man was in his house praying and asking for forgiveness. Who did God find favor with? Not the priest. Trump may confess his sins often. It’s not anyone else’s business. That’s the problem with many Christians. The holier than you attitude.
 
My vote largely came down based on my belief that trump is a serial sexual assaulter and dishonest man to his core. I can't vote for a man who brags about what he has and teach my son to treat women with respect. I can't vote for him and tell my son not to be a cheater. I can't vote for him and tell my son not to lie. There is zero to emulate from this man. Voting for him and then claiming its for his policies would be like me telling my son all off those despicable behaviors are ok if the person has what I perceive as "good" policies.

We have to teach our kids by showing them the way not simply telling them the way while we do something differently.
And Biden is most likely a serial cheater, rapes ladies and most likely kids also. Biden is no better.
 
If you’re going to not vote for someone who lies then you’ll never vote for any politician out there. The way they rise to power is by lying, manipulating and deceiving their way into those roles. I have a friend who is closely connected with various political fields and he said its shocking how much of that goes on. Also it’s easy to look at various politicians records and find plenty of lies they make. Some do it more than others, cover it up better, etc but politicians are good at lying and manipulating.

I’ll teach my sons not to pattern their lives after any politician, Hollywood Star, friend they make, or anyone else they see in this world but to pattern their life after Jesus. I can vote for Trump, point out his issues and tell my son that you don’t want to emulate these traits of his but here’s why I supported him. It’s a different view we have on the issue but that’s where I stand.

There is political lying that we all know is there then there is trump level lying and it's in a league of it's own with it's own agenda.
 
This is in general as the post from Snow got me thinking about my own conversations surrounding Trump with my son who is now 17....

I think at the end of the day telling your children that Trump is bad for all these reasons but still supporting him sends a bad and confusing message, its shows that a person can lie, cheat, steal and treat his fellow man as total garbage and still have people vote for him.....its teaching them that actions do not have consequences. We are teaching them that being evil and malicious can be rewarded.....they look to us to set the example.

Since I am not a Christian I will leave why supporting Trump isn't Christian to the experts ( looking at you Poimen) and again I understand that some of you see it as a lesser of two evils but it seems to me that from a Christian standpoint there is no wiggle room here because of the letter beside a name or the policy they promote....that should not be grounds for looking the other way IMO and its why I don't support Trump, he simply is not the kind of man I can with a clear conscience support or vote for. Maybe this religious part of it belongs in the religious thread as we are blurring the lines a bit.
 
There's a distinct difference between being a silent voter and going out there and being rah rah, pro Trump every chance you get. I recognize that our two party system forces us (realistically) to choose between the lesser of two evils. In 2016 I was a reluctant, yet silent, voter for the president. But I just cannot go there again. Every time I think about it my conscience tells me no. Sadly, I believe he goes on acting this way because he knows that he has the evangelical vote regardless of his behavior. That, to me, is the saddest part of all of this. For me, political expediency is not worth my conscience.
So, who are you voting for? I am sure every candidate has some flaw that makes us want to vomit. I will vote for Trump again because of Pence. Plain and simple.
 
It’s comical that some think Biden is not a liar, cheater, child molester, rapes ladies, racist and more. He and Trump are both sick. Still back to capitalism and socialism.
 
There is political lying that we all know is there then there is trump level lying and it's in a league of it's own with it's own agenda.

Lying is lying, whether it's "political" or "Trump level" it is still lying.

Something else to keep in mind, the media bias against Trump is indeed real. The level of negative coverage and focus on things about him vs the good things he's done is astounding. Prior to the coronavirus for example you rarely if ever heard anything mentioned about the economy. If you did it was a brief mention and then onto something like impeachment, Kavanaugh, etc. Here's some samples.

"For its report, the Media Research Center did a lot of visual spadework. It viewed some 1,007 evening news stories about the Trump White House on ABC, CBS and NBC from June 1 to Sept. 30. That's the equivalent of about 32.7 hours of coverage, by TV standards an eternity of news time.

What they found was, as Trump himself might say, sad: "Over the summer, the broadcast networks have continued to pound Donald Trump and his team with the most hostile coverage of a president in TV news history — 92% negative, vs. just 8% positive." Over the four months the MRC watched network TV for all of us, less than 1% of the coverage was on the economy. To be more precise, it was 0.7% of the entire coverage, or 14 minutes." Link

"In the first 100 days since House Democrats began their impeachment push on September 24, ABC, CBS and NBC have aggressively aided the effort. A Media Research Center analysis finds the Big Three evening newscasts have battered the President with 93% negative coverage and promoted impeachment at the expense of nearly all other Trump news." Link

"The Pew Research Center, in a content analysis of the early days of the Trump presidency, found that 62 percent of the coverage was negative and only 5 percent was positive. In contrast, President Barack Obama's coverage in early 2009 was 42 percent positive and 20 percent negative, the study said. Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush had higher negative than positive coverage early in their administrations, but not nearly to Trump's degree. Clinton had 28 percent negative coverage and 27 percent positive in 1993, while Bush had 28 percent negative and 22 percent positive in 2001." Link
 
So, who are you voting for? I am sure every candidate has some flaw that makes us want to vomit. I will vote for Trump again because of Pence. Plain and simple.

Not all claim to be a Bible-believing Christian and behave like a complete pagan. That's the difference here, and as a follower of Jesus that is of more concern to me than political expediency. Jesus of course reserved his strongest condemnations for such people.
 
This is in general as the post from Snow got me thinking about my own conversations surrounding Trump with my son who is now 17....

I think at the end of the day telling your children that Trump is bad for all these reasons but still supporting him sends a bad and confusing message, its shows that a person can lie, cheat, steal and treat his fellow man as total garbage and still have people vote for him.....its teaching them that actions do not have consequences. We are teaching them that being evil and malicious can be rewarded.....they look to us to set the example.

Since I am not a Christian I will leave why supporting Trump isn't Christian to the experts ( looking at you Poimen) and again I understand that some of you see it as a lesser of two evils but it seems to me that from a Christian standpoint there is no wiggle room here because of the letter beside a name or the policy they promote....that should not be grounds for looking the other way IMO and its why I don't support Trump, he simply is not the kind of man I can with a clear conscience support or vote for. Maybe this religious part of it belongs in the religious thread as we are blurring the lines a bit.

I don't think it will send a bad message at all if constructed within a certain framework like I previously described. You mention his actions do not have consequences but to me they do, perhaps not in the sense that you would want to see (him not being president). From a Christian point of view for example, I would tell my son that even if he never faces consequences here on earth (a concept the Bible deals with) he will face God as judge which is something far worse than any "justice" man could do to him. At the same time I can tell my son how even though I disagree with certain actions Trump takes or comments he makes his policies are what will affect the lives of millions of Americans and those policies are in my view good and many of them align with things I believe the Bible teaches or that I hold to personally outside the Bible.

There is a book written on the subject of these types of situations called "Politics according to the Bible" by Wayne Grudem and it deals with these types of ethical issues. FWIW, I am also in the ministry and my degree in college was in the field of pastoral theology. I don't consider myself an authority on the subject but it is something I have thought through and researched before coming to the conclusion that I hold to now.

For me at the end of the day it comes down to who will realistically be the leader of our nation and which policies are better or the lesser of two evils. I see the benefits of a Trump presidency bringing with it a solid economy (prior to the virus), judges and SC nominees who would rule by the constitution vs pushing certain agendas, strong border security, lower taxes, freedom of religion, etc. all worth voting for him in 2016 and again in 2020. For me my conscience would prevent me from writing for a 3rd party candidate who has 0 shot at winning, and if Biden wins I know that not only does he have questionable character issues but he also has policies that are completely against what I believe, especially if he has a far left VP pick. It's not ideal but it is the hand we are dealt and why I will be voting for Trump this fall. With Trump his policies were clearly better than the other alternative imo. I don't expect others to agree with me or hold the same views but this is how I see things.
 
Not all claim to be a Bible-believing Christian and behave like a complete pagan. That's the difference here, and as a follower of Jesus that is of more concern to me than political expediency. Jesus of course reserved his strongest condemnations for such people.
Well Clinton claimed same and went to church. Most politicians claim they are believers. Again voting for capitalism or socialism. If socialism wins then eventually churches will be limited in what they can preach just like some cities are saying China virus or Wuhan virus are hate speech. So be ready to not preach about infidelity or abortion being wrong.
 
Lying is lying, whether it's "political" or "Trump level" it is still lying.

Something else to keep in mind, the media bias against Trump is indeed real. The level of negative coverage and focus on things about him vs the good things he's done is astounding. Prior to the coronavirus for example you rarely if ever heard anything mentioned about the economy. If you did it was a brief mention and then onto something like impeachment, Kavanaugh, etc. Here's some samples.

"For its report, the Media Research Center did a lot of visual spadework. It viewed some 1,007 evening news stories about the Trump White House on ABC, CBS and NBC from June 1 to Sept. 30. That's the equivalent of about 32.7 hours of coverage, by TV standards an eternity of news time.

What they found was, as Trump himself might say, sad: "Over the summer, the broadcast networks have continued to pound Donald Trump and his team with the most hostile coverage of a president in TV news history — 92% negative, vs. just 8% positive." Over the four months the MRC watched network TV for all of us, less than 1% of the coverage was on the economy. To be more precise, it was 0.7% of the entire coverage, or 14 minutes." Link

"In the first 100 days since House Democrats began their impeachment push on September 24, ABC, CBS and NBC have aggressively aided the effort. A Media Research Center analysis finds the Big Three evening newscasts have battered the President with 93% negative coverage and promoted impeachment at the expense of nearly all other Trump news." Link

"The Pew Research Center, in a content analysis of the early days of the Trump presidency, found that 62 percent of the coverage was negative and only 5 percent was positive. In contrast, President Barack Obama's coverage in early 2009 was 42 percent positive and 20 percent negative, the study said. Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush had higher negative than positive coverage early in their administrations, but not nearly to Trump's degree. Clinton had 28 percent negative coverage and 27 percent positive in 1993, while Bush had 28 percent negative and 22 percent positive in 2001." Link

All this media bias stuff is meaningless because Trump actually is saying and doing all this vile stupid stuff, the MSM isn't holding a gun to Trump's head demanding he act like a ass and provide them with limitless ammo he does that all on his own. Trump came out of the gate acting like a complete asshat, not only that he painted the MSM as the enemy, Trump gets what he deserves from the media. This entire POV would hold a lot more premise if Trump wasn't actually guilty of all the stuff they go after him for.
 
In other news, Democrats are alarmed at the prospect of a potential quick rebound in the economy from the virus which could actually help Trump's chances this fall. The alarming statement came from Jason Furman who just so happens to be a Harvard professor and Obama admin alum.

"We are about to see the best economic data we’ve seen in the history of this country,” he said.

The former Cabinet secretaries and Federal Reserve chairs in the Zoom boxes were confused, though some of the Republicans may have been newly relieved and some of the Democrats suddenly concerned.

“Everyone looked puzzled and thought I had misspoken,” Furman said in an interview. Instead of forecasting a prolonged Depression-level economic catastrophe, Furman laid out a detailed case for why the months preceding the November election could offer Trump the chance to brag — truthfully — about the most explosive monthly employment numbers and gross domestic product growth ever.

Since the Zoom call, Furman has been making the same case to anyone who will listen, especially the close-knit network of Democratic wonks who have traversed the Clinton and Obama administrations together, including top members of the Biden campaign.

Furman’s counterintuitive pitch has caused some Democrats, especially Obama alumni, around Washington to panic. “This is my big worry,” said a former Obama White House official who is still close to the former president. Asked about the level of concern among top party officials, he said, “It’s high — high, high, high, high.

 
All this media bias stuff is meaningless because Trump actually is saying and doing all this vile stupid stuff, the MSM isn't holding a gun to Trump's head demanding he act like a ass and provide them with limitless ammo he does that all on his own. Trump came out of the gate acting like a complete asshat, not only that he painted the MSM as the enemy, Trump gets what he deserves from the media. This entire POV would hold a lot more premise if Trump wasn't actually guilty of all the stuff they go after him for.

The point of the quotes is that in 33 hours of watching various news networks they spent an entire 14 mins on the economy. The rest of the time was devoted to impeachment, Russia, Kav, & N Korea and almost all of it was negative. That's clearly biased when you don't focus on positive aspects like a solid economy, lower taxes, etc that Trump was also doing during that time. You can't tell me that 14 minutes out of 33 hours focused on something positive like the economy isn't biased strongly against him. A more balanced news media would highlight what they perceive as issues/negatives AND spend decent amounts of time focusing on positive developments like the economy or other areas. Bias is selecting several specific topics and spending all your coverage on those and portraying the person entirely good or bad in that coverage. The job of the media should be to report the facts and remove journalistic bias and political slant from their news articles. Unfortunately real journalism is pretty much dead and most news sites are incredibly biased one way or another.
 
Well Clinton claimed same and went to church. Most politicians claim they are believers. Again voting for capitalism or socialism. If socialism wins then eventually churches will be limited in what they can preach just like some cities are saying China virus or Wuhan virus are hate speech. So be ready to not preach about infidelity or abortion being wrong.

And I did not vote for him. Why then should I vote for Trump?Why would any evangelical vote for Trump when they condemned Clinton for the very same behavior (sexual sin)? Evangelicals went so far as to say Clinton was unfit for office. But somehow its ok to vote for Trump? That’s the height of hypocrisy if you ask me.
 
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